A question on Gay Rights

[Satya]

DOWN WITH HOMOSEXUALS!!

And while they are down there...

Is that your arguments, or is it what you think other people thinks about it?

That is the 6 point plan of the alleged gay agenda. I have enough issues already. :m017:

Obviously everyone deserves equal rights. The common discrimination against different sexualities has a few causes I think. Religious and traditional values are generally against everything that is precieved as different, and that plays a huge part in the equasion. However, I don't believe that tradition and social conditioning are nescessary the root of the problem (and intolerance is, indeed, a problem) rather, people just hide behind them and use them to justify their prejudices and intolerance. In western culture (which has been grealty influenced by christianity) sex and sexuality is simultaneously considered dirty and wrong, and something that is to be desired. This creates very sexually confused population, I believe. And when one is confused by something that is part of oneself, it becomes an oversensitive topic.

In short: people are confused by their own sexuality and thus see different sexual orientations as scary and/or threatening.

I used to think insecurities about sexuality were the driving force behind much of the selective perception and intolerance around homosexuality, but I've since come to the conclusion that ignorance and pride are the main culprits. Namely, ignorance about how religious dogma can hurt people via inculturation of shame and guilt, and self righteous pride in patriarchal gender roles that are traditionally based in religious faith.

 

[Wyote]

I used to think insecurities about sexuality were the driving force behind much of the selective perception and intolerance around homosexuality, but I've since come to the conclusion that ignorance and pride are the main culprits. Namely, ignorance about how religious dogma can hurt people via inculturation of shame and guilt, and self righteous pride in patriarchal gender roles that are traditionally based in religious faith.

Exactly.

 

[Lurker]

And while they are down there...

Oh wow, that coughing monkey looks well, different in light of your comment

 

[Satya]

Oh wow, that coughing monkey looks well, different in light of your comment

Hehehe

 

[Morpheus]

I used to think insecurities about sexuality were the driving force behind much of the selective perception and intolerance around homosexuality, but I've since come to the conclusion that ignorance and pride are the main culprits. Namely, ignorance about how religious dogma can hurt people via inculturation of shame and guilt, and self righteous pride in patriarchal gender roles that are traditionally based in religious faith.

Well that propably plays a part in the whole picture. However, I see religious idiocy more as an amplifier than as the root cause. Basically anything can be read into scripture, thus it helps people justify their bigoted opinions. I mean, not even almost all religious people are against homosexuality, and a lot of non religious people have just as bigoted opinions about the issue as the religious extrimists. The difference is that the latter group will not try to enforce their beliefs to other people as likely as the first one, since they can't make their own opinions the objective truth and word of god by toying with the bible.

 

[Satya]

a lot of non religious people have just as bigoted opinions about the issue as the religious extrimists.

Look at it historically. Homosexuality was first cited as bad in religious scriptures. In the case of Christians, in the Bible. In the Bible, there are 6 verses which condemn homosexuality as being out of accordance with God's design, and thus an "unnatural" act, abomination, and sin. Hence why the first homosexuals were called "Sodomites". This is the first stage of deviance. When moral authorities come together and decide something is a character flaw. Then religious authorities influenced the states throughout history to outlaw homosexual acts. Hence why "sodomy" was illegal in many states in the United States all the way up to Lawrence vs. Texas. That is the second state of deviance. When sin is turned into crime. Then there were the psychologists of the late 19th century who named same sex attraction, "homosexuality" and declared it a mental illness. Thus you have the third step of deviance formation, crime becoming sickness. So the entire historical basis for discrimination against homosexuality has its roots in religious belief.

I have yet to meet a non religious person who was just as intolerant of homosexuality as religious extremists. The only people who I think meet that criteria are political extremists like Nazis. Those individuals base their hatred for homosexuality on the quasi religious belief of Social Darwinism. Do you have some other examples?

There are no valid non religious arguments that can be made against homosexuality and so very few people who are not religious have reason to be prejudice towards homosexuals. The entire argument against homosexuality resides in logic derived from religion. Religion, without a doubt, is the primary source of prejudice and discrimination when it comes to homosexuality. The difference between religious people who are prejudice and those who aren't is pride and ignorance.

 

[gOpHeR]

"Liberty consists of being able to do anything that does not harm others: thus, the exercise of the natural rights of every man or woman has no bounds other than those that guarantee other members of society the enjoyment of these same rights."
Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen

I guess it comes from people thinking that someone being gay/lezzie/tranny/whatever does them harm.

 

[alcyone]

There is a big difference in someone 'thinking' that alternate sexuality does them harm...and it ACTUALLY doing them harm.

After all, the thoughts affect only the one thinking them.

 

[slant]

Even if gay people are biologically inclined to being gay it doesn't mean they have to act on it. Some people are born with tendencies that are more violent than others, but does that give them the right to act out on it?

