[PAX] ...

[Misadventure]

Starting this thread to address some really interesting and important questions EH has thrown out there. Let's keep this peaceful guys or I will get all crazy latina-asian on your asses! Absolutely no insults or fighting. We are adults, let's act like it. Thank you.

I'd like to start a discussion on this. It interests me.

New thread idea!

I will not use the term because society has decided white males are to be silenced.

It's not just white males tho. Honestly it's anyone who doesn't identify with or fit into that particular group. I hear kids using terms that are definitely negative, even more so than my nigga, such as faggot. I think these terms changed within the generations tho, and nigger or nigga and faggot do not mean what they meant in your childhood. That is also a huge part of it, not just which social groups use which terms. Age is a huge part of it. A middle-aged white guy saying faggot will absolutely have negative connotations attached to it. But if a kid uses it to call his dumbass friend a dumbass (which is what it means now) the meaning is taken as exactly that.

Since I can remember being taught that phrase has always been associated with oppression and slavery. My question is though if it is in fact that (which it seems to be) how does anyone benifit from using it?

Again, depends on the social group and ages of the people using the term. In my circle of people, it is widely used as a term of endearment, of brotherhood. Why have we taken such a negative word and decide to use it against eachother? Simple. We made it a positive one. It can't hurt us if it's used in a positive light. I have been called 'nip' 'spic' 'half breed' all of the other negative words you could think of by...yup old white guys. This will change as more and more baby boomers die off. Just being honest. They were raised in racism and the majority are too set in their ways to change.

Now I know that I am not liked here. People think that I am trolling in everything I say. I keep telling them there's nothing further from the truth and they keep telling me I am lying. My point Is, I do not mean to offend. All I am doing is asking the questions no one wants to address in my mind in order to gain a better understanding of society in general.

You really should take @Free up on the offer of her little experiment. I KNOW you're not racist or a bigot and really just want to understand people. But, I have more experience with INTJ's like you and so does she, which is why I think she proposed such a thing to you. Here's my thoughts EH, you are not disliked. I actually happen to like you and count myself lucky that I never dive into the politics threads because... NO. NF's are passionate about our ideals. Sure you can challenge them, but don't insult us in doing so. We will react in irrational and even more passionate ways if you do that. That's what makes us NF's, not NT's . But dude, you talk about nothing other than politics! How can we as a community relate to you? Talk more about you cat, we love seeing that side of you. We would love to hear about anything going on in your life OTHER THAN POLITICS!

 

[invisible]

Speaking as a white male I will respect the experiences of people who have been attacked by "the n word" by never putting any form of the word in my voice.

Is it flattering for someone who identifies with and reclaims this word to use it on me? Absolutely, what could be more flattering!

The word faggot has changed now but for me, it will always be remaining the same as when I worked at a gay bar with a colleague whose rib got fractured in a gay bashing at the train station on his way home from work. I would never use that word on anyone. But I understand that it has changed.

 

[Misadventure]

Speaking as a white male I will respect the experiences of people who have been attacked by "the n word" by never putting any form of the word in my voice.

Is it flattering for someone who identifies with and reclaims this word to use it on me, absolutely, what could be more flattering?

The word faggot has changed now but for me, it will always be remaining the same as when I worked at a gay bar with a colleague whose rib got fractured in a gay bashing at the train station on his way home from work. I would never use that word on anyone. But I understand that it has changed.

This is exactly why we totally should talk about this. Not just so EH can understand better but so we all can. You are so my nigga, and I say that with so much love, even if you won't call me that in return out of respect. Respect that I am grateful for! Just like I would never use the word faggot near you, but you could totally call me that! For the record, I do identify as bisexual and the word faggot would be offensive to me as well, if used in the bygone negative sense, because I include myself within the LBGTQ community.
lol, I think we'll end up confusing @Eventhorizon more

 

[Misadventure]

just posting for reference as these posts are what sparked this topic:

Read the thread title, and am wondering how this applies to my d-bag ho-ness...

Ah ha! <lightbulb>

Not just women, stop being so sexist. It's more appropriate to say social groups. But since we're on this topic, it's reclaiming a derogatory term and using it for empowerment instead. For instance, nigga. I say "my nigga" all the time. My husband is black, my kids are mixed blasian (black latino asian) I think it's important for them to be able to turn this word that once was used against them in negative ways into something that celebrates brotherhood/sisterhood.


THIS! Oh gawd I've missed you my nigga! :kissy: (anyone who takes offense to that is an asshole)

I'd like to start a discussion on this. It interests me. I will not use the term because society has decided white males are to be silenced. However I'll be honest, I've never had the desire, the thought or inclination to use a term like that. Since I can remember being taught that phrase has always been associated with oppression and slavery. My question is though if it is in fact that (which it seems to be) how does anyone benifit from using it?
Now I know that I am not liked here. People think that I am trolling in everything I say. I keep telling them there's nothing further from the truth and they keep telling me I am lying. My point Is, I do not mean to offend. All I am doing is asking the questions no one wants to address in my mind in order to gain a better understanding of society in general.
How does one benifit by calling others or or being called by others a term that is only associated with negativity?

 

[Wyote]

Words have as much power as you give them, cupcake.
Context is everything. It's better to ere on the side of caution when speaking to an open group online or off. It's also important to ere on the side of casualness when interacting with an open group, as intent becomes less discernible. I see it as any human needing to operate with some sense of "casual respect" while getting to know a person and then following probably two paths as any relationship develops:

Casual Respect --> Disrespect (humorously, subversivally)
Casual Respect --> Veneration (humorously, genuinely)

Then ultimately you earn the ability to both disrespect and venerate in equal parts and this is the foundation of a solid relationship.

To an onlooker, my friend yelling at me calling me a lazy cripple fascist, and me responding by calling him a fat fucking Jew bag would be perhaps horrifying. Which is why generally people don't do that sort of thing in public.

You can say pretty much whatever you want as long as there is an agreed upon environment of respect in which to do so. Online, these parameters aren't really written up. And it's more difficult to discern when somebody is attempting subversion or being genuine in both negative and positive instances.

 

[Wyote]

TL;DR just be kind, use common sense, don't trigger yourself into oblivion

 

[Misadventure]

TL;DR just be kind, use common sense, don't trigger yourself into oblivion

This would seem like common sense right? LOL It generally is but this discussion was opened so EH and others who are scratching their heads at the topic can have a better understanding of the all the nuances these words are surrounded by. When to use them, when not to, but the biggest question was "WHY" do we even use these words at all?

 

[Wyote]

"WHY" do we even use these words at all?

Social hierarchy establishment/dominance.

But in ways people may not always think of. It can be nuanced so I won't get into it. It can be circumstantial as well.

 

[Pin]

Either everyone has the right to say disgusting words or no one does.

Freedom of Speech.

With that being said, I believe that we should all work to refrain from using vulgar language.

 

[Lady Jolanda]

Either everyone has the right to say disgusting words or no one does.

Freedom of Speech.

With that being said, I believe that we should all work to refrain from using vulgar language.

Goddammit Pin, you're fucking right.

 

[Happy Phantom]

Common sense would suggest that EH shouldn’t say that word (and above mentioned words) at all, ever. Same goes for myself and my kids. That being said, what EH and others choose to do is their own business.

 

[the]

I can’t believe we are using the nigger word and calling people faggots like it’s ok. This is infj progress.

 

[Ginny]

Words have as much power as you give them, cupcake.
Context is everything. It's better to ere on the side of caution when speaking to an open group online or off. It's also important to ere on the side of casualness when interacting with an open group, as intent becomes less discernible. I see it as any human needing to operate with some sense of "casual respect" while getting to know a person and then following probably two paths as any relationship develops:

Casual Respect --> Disrespect (humorously, subversivally)
Casual Respect --> Veneration (humorously, genuinely)

Then ultimately you earn the ability to both disrespect and venerate in equal parts and this is the foundation of a solid relationship.

To an onlooker, my friend yelling at me calling me a lazy cripple fascist, and me responding by calling him a fat fucking Jew bag would be perhaps horrifying. Which is why generally people don't do that sort of thing in public.

