Zoroastrianism

Ifur said:
Tree of life and Valhalla etc doesn't have to do with cosmology directly.
Based on what I've worked out, there are a few double meanings.
Like Mulspel being fire and light, in addition to mulspelheim being "where thos red headed live".
With perhaps some steretypic about red haired people.
Moon in Old Norse is closer to Mahne, which is more like Aether.
Sol that sounds closer to "Soul" is the sun, while there are are poetic forms being Sunna.
Now we can discuss Ginnu, or, gap ga Ginnunga (the gaping void).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trundholm_sun_chariot

https://norse-mythology.org/sol-mani/
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Trying to follow here, but I can't seem to grasp the concept well? On "where those red headed live", it seems the red hair genes do originate from the Norse? Did not know that.
It seems to still be in discussion (as it could be from Celtic origin as well).
http://thedockyards.com/red-hair/

Ifur said:
What I wanted to comment was that 12 isn't used often, as it doesn't form much of a useful story, so in the parts other things are there.
Where 8 is the most common, like Draupnir and Sleipnir.
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Well 12 does have its general significance throughout history, does it not? I take 8 was more significant for Norse mythology? Did not know of Draupnir, I've learned something new :).

https://norse-mythology.net/important-numbers-norse-mythology/
There seems to be several numbers that are important to the Norse (3,7,8,9)

Ifur said:
Square numbers are nice however, and works better for geoemtry.
If you want to deal with spheres and consider angels and geomtry to be superior, you are going to struggle more with base 10.
Might as well use an 18 hour clock, but with 12 you have 24 for a full day, 6 and 3 -- what to do, what to do.... To get sun dials to be easy to work.
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Ok I understand, it is easier to work with this division from a purely mathematical convencience perspective.

By the way, interesting articles in regards to sundials:
https://www.britannica.com/technology/sundial
https://www.timecenter.com/articles/when-time-began-the-history-and-science-of-sundials/

Seems the divisions differ through history.

Another early device was the hemispherical sundial, or hemicycle, attributed to the Greek astronomer Aristarchus of Samos about 280 BCE. Made of stone or wood, the instrument consisted of a cubical block into which a hemispherical opening was cut. To this block a pointer or style was fixed with one end at the centre of the hemispherical space. The path traveled by the tip of the pointer’s shadow during the day was, approximately, a circular arc. The length and position of the arc varied according to the seasons, so an appropriate number of arcs was inscribed on the internal surface of the hemisphere. Each arc was divided into 12 equal divisions, and each day, reckoned from sunrise to sunset, therefore had 12 equal intervals, or “hours.” Because the length of the day varied according to the season, these hours likewise varied in length from season to season and even from day to day and were consequently known as seasonal hours. Aristarchus’s sundial was widely used for many centuries and, according to the Arab astronomer al-Battānī (c. CE 858–929), was still in use in Muslim countries during the 10th century. The Babylonian astronomer Berosus (flourished c. 290 BCE) invented a variant of this sundial by cutting away the part of the spherical surface south of the circular arc traced by the shadow tip on the longest day of the year.
 
dragulagu said:
Well 12 does have its general significance throughout history, does it not? I take 8 was more significant for Norse mythology? Did not know of Draupnir, I've learned something new :).
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https://norse-mythology.net/important-numbers-norse-mythology/
There seems to be several numbers that are important to the Norse (3,7,8,9)
Click to expand...

https://www.arild-hauge.com/navigasjon.htm

Jamdoegr, when night and day is equally long.
Skamdagen, shortest day of the year.
Eyktarstad, is claimed to be equivalent to Azimuth.

Etc etc... Mostly references from Snorre being discussed.
This knowldge was around in the world during Alexander the Great's time and before.

There is however indication that they used a way to tell time and navigate (where it's two thirds of the sky and square numbers are useful).
Can't find a page that listed a whole bunch of uniters more similar to yards. And that two natucal miles were some kind of "gold standard" rather than one, this also defines the distance of the horizon while taking a knee.
Likely roughly the rim of an average longship -- or something something.... :) 120 cm?
Actually the meter is wrong ( edit and fix as i can't find it, but read something on the internet once(tm)).
 