 

[Satya]

Even if gay people are biologically inclined to being gay it doesn't mean they have to act on it. Some people are born with tendencies that are more violent than others, but does that give them the right to act out on it?

Just because straight people are biologically inclined to being straight doesn't mean they have to act on it. What's your point? What does being violent have to do with being gay?

 

[slant]

Just because straight people are biologically inclined to being straight doesn't mean they have to act on it. What's your point? What does being violent have to do with being gay?

It's an example of biological malfunctions that are harmful to society and shouldn't be acted on. God made man and woman sexually compatible for a reason, and perhaps there is a reason he made gay men and women; for the purpose of them to overcome that.

 

[TheLastMohican]

Even if gay people are biologically inclined to being gay it doesn't mean they have to act on it. Some people are born with tendencies that are more violent than others, but does that give them the right to act out on it?

Violence includes one person harming another person.

Homosexuality (of the consensual variety) includes homosexual people pursuing happiness in the same way that heterosexual people do.

Do you think that gay people are less deserving of the "inalienable right" of the pursuit of happiness than people of other sexual orientations?

 

[NaeturVindur]

It's an example of biological malfunctions that are harmful to society and shouldn't be acted on. God made man and woman sexually compatible for a reason, and perhaps there is a reason he made gay men and women; for the purpose of them to overcome that.

but why shouldn't homosexuals act on their inclinations? The violent ones shouldn't because their tendencies do direct harm to others. what harm do homosexuals do?

 

[TheLastMohican]

It's an example of biological malfunctions that are harmful to society and shouldn't be acted on.

Explain how they are harmful to society.

God made man and woman sexually compatible for a reason, and perhaps there is a reason he made gay men and women; for the purpose of them to overcome that.

Yeah, I get that: God gives people His divine laws, and then creates some of them with an unusually powerful urge to break one of the laws, while also giving them a strong aversion to finding romantic/sexual fulfillment with those "approved."
Then He tosses some of them in Hell as necessary, cause hey, it was just their tough luck.

 

[Satya]

It's an example of biological malfunctions that are harmful to society and shouldn't be acted on. God made man and woman sexually compatible for a reason, and perhaps there is a reason he made gay men and women; for the purpose of them to overcome that.

So you base your belief on how people should live their lives based on your conception of God? Good for you. However, not everyone holds your conception of God. Do they not deserve the right to live their lives as they see fit and to pursuit their happiness in their own way?

And in what ways is homosexuality harmful? If it occurs between two consenting adults in a monogamous relationship, then it is no more harmful than a heterosexual relationship.

 

[IndigoSensor]

It's an example of biological malfunctions that are harmful to society and shouldn't be acted on. God made man and woman sexually compatible for a reason, and perhaps there is a reason he made gay men and women; for the purpose of them to overcome that.

Don't put god in this. No one can prove that god exsists or not. Therefore his "word" can't be proven to be true, and is invalid.

Being gay, does not cause any harm to you or any one else in the world.

 

[slant]

So you base your belief on how people should live their lives based on your conception of God? Good for you. However, not everyone holds your conception of God. Do they not deserve the right to live their lives as they see fit and to pursuit their happiness in their own way?

And in what ways is homosexuality harmful? If it occurs between two consenting adults in a monogamous relationship, then it is no more harmful than a heterosexual relationship.

Homosexuality is a sin, it's the goal of any god-fearing person to help those people. Opposition of homosexuality is for the good of mankind.

I don't have answers for anything further than that. I can't get most mormon folk past that point. They just go blabbing on about god and we're his creations and the bible says homosexuality is WRONG. =/

 

[moonbabyam]

In Reference to the initial question:
(Heterosexual normativity, maintaining the social norm/specifically the "white wedding", and to make a message out of deviant groups of individuals stigmatizing them and thus rendering them invisible at the same time.<~Are the things that preventing homosexual relations does)

I agree, it is horrible (preventing people from attaining, what I prefer to call "civil unions")...I honestly think people should be able to leave everything to their dog if they want (with in certain regards of course).
Hopefully people will stop da hate, I have to say I see a lot of highly functioning 2 same sex parents with children these days, granted they might be some what privliged. It is obvious that sexual prefrence really isn't something that should be put in law for discussion. It really is a matter of basic human rights, and who you want to share them with.
Although, what I have never understood is why they would want to even get "married" in the first place being that it was a tradition started out for a man and woman. Can't individuals who wish to "marry" come up with a more creative and less relgious affiliated name? I myself am not currently expressing heterosexuality however If I ever were, and I wanted to attain a "civil union" I would insist on NOT calling it marriage because It would be against everything that my union would stand for. But that is just me.




OHHHH And this is completely out there, but how about this. What if homosexuality is an evolutionary process that has developed with in our hormonal and phermonal biology to slow down the overpopulation that is occuring in our society.
I mean kind of goes against what I said earlier but...what if????
And I don't think God made man and woman, there are more transgendered people out there than people acknowledge or will admