Zero tolerance for bullying in school

Infjente said:
As for a replacement of the collective fear of going to hell, or that "God sees you" that has been used for social control for so long. l guess internet, globalization etc has opened for everyone to think more freely without any real risks. Since God isnt that popular anymore, at least in europe, those who are motivated by fear need something else to fear, and those who need to control the people need something else to scare people with.

:relaxed:
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The fear of God was never meant to be fear at all costs, living in constant worry. This is a misrepresentation of who God was or is. Whether or not God is popular is not as important as who He truly is and what He represents. The point of God is not about being liked or cool by everyone's standards or pleasing everyone's personal preference. He wouldn't be God if he did. A fear of God at least in the past means people had better social accountability and responsibility, and would feel some kind of guilt about their actions, rather than everyone simply feeling accountable to themselves only. A fear of God was about developing a healthy fear that those who hurt others and treat others poorly will face someone bigger than themselves, and less about God simply raining down hurt simply for being human. This fear is similar to a parent who wants a healthy fear of their authority to dissuade a sibling from harming or abusing another sibling. We are supposed to be looking out for and supporting each other. But the problem is we don't always do so, because we've learned to focus mostly on ourselves, and what affects us. Look at Cain and Abel. Regardless of whether anyone believes this story to be true, the point still remains that Cain killed his own brother, and when God confronted him, he lied and said, "I'm not my brother's keeper." When people decided they didn't have to care about or look out for each other, and put themselves first, that's when many of the rules of "control" as you refer them were applied. The Ten Commandments didn't come out thin air. They were created because people were treating each other like shit. That's why bullying should not be ok, for any reason.
 
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Gaze said:
Hope this doesn't sound too obscure, but the Peter/Wolf analogy seems to best explain this issue.

Not everyone who cries wolf has seen a wolf or been attacked by one. But if someone who is attacked by a wolf is constantly being ignored, then few townspeople will be left who can and will defend the town if a wolf goes on a rampage. Telling Peter that facing the wolf head on without support or guidance may just lead Peter to develop PTSD and become suicidal. However, ignoring the wolf doesn't change the fact that it's still there terrorizing the townspeople especially if it's constantly lurking in the shadows without any accountability. At some point, the townspeople have to say, "We have a wolf, so let's hunt, capture, and punish or reform, tame".

People need to be very careful of the idea that someone needs toughening up with their supposedly well-intention-ed "toughen up, life is hard, and you just need to get over someone bullying you". That just gives abusers, people with anger problems, or just plain douches the chance to claim they're helping someone get thicker skin with so called false versions of "tough love". Bullying is bullying. Quit calling it something else.

Last but not least, bullying among children will never end if bullying among adults continues. How can you expect children to not bully each other, when adults do it to each other everyday?
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So, the way they are doing it the bully could say the kid being bullied was doing the bullying... The kid being bullied isn't going to say anything and the teacher can't say the bully is a liar... Interesting dilemma...
 
Barkalounger said:
So, the way they are doing it the bully could say the kid being bullied was doing the bullying... The kid being bullied isn't going to say anything and the teacher can't say the bully is a liar... Interesting dilemma...
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Agree. Complicated. There should be some kind of investigation vs. "he said, she said". I do agree with those who say there should be some training so that children learn how to deal with bullies on their own but I don't think a child should have to spend their days at school proving themselves to a bully, who thinks it's their job to keep pushing the limits of how far they can go before their victim snaps or breaks. That's not sensible or safe especially in a world where mass school shootings are becoming way too common. It's great n' all to tell someone to stand up for themselves, and be assertive but a bully with issues can decide that "no, I am not taking it" is not an acceptable answer and use that justify violence. Confronting a bully without any support in a safe space, can often do more harm than good. Why should victims of bullying have to prove they're tough enough to handle the aggression of an abuser? Challenges in life are fine and good. But no one should have to face school everyday with the feeling that "I hope I survive my bully today."
 
Gaze said:
Agree. Complicated. There should be some kind of investigation vs. "he said, she said". I do agree with those who say there should be some training so that children learn how to deal with bullies on their own but I don't think a child should have to spend their days at school proving themselves to a bully, who thinks it's their job to keep pushing the limits of how far they can go before their victim snaps or breaks. That's not sensible or safe especially in a world where mass school shootings are becoming way too common. It's great n' all to tell someone to stand up for themselves, and be assertive but a bully with issues can decide that "no, I am not taking it" is not an acceptable answer and use that justify violence. Confronting a bully without any support in a safe space, can often do more harm than good. Why should victims of bullying have to prove they're tough enough to handle the aggression of an abuser? Challenges in life are fine and good. But no one should have to face school everyday with the feeling that "I hope I survive my bully today."
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True freedom is scary and it will be in the name of safety and security that they will take away your rights...
 
