Your position on "our troops"

[Jill Hives]

I agree with what I think you are saying here. If you dont support what the government is doing then why do you keep paying them? Supposedly that is what America is all about, right? At the end of the day you are funding the wars, the President, and every other shitty thing going on locally and federally.

Fear, is why.

People get thrown into federal prison for not paying their taxes.

I know you aren't dumb, and you know this already.

My only point was that it is this easy, but it also isn't. If you are protecting your family, you go along to get along.

It's a huge commitment and many aren't ready for that. You have to wager your own life, and the livelihood of your children, when you stand up to the government in this way.

 

[muir]

I don't think the soldiers should be blindly supported in what they do; what they do should be objectively assesed and then support or dissent should be given accordingly

I do however think the soldiers should be given support in coming to terms with what they've done when they return from what they are doing

In the UK the whole ''support the troops'' hysteria is created and sustained by the tabloid newspapers

The words you will hear repeatedly from these papers are: ''our heroes'', which apparently, according to the newspapers should be a applied to anyone who puts on a uniform

To me a hero is someone who questions whether or not something is the right thing to do and then does the right thing even when its the hardest thing to do

Patriotic fervour has been drummed up by the press for a long time and it clouds peoples judgement. Young folk who haven't yet had a chance to learn the lay of the land are easily seduced by the patriotic fervour

There's a good book by the most decorated soldier in the British army, Andy McNab called ''Seven Troop''.

He has written many books which no doubt encourage and excite many young readers dreaming of military service but 7 Troop is very insightful. It's about the group he was in which were parachute specialists. They were involved in the troubles in ireland and the book talks about the following effects on their mental health. Many of the troop later took their own lives, unable to come to terms with how they had lived their lives

The SAS are always portrayed in the British press as James Bond type supermen but the book tells another story. it also shows how the military likes to recruit young people who are looking for a family as McNab was (he was an orphan)

Interestingly there is a line in the latest James Bond film ''Skyfall'' where M says that ''orphans make the best recruits''

Another book i found interesting was ''Jarhead'' written by an ex-marine that talks about how films that are supposdely anti-war are lapped up as a form of war pornography by young recruits

The young think about danger ''it will never happen to me'' and that is one reason why the army likes to recruit young people. The other key reason is that young people havn't had a chance to evolve their perceptions and question what they are told by the media so they are more willing to buy into illusions that the corporate media weave such as that they are fighting for ''democracy'' or against ''evil'' etc

The corporate media however are part of the military industrial complex that will profit from the wars that the short sighted young folk will fight and die in

Here's a clip of another ex-SAS soldier Ben Griffin speaking out against the Iraq war at the world against war demo; he reads from the testimony of a US vietnam vet:

[video=youtube;Mt6tV2cf4W4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt6tV2cf4W4[/video]

 

[muir]

Fear, is why.

People get thrown into federal prison for not paying their taxes.

I know you aren't dumb, and you know this already.

My only point was that it is this easy, but it also isn't. If you are protecting your family, you go along to get along.

It's a huge commitment and many aren't ready for that. You have to wager your own life, and the livelihood of your children, when you stand up to the government in this way.

Yeah its diabolical how they make us complicit in their power games

The power elite created a process called 'neoliberalism' and came to an agreement called ''the washington consensus''.

This process was a way of structuring society in order to move the wealth from the many to the few. It was a process that they exported to other countries through intimidation, force and bribery. because they control powerful organisations such as the IMF and the world bank as well as the central banks through the Bank for International Settlements (the central bank of the central banks) they have been able to use neoliberalism as a stick to beat the peoples of the world with

This is why there is grinding poverty around the world and why we are seeing our society becoming increasingly imbalanced

Unfortunately because the power elite control government they also control the military and will use it as a last resort to enforce their will (after trying threats, assassinations, sanctions, coups etc)

Neoliberalism is a way for the power elite to take risks that they can profit from while passing the risk onto the taxpayer

A perfect example of this is WAR. The corporations owned by members of the power elite profit from the wars and the costs of the wars whether financial or in blood are passed onto the taxpayers

Another example of neoliberalism is the recent banking crisis where the bankers profitted until things went wrong then passed the losses onto the taxpayers who had to ''bailout'' the banks

In all these schemes it is always the same people who benefit (the power elite) and it is always the same people who pay the price (the taxpayers)

 

[tfg345i4u5lw]

I agree with what I think you are saying here. If you dont support what the government is doing then why do you keep paying them? Supposedly that is what America is all about, right? At the end of the day you are funding the wars, the President, and every other shitty thing going on locally and federally.

