Your ESTP shadow.

My ESTP shadow was out mowing the lawn last weekend... oh wait! That was my ESTP father. (We're neighbors and if my lawn gets shabby, he's over here mowing it.) :P

My ESTP shadow only surfaces if I am put into the most unbelievably difficult social situations in which I must accomplish something for whatever reason, even if it is just to not look like a total idiot.
 
Very much so, the stress shadow gets me in some serious trouble, not good at all.
 
I get very E & P whenever I'm with friends. My full-fledged shadow only appears rarely, usually when I'm backed into a corner.
 
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So have you guys ever experienced your ESTP side?
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Oh yes. All the time. It brought me here to this forum actually. I've been looking for healthier ways to channel that ESTP shadow. I have quite a few friends who are triathletes, runners, paramedics, LEOs, and firefighters, with quite a few ESTPs in the bunch. I look at everything positive about them and see if there are positive ways that I can work with this deep part of myself that I often don't understand or perhaps even fear at times. Sure, you can indulge your shadow with negativity or unproductive habits. Aren't we all a bit guilty of that? But where there is dark, there is always light, if you look for it.
 
Definitely! It led me to a lot of confusion at first. But now I'm trying to figure out how to bring the two halves together for peace and harmony of a whole self.

To argue theories of the shadow. I posit that the reverse order of one's cognitive functions is a more apt description of the shadow.

Secondly, I believe that whomever's theory it was that says that our shadow is the ENFP. I would disagree. I would say that is the Anima/Animus. And the same or similar theory also suggests ISTJ, I would say is the Critical Parent.

[I'll post my theory in a new thread. I wish to discuss it further]

Also, I would say that it is somewhat false to say that the shadow is a negative thing. The shadow is an opposite thing. If you're typically angry, but slipping into your shadow's skin you feel content. If you are often critical of others, in ESTP mode, you might not even care about those details. Etc.
 
The ESTP Shadow appears every few days. That's when my calm, left-brained Ni Nerd shuts down and insists that I dance around, listen to music, spend money, criticize, and get angry. :D

And "regularly" engaging in those activities at healthy levels doesn't help. The ESTP Shadow just shows up. So I just expect those times to happen and moderate my excessive actions. Actually, some of those actions only are or seem "excessive" because my lower functions need to be engaged at a new level on more than just a childlike level. Se generates the ultimate goals for INJs.
 
I never become magically extroverted under stress. But sometimes I drink too much or waste money on clothes I don't need. I do see it as my dark side and when it happens I am impulsively out of control, there's no moderating possible. Been lucky so far, haven't gotten into bad trouble from this yet, such as credit card debt or hurting myself. I sort of accept my shadow, it makes me human and it's not going away so you might as well accept it, the way I see it.
 
Maybe that's what's been going on. I love listening to ESXP performers because it often helps me release some suppressed urge that I don't feel like is there UNTIL I'm listening to them. They just make me feel free, and want to live crazily (there are times where all I want to do is get super drunk [though not to the point of unconsciousness..just almost,] scream, dance, have really wild sex, and ignore any inhibitions in general. I just want to lose complete control. But I never really have done anything even close to that except with an ENTP guy I was dating. I feel like I'd have to know the person I'm with extremely well to show any wild-side there is to me.) And there are times I wish I could go up on stage and act totally "insane."

I've even started writing raps which have generally been pretty violent content-wise. But I think the reason for that is, I have a lot of anger I don't talk about, and I use rap to let it out. They haven't been so much about suppressed desire as they have been about things I want to change. However, I go about spitting verses in a really loud way.

It's odd because I don't ever feel trapped, really..I mean, I'm not unhappy being an INFJ. But maybe it's just my shadow telling me I don't let it come out as much as it needs to. I don't know. Not totally convinced : / If anyone has any more information on this, I'd love to listen.
 
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There are a million ways inferior Se could manifest, and on the surface, it can look completely different in one INFJ than it does in another. Once you understand the underlying mechanism, you can see the pattern, see what they all have in common.

But maybe I'm just griping because I personally can't relate to shadow ESTP descriptions.