You can say pretty much whatever you want as long as there is an agreed upon environment of respect in which to do so. Online, these parameters aren't really written up. And it's more difficult to discern when somebody is attempting subversion or being genuine in both negative and positive instances.

I have never used that kind of language for fear it could be taken the wrong way. Perhaps at some point I tried to, but I never had that good a connection to someone (at least not for a long time), that I knew it would be understood the way I meant it.

Being white in a predominantly white community makes someone insecure in situations wherein you are confronted with other social (or cultural) groups, with a different vernacular from your own. At least, I think about it this way. I have grown used to using respectful language all the time, lax as it already is socially, and only use more harsh words in a very private social environment, though never to that degree.

I'll probably never be comfortable using that kind of language, but moreover, I don't think there's a need to. However, I appreciate it to gain a better understanding of what it is like in other social groups. It may alleviate some of my fears as well

 

[invisible]

I can’t believe we are using the nigger word and calling people faggots like it’s ok. This is infj progress.

It's nothing to do with INFJs. It's a common approach of oppressed groups to hate speech.

 

[invisible]

Either everyone has the right to say disgusting words or no one does.

Freedom of Speech.

With that being said, I believe that we should all work to refrain from using vulgar language.

I agree it's your right to say whatever you want. But doing it displays a lack of sophisticated thought about the complexities of language in social contexts.

Language also has real world destructive effects on people's lives, it can institutionalise oppression and fuck up the progress of equality and freedom in society, which is why some language usage is treated as criminal.

What does it mean to be vulgar? Is vulgar a kind of word that wealthy people use to formulate their own social rules and demarcate themselves from others who don't have the exposure to those rules necessary to comply with them? Similar to "common" and "coarse"? If so, I don't really have a problem with vulgar language.

 

[Happy Phantom]

Either everyone has the right to say disgusting words or no one does.

Freedom of Speech.

With that being said, I believe that we should all work to refrain from using vulgar language.

Pfft. You're nothing but a power seeking, money hungry honkey so what do you know.

Also, I have no idea if any of the above I've written is true.

Also my kids won't allow me to use the word retarded even though we said it a lot in the eighties because it's insensitive.

@Wyote i voted you funniest because you nearly made me pee myself with a comment you made last year about this gif.

I replied, “Hey I just saw you on Spn as well!” Now I could have continued the joke however I’d rather share cute animal pics with you because I have no idea what it’s like to be you, and cute animals make most people happy.

 

[acd]

You have the right to use disgusting language but it doesn't mean you are free from the consequences of using it against others. If you want to call someone names here or at a private establishment, nobody is going to arrest you. But you might be banned because it violates the terms of a private entity. That's not challenging your right to free speech.

And a group may take up a slur because it's a form of trying to overcome oppression. Maybe as a way of saying that such a word no longer has control over them. For example, the Slut Walks that were going on a few years ago...

 

[Happy Phantom]

You have the right to use disgusting language but it doesn't mean you are free from the consequences of using it against others. If you want to call someone names here or at a private establishment, nobody is going to arrest you. But you might be banned because it violates the terms of a private entity. That's not challenging your right to free speech.

And a group may take up a slur because it's a form of trying to overcome oppression. Maybe as a way of saying that such a word no longer has control over them. For example, the Slut Walks that were going on a few years ago...

 

[acd]

And if you aren't a member of a group that has been referred to by an abusive word, prob not a good idea to start using it as a term of endearment or whathaveyou.It's not your word to reclaim. I mean you can use it, but the consequences are that you may look like an ass.

 

[infinite dreams]

I'm not comfortable using these sorts of terms in conversation. Maybe it's because I grew up in a part of the US where white people (especially "old" ones, but certainly not limited to them) casually threw around the n-word to describe literally any black person, even going so far as to assign gradations to the term (good n----, bad n----, a n---- who knows their place). I have no experience with what it's like to bear the connotations of such terms, plus the nuance of when someone might find it okay vs. not is too murky. So I simply refrain.

How others want to use their words is their business, but as @acd put it they need to be prepared for the social consequences of such.