That is what I was saying. If we really cared we would do something about it. The problem is that as a country we have no faith in a higher power. So the idealism necessary to override the primitive desire to put yourself and your offspring before others isn't there. Until that idealism exists within the heart of the American people nothing will change and we will continue to be pawns in the system.

 

[MindYourHead]

Since taxes came up in the conversation, this week marks the 100th anniversary of the passage of the 16th amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which made it legal for the U.S. federal government to tax an individuals income.

 

[muir]

That is what I was saying. If we really cared we would do something about it. The problem is that as a country we have no faith in a higher power. So the idealism necessary to override the primitive desire to put yourself and your offspring before others isn't there. Until that idealism exists within the heart of the American people nothing will change and we will continue to be pawns in the system.

The difficulty is that if you alone do this you will not even dent their war machine

These kind of actions have to be done in large numbers and that requires people to be organised

As the 2007-8 crisis deepened there was an attempt by a French footballer called Eric Cantona to try and publicise a movement which is all about people taking their money out of the banks that were at the centre of the crisis (and all the scandals that have since seen the light and are continuing to be revealed) and to encourage them to put that money into ethical banks or credit unions

Here's a clip of his campaign:

[video=youtube;SRNRiFkCdSA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRNRiFkCdSA[/video]

I posted the video around the internet when it came out and i had already moved my money long before it came out but sadly the response from people was not big enough to close the banks

The movement still continues though: http://www.moveyourmoney.org.uk/

and in the states: http://moveyourmoneyproject.org/

There are many other campaigns as well for example the end the fed campaign: http://endthefedusa.ning.com/

Max keisers buy silver crash J.P.Morgan campaign: http://newwaveslave.com/2010/11/crash-j-p-morgan-buy-silver/

There's many groups out there trying different imaginative things but the problem they will come up against again and again is ignorance. Many people are simply not aware of who is responsible for crashing the economy and as a result don't yet have the political will to make changes in their life

Bill Still's films: ''The Money Masters'' and ''the secrets of Oz'' explain who is behind the crisis and he also presents his solution for the crisis

I think if one person acts it makes very little difference, but if many act it can make a big difference. The challenge then becomes not only to make changes in your life so that you can be a part of the solution rather than the problem but to spread awareness so that more people can also become part of the solution

We need to reject their banks, we need to reject their political parties, we need to reject their corporate media, we need to reject their lies, we need to reject their products and their corporations, we need to reject their wars, we need to reject their GM foods etc

If enough people do all these things we can drastically change things but most people are still listening to the corporate media for answers and that is simply pro-corporatocracy propaganda

 

[Lerxst]

I've been seriously thinking about not paying my taxes this year and just taking whatever punishments they give me. @Lerxst are you down to do that with me? I'm 100% serious too.

Seriously, let's start a group on the forum. We are "idealists" right????

But I'm in favor of taxes and the need for them. I want my streets to be paved, the power (in some areas) to be on, an unemployment check if I were to get laid off, social security when I retire, public schools for my kids, state colleges for a cheaper alternative to private college, etc. That's money well spent, in my books - my tax money comes back to help me and the rest of society.

Tax money spent on military expenses to fight wars unjustly declared to defend an area not in our own country does not serve myself, or any other people in our country well in any way, shape or form (except the troops, who draw the salaries from it). That same budget spent on our education and healthcare would come back and benefit society tenfold... so I want to pay my taxes. I just want them to actually use it for something worthwhile.

 

[TheDoctor]

But I'm in favor of taxes and the need for them. I want my streets to be paved, the power (in some areas) to be on, an unemployment check if I were to get laid off, social security when I retire, public schools for my kids, state colleges for a cheaper alternative to private college, etc. That's money well spent, in my books - my tax money comes back to help me and the rest of society.

Tax money spent on military expenses to fight wars unjustly declared to defend an area not in our own country does not serve myself, or any other people in our country well in any way, shape or form (except the troops, who draw the salaries from it). That same budget spent on our education and healthcare would come back and benefit society tenfold... so I want to pay my taxes. I just want them to actually use it for something worthwhile.