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Ok so the location does make a difference as well (sounds logical in regards to the day/night division depending on the geological location, as the article states). However as I understand the Norse do have/had an edge
in regards to this as they were sea-faring people. So they learned a lot of the sun positioning / time-divisioning during their travel? They seem to have pretty complex systems in regards to these concepts.

There are several evidence for the correctness of counting a desert azimuth of 60º. It can be referred to the Snorre-Eddaen's statement of the beginning of winter, when the sun goes down in desert. Further to the old Icelandic almanac's statement of the winter's beginning, the week before October 18, old style, which presupposes an erosion of S 60º V. And finally one has the old Icelandic times 4 and 8 that can not appear otherwise than by a sighting of 60º from the south or north. (Henderson's book on Icelandic time tables). It therefore seems impossible to doubt any longer that the desert in Iceland in ancient times has responded to S 60º V. But this has led to some confusion in the relationship between the church's calculation method and the older Norwegian calculation method. The church held that the mirage represented the ninth hour, non, or at. 3 noon, while the real relationship was that on the latitude of Iceland (about 65º) it represented the tenth hour, or at. 4 over noon by equinox.

It's a fascinating article and people (albeit a bit difficult for me to fully grasp).

Also, Vinland = Finland?
 
Ok found something about numbers at least that I can translate, and not that different from Danish still used, so can likely find numberphile discussions on it:

TALL
Grunntall
1:einn, 2:tveir, 3:þrír, 4:fjórir, 5:fim(m), 6:sex, 7:sjau, 8:átta, 9:níu, 10:tìu, 11:ellifu, 12:tolf, 13:þrettán, 14:fjórtán, 15:fimtán, 16:sextán, 17:sjaután, 18:áttján, 19:nítján,
20:tuttugu, 21:tuttugu ok en (ein ok tuttugu), 22:tuttugu ok tveir (tveir ok tuttugu) osv.
30:þrír tigir, 40:fjórir tigir, 50:fim(m) tigir, 60:sex tigir, 70:sjau tigir, 80:átti tigir, 90:níu tigir, 100:tíu tiger (hundrað), 110:ellifu tigir((hundrað ok tíu), 120:tolf tigir (hundrað) osv.
Et tall som 55 kan også bli utrykt fim(m) ins sétta tigar (fem på den sjette tier) eller ved halfr sétti tigr (halvsjette tier).
Hundrað (Hundre) betyr helst "stort hundre", dvs. 120. Dermed kan man finne oversatte tekster hvor tallbenevnelsen hundre, betyr 120. Halvannet hundre er da 180, to hundre 240, to hundre og 20 er da 260 osv.
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Above 20, and 30 it gets weird.
21: tweny and one (one and twenty).
30: three tens.
Where shorthand could be:
55: (five on the sixth ten, or perhaps more accurate, half sixth ten).
Where it states hundred means 120, so half second hundred is 180, to hundred is 240 etc.

But yeah, 12 seems to also be important for others things. While elder futhark is divided in three rows by 8 in most cases it seems.
It's actually a bit nuttily "compressed", and likely there is kind of a knowledge error correction between systems as well.
 
dragulagu said:
However as I understand the Norse do have/had an edge
in regards to this as they were sea-faring people. So they learned a lot of the sun positioning / time-divisioning during their travel?
Click to expand...

There is clear evidence they may even have discussed algebra in Turkey, albeit "Halfdan carved these runes" in a Mosque in Istanbul wasn't likely done by the best and brightest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runic_inscriptions_in_Hagia_Sophia

And apparantly, "wine bag" in latin was a ethnic/racial slur for them -- sailors and fishermen.
 
Ifur said:
Above 20, and 30 it gets weird.
21: tweny and one (one and twenty).
30: three tens.
Where shorthand could be:
55: (five on the sixth ten, or perhaps more accurate, half sixth ten).
Where it states hundred means 120, so half second hundred is 180, to hundred is 240 etc.
Click to expand...