Barkalounger said:
True freedom is scary and it will be in the name of safety and security that they will take away your rights...
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Nothing is wrong with wanting freedom. But realize that your freedom comes with responsibility and accountability. If we're not going to be accountable for how we treat others, then yes, we need things to make us accountable. Life is not always about doing what you want, when you want, how you want it, especially if it violates other people's safety.
 
Gaze said:
Nothing is wrong with wanting freedom. But realize that your freedom comes with responsibility and accountability. If we're not going to be accountable for how we treat others, then yes, we need things to make us accountable. Life is not always about doing what you want, when you want, how you want it, especially if it violates other people's safety.
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I never claimed to have a perfect solution... I'm just watching the pendulum swing...
 
Barkalounger said:
I never claimed to have a perfect solution... I'm just watching the pendulum swing...
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I get what you're saying, but I'm sorry. Theory does not account for reality. I am not sure what you've experienced in your life, but lived reality trumps theory and observing from afar. I am not sure if you know what it's like to be fearful of what can happen in an educational, business, or social space if someone doesn't like what someone says or does. Consequences of what you say or do matter far more than your right to say or do them. We can have lovely conversations about our freedoms and rights all we want, but many people have died because someone did not respect their freedom to be safe from potential harm. People usually want to feel safe in order to feel they can be free to speak. These two things can't be separated. And to be safe, means we will have to live according to certain rules so everyone feels protected. We don't have to like those rules. The point is, if they work, and protect us from harm, then that's more important.
 
Gaze said:
I get what you're saying, but I'm sorry. Theory does not account for reality. I am not sure what you've experienced in your life, but lived reality trumps theory and observing from afar. I am not sure if you know what it's like to be fearful of what can happen in an educational, business, or social space if someone doesn't like what someone says or does. Consequences of what you say or do matter far more than your right to say or do them. We can have lovely conversations about our freedoms and rights all we want, but many people have died because someone did not respect their freedom to be safe from potential harm. People usually want to feel safe in order to feel they can be free to speak. These two things can't be separated.
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I'm not disagreeing with you on any particular point...
 
Barkalounger said:
I'm not disagreeing with you on any particular point...
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Doesn't matter. You're obviously throwing out points to get a response. Being "I'm just here watching the conversation, observing" doesn't change the fact that you are still engaging in a conversation with me with statements that subtly encourage a response even if you're simply making statements here and there just to see what response comes next. If you were really being the seeming neutral, unbiased, "just curious" observer you are portraying yourself to be, you wouldn't be putting things out there to prompt a response. Maybe for you, this is all amusing I guess. :D But I'm close enough to this topic to know that being cool about this issue disregards how serious it is especially to those who deal with these concerns everyday.
 
Gaze said:
Doesn't matter. You're obviously throwing out points to get a response. Being "I'm just here watching the conversation, observing" doesn't change the fact that you are still engaging in a conversation with me with statements that subtly encourage a response even if you're simply making statements here and there just to see what response comes next. If you were really being the seeming neutral, unbiased, "just curious" observer you are portraying yourself to be, you wouldn't be putting things out there to prompt a response. Maybe for you, this is all amusing I guess. :D But I'm close enough to this topic to know that being cool about this issue disregards how serious it is especially to those who deal with these concerns everyday.
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You could be right about that ... :)
 
Infjente said:
Recently in my country, there's a new law that says there will be zero tolerance for bullying...

What do you think about this?
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I'm trying to refrain from using a word that starts with P and rhymes with wussy.

Jesus Christ.

It's fine to be opposed to actual bullying but not in the name of trampling freedom of expression.
 
Bullies single out people who can't fight back. J has Asperger's. Kids surrounded her and pummeled her with basketballs. In high school, a cocky football player tripped her for kicks. Repeatedly.

If an adult did that to a kid, it could squeeze by using the "discipline" cover. So, it could possibly be legal. If a kid does it, no big deal, kids beat losers up, that's life. So, J (who has Asperger's) can be tortured day in and day out because no one takes kid stuff seriously.

Bullies should be given one warning. If they do it again (and they will), kick them out. Talk about disruption. No one should have to endure what J did.

Teens should be charged with assault.

The shit kids grow into shit adults who continue to abuse others for fun or out of stress.

In reality, schools do nothing effective. They told J to carry a notebook in order to jot down the time and location of the incident. Jesus Christ! Sure, I take notes as I'm being hit.

Victims are told it's just normal, when it actually isn't.
 
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