In the grip of Se, I usually become unproductive and unmotivated, and spend a lot of time daydreaming about material things. I don't act impulsively. Becoming mentally focused on material things doesn't necessarily mean you're going to act a certain way.
 
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palomica26.2 said:
Oh yes. All the time. It brought me here to this forum actually. I've been looking for healthier ways to channel that ESTP shadow. I have quite a few friends who are triathletes, runners, paramedics, LEOs, and firefighters, with quite a few ESTPs in the bunch. I look at everything positive about them and see if there are positive ways that I can work with this deep part of myself that I often don't understand or perhaps even fear at times. Sure, you can indulge your shadow with negativity or unproductive habits. Aren't we all a bit guilty of that? But where there is dark, there is always light, if you look for it.
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Whoa. It's a shame she's not here anymore. I'll have to read my thread on my teenage years again. SHIT!

Your shadow as INFJ
ESTP

ESTPs are like ISTPs in that they sometimes turn into wailing mockeries of adult people. But ESTPs do not do it because the screams echo in the hollowness of their soul and they can pretend that the abyss is responding to them, no – the ESTPs do it because they think it’s fun. It’s what they live for. They’ll carry a gun into a bank just because it’s fun to scare the poor innocents, they’ll stand by the roadside and flash motorcyclists so they can watch them crash, nothing is out of limits for an ESTP.

They are usually dumb as rocks. Which is good, because the ESTPs with brains are really fucking scary. The ESTP animal is the raccoon. Which may seem cute or fun to you unless you’ve met one.


Mine as INTJ
ESFP

ESFPs are the kind of people who use the word ‘kegger’ or ‘iced’. They get drunk on one beer and proceed to feel that all their actions are totally excused. I mean, a drunk person can’t be responsible for their own actions, right?

Even if they don’t drink, the ESFP is the classic insensitive asshole. They’re just more outrageous if you feed them alcohol. An ESFP makes dead baby jokes around abortion clinics, and your mom jokes at your mom’s funeral. They will not stay at the funeral for very long, but they will steal one of the bottles of funeral wine and proceed to get shitfaced on it.

If you’ve ever stuck your foot inside a boot full of piss, or cleaned up puke stains from the ceiling, chances are you’ve interacted with an ESFP. Their animal is the gorilla, I think. Or the orangutang. Some kind of ape, whatever.

Relationships with ESFPs can be tricky, but they might work out. Provided you’re not into communication or honesty or something. It’s hard to be honest when you can’t remember what happened last week.
 
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Whenever I need to, I can become a much ruder, strategic and more confident person. I don't do it a lot, and when I do it, it's mostly for professional reasons. Like if I'm confronting someone politically, or someone that I believed to have wronged me. I once got into a yelling fight with another social democrat because she was more leftist than I was, and she accused me of being conservative. I mean, we talked for a long time before we yelled, but it got heated. Usually I am the calmest, most gentle person on the streets, but if I'm engaged in something, I can get intense.
 
ezra said:
Whenever I need to, I can become a much ruder, strategic and more confident person. I don't do it a lot, and when I do it, it's mostly for professional reasons. Like if I'm confronting someone politically, or someone that I believed to have wronged me. I once got into a yelling fight with another social democrat because she was more leftist than I was, and she accused me of being conservative. I mean, we talked for a long time before we yelled, but it got heated. Usually I am the calmest, most gentle person on the streets, but if I'm engaged in something, I can get intense.
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"Se represents the raw, animalistic, aggressive, spontaneous hunger for the reality of pure, literal sensory input which Ni dominants take so much care to lock away and hide from others as much as they can. As a tertiary function for ENJs, Se has a much more helpful use, because it's under their control enough that they can use it to show others they care about appearances and trends (for Te- or Fe-oriented business goals), and, if necessary, to subtly imply threats of brute force if the adversary cannot muster up the discipline to respect the ENJ's polite requests for obedience.

But as an inferior function, few INJs learn to command Se to a degree that it becomes a substantial part of their regular healthy cognition. Its literal focus on precisely what is immediately obvious is something many INJs spend their entire lives working hard to eliminate in themselves, insistent that such shallow focus is beneath the sophistication of their constant work to see all the less obvious, hidden interpretations where Ni feels at home. But Se is still there...lurking under the surface, waiting to boil over. You don't want to be around an INFJ when it does.

Ideally, inferior Se should eventually help the INFJ to stop looking for deeper meaning in places where it's neither intended nor useful, to appreciate the more immediate value in that which is tangible and real to others (even though she herself may see it as trivially insubstantial), and to maintain a degree of spontaneity in terms of ability to pay attention to and imitate what others around her see as current and worthy of attention. Sometimes this is the only way the INFJ can get anyone to pay enough attention to what he's saying to make any real noticeable impact or difference in the world--and that's something most INFJs struggle their whole lives to feel like they are doing."


Have a look at this one.
"Inferior Se in NJ's makes them be resentful and dejecting of materialistic, superficial aspects of reality. Periodically, however, they may crave to be around people who are more in tune with the physical world and truly enjoy it, something that the INFJ him/herself has a lot of trouble with. They may crave physical experiences that their higher order functions may not approve of. For instance if Se wants to branch out and see the physical world (much like Ne), but your Ni-values don't approve of this seeing it as pointless waste of time. This can be a cause of a lot of stress and contradiction. A lot of people who have inferior Se often say things like "sometimes I wish I could just let my experiential side come out", or when they get pushed over the edge they might react in very physically expressive ways. (ISFJ's might conclude a similar thing but for vastly different reasons). In contrast, an INFP with inferior might have episodes when they become extremely negative and judgmental, lashing out at their friends with biting specificity."

That's the last of it. Enjoy.
 
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camomile said:
"Se represents the raw, animalistic, aggressive, spontaneous hunger for the reality of pure, literal sensory input which Ni dominants take so much care to lock away and hide from others as much as they can. As a tertiary function for ENJs, Se has a much more helpful use, because it's under their control enough that they can use it to show others they care about appearances and trends (for Te- or Fe-oriented business goals), and, if necessary, to subtly imply threats of brute force if the adversary cannot muster up the discipline to respect the ENJ's polite requests for obedience.

But as an inferior function, few INJs learn to command Se to a degree that it becomes a substantial part of their regular healthy cognition. Its literal focus on precisely what is immediately obvious is something many INJs spend their entire lives working hard to eliminate in themselves, insistent that such shallow focus is beneath the sophistication of their constant work to see all the less obvious, hidden interpretations where Ni feels at home. But Se is still there...lurking under the surface, waiting to boil over. You don't want to be around an INFJ when it does.

Ideally, inferior Se should eventually help the INFJ to stop looking for deeper meaning in places where it's neither intended nor useful, to appreciate the more immediate value in that which is tangible and real to others (even though she herself may see it as trivially insubstantial), and to maintain a degree of spontaneity in terms of ability to pay attention to and imitate what others around her see as current and worthy of attention. Sometimes this is the only way the INFJ can get anyone to pay enough attention to what he's saying to make any real noticeable impact or difference in the world--and that's something most INFJs struggle their whole lives to feel like they are doing."


Have a look at this one.
"Inferior Se in NJ's makes them be resentful and dejecting of materialistic, superficial aspects of reality. Periodically, however, they may crave to be around people who are more in tune with the physical world and truly enjoy it, something that the INFJ him/herself has a lot of trouble with. They may crave physical experiences that their higher order functions may not approve of. For instance if Se wants to branch out and see the physical world (much like Ne), but your Ni-values don't approve of this seeing it as pointless waste of time. This can be a cause of a lot of stress and contradiction. A lot of people who have inferior Se often say things like "sometimes I wish I could just let my experiential side come out", or when they get pushed over the edge they might react in very physically expressive ways. (ISFJ's might conclude a similar thing but for vastly different reasons). In contrast, an INFP with inferior might have episodes when they become extremely negative and judgmental, lashing out at their friends with biting specificity."

That's the last of it. Enjoy.
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This makes so much sense! thank you
 
My best friend irl is an ESTP. She follows me everywhere.
 
Wow, yeah. This is a big issue for me. I do maybe all of those things listed. I don't know about socializing, though. Small talk, I don't know how to do. It's just exhausting.
 
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