I see some similarities with the France in regards to three tens, they have something similar with 80, quatre-vingt (4 times 20), seems there's a whole lot of background on it as well:
https://francaisdenosregions.com/2017/03/26/comment-dit-on-80-en-belgique-et-en-suisse/

The shorthand is just...bizarre logic.

Ifur said:
But yeah, 12 seems to also be important for others things. While elder futhark is divided in three rows by 8 in most cases it seems.
It's actually a bit nuttily "compressed", and likely there is kind of a knowledge error correction between systems as well.
Click to expand...
Indeed

Ifur said:
No, that's "land of fields", West of Greenland.
Whereever Leif Eirkosn built a settlement, Nova Scotia?
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Cool, did not see the correlation.
 
dragulagu said:
I see some similarities with the France in regards to three tens, they have something similar with 80, quatre-vingt (4 times 20), seems there's a whole lot of background on it as well:
https://francaisdenosregions.com/2017/03/26/comment-dit-on-80-en-belgique-et-en-suisse/

The shorthand is just...bizarre logic.
Click to expand...

"
The standard way to tell the time when it’s X:30 is “half past X”. For example, 5:30 is “half past five”, 7:30 is “half past seven”, and so on (or, if precision is required, there’s nothing wrong with saying “five thirty”, “seven thirty”, etc.).

Brits, however, sometimes use expressions like “half five” or “half seven”. These can be quite confusing for speakers of Slavic and Germanic languages, who would expect the expression “half X” to mean “half before X”. For instance, halb sieben (literally “half seven”) means “half past six” (6:30) in German.

The expression is thought of in a different way in British English. “Half five” is just a colloquial way of saying “half past five”, with the word “past” being implied, i.e. an hour more than speakers of other languages would assume."

Danish, the shorthand for 90 is halvfems (half five's), so 4 times 20 pluss 10.
 
Zoo-asteriskism is how I read this.

Thank you for listening.
Carry on .❤️
 
Wait!
A quick amount of research and wow. I never knew of this mythology/religion before. I am intrigued. Seems good this far.

Thank you Dragulagu!
 
BritNi said:
Wait!
A quick amount of research and wow. I never knew of this mythology/religion before. I am intrigued. Seems good this far.

Thank you Dragulagu!
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's a fascinating one. Ancient religions always have a certain fascination to me. And as Zoroastrianism is still an existing one, it sparks extra curiosity :).

And that's not only from a mythological/religious perspective, but also for the social/cultural/developing aspect.
A lot of these religions are intertwined with the cultures back then, which makes it intriguing in my eyes (as in; how do people of a specific culture involve around their religion or how did a religion evolve from one or
more specific cultures). You'll discover very interesting curiosities when reading about these.

An nice example that's kept in my mind: A documentary I once saw about the structural layout of the pyramids in Egypt. They were discussing the air shafts in the pyramids and specifically one that came into mind was The Great Pyramid. The shafts of this pyramid were aligned with the star-signs of 2 specific Gods, Isis and Osiris.
So back then they had the knowledge to a) build these gigantic structures in the first place, b) align them so they are focusing specific star systems and c) intermix these with their religions. It's extraordinary that these ancient cultures had so much knowledge in these times.

https://academic.oup.com/astrogeo/article-pdf/40/3/3.4/498140/40-3-3.4a.pdf

Khufu’s pyramid also contains four “star shafts”, aimed towards the meridian in the sky. When the pyramid was built (c.2500 BC), these shafts aimed at the transit points of Thuban (Alpha Draconis – the then pole star), Orion’s Belt, Sirius and Kochab (Beta Ursa Minoris), clearly intentionally and not coincidentally. The shafts apparently served to direct the ka, or spirit, of the dead pharaoh towards these key stars. Thuban and Kochab were circumpolar “imperishable ones” (stars that never die), Orion represented the deity Osiris, and Sirius his consort, Isis. Precession has since changed the transit points, so the shafts no longer function in this manner.
 
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