I would like to point out that even if the US was't fighting a war I would still be getting paid.

in my opinion, there is no need for an income tax. A consumption tax would work just fine. Also, rich people would still pay more in taxes because they would still be consuming more.

 

[Stu]

Our duty to the men and women who put themselves in harms way is best performed by us diligently carrying out our responsibilities as citizens. Every American who is eligible should be involved in the political process. Service men and women swear an oath to defend the constitution of the United States. If more folks paid attention to what was going on, we would be deploying fewer soldiers (in my opinion).

Support of our troops should be a lifelong obligation of the Government.

 

[sprinkles]

I took the 6th option because I don't like being coached or fed my answers via multiple choice.

Edit: I will expound on this by saying that they, their conspicuous supporters, and conspicuous detractors are stuck in samsara just like me and most other people.

 

[tfg345i4u5lw]

But I'm in favor of taxes and the need for them. I want my streets to be paved, the power (in some areas) to be on, an unemployment check if I were to get laid off, social security when I retire, public schools for my kids, state colleges for a cheaper alternative to private college, etc. That's money well spent, in my books - my tax money comes back to help me and the rest of society.

Tax money spent on military expenses to fight wars unjustly declared to defend an area not in our own country does not serve myself, or any other people in our country well in any way, shape or form (except the troops, who draw the salaries from it). That same budget spent on our education and healthcare would come back and benefit society tenfold... so I want to pay my taxes. I just want them to actually use it for something worthwhile.

100% true. It sucks though that we have to feel guilty about paying taxes. Sometimes I think about not paying them. Or not paying whatever percentage goes to the military.

 

[bamf]

Consumption taxes unfairly target the poor. If you can hardly make ends meet as it is, all of a sudden you're paying more in taxes at the counter for the food you need to live. If you're well off, it's a drop in the bucket. Flat taxes are never fair in a system that is titled at its foundation.

 

[the]

That is what I was saying. If we really cared we would do something about it. The problem is that as a country we have no faith in a higher power. So the idealism necessary to override the primitive desire to put yourself and your offspring before others isn't there. Until that idealism exists within the heart of the American people nothing will change and we will continue to be pawns in the system.

Do you grand, positive change will happen without aid of our countries belief in a higher power? I dont tjink it will.

 

[Colt]

I've been seriously thinking about not paying my taxes this year and just taking whatever punishments they give me. [MENTION=2890]Lerxst[/MENTION] are you down to do that with me? I'm 100% serious too.

Seriously, let's start a group on the forum. We are "idealists" right????

If you work for someone else, you have already paid your taxes. If you work for yourself, well, good luck.

 

[tfg345i4u5lw]

If you work for someone else, you have already paid your taxes. If you work for yourself, well, good luck.

I was just trying to make a point that the citizens are really the ones responsible for everything, not the military. It is our country. I went about it in a weird way but that was basically what I was saying. And I got annoyed because it's stupid to use a poll to ask opinions about a group of 1000's of individuals.

 

[tfg345i4u5lw]

Do you grand, positive change will happen without aid of our countries belief in a higher power? I dont tjink it will.

I don't know what "do you grand" means. People don't react until it effects them directly. Sometimes belief in a higher power motivates them too. And when I say higher power, I'm not talking about just religion. I'm talking about any higher power. Having faith in fellow Americans can be a belief in a higher power.

 

[Lerxst]

I was just trying to make a point that the citizens are really the ones responsible for everything, not the military. It is our country. I went about it in a weird way but that was basically what I was saying. And I got annoyed because it's stupid to use a poll to ask opinions about a group of 1000's of individuals.

No more or less stupid than an individual or group of individuals offering special services and recognition to that same group of thousands. Think about the radio shows... "and this one is for the troops overseas" or the special seating announcements airlines give to "our armed service personnel" or that "soccer mom" driving around in a mini van with a "support our troops" sticker in the rear window. They're all voicing their opinion about that same group of thousands, only instead of 5 choices, they all choose from a pool of 1.

For some reason it's a faux pas to express any discontent for "our troops" in the form of a 3 word sticker, but it's considered honorable to express support for them in a similar fashion. Consider this poll your freedom to actually say "f** our troops" without being beaten to a bloody stump and shot by the first redneck with a gun and no sense of humor.

 

[Tin Man]

Where's the choice for "They should be butchered and turned into dog food." Oh wait this is a thread about military troops, not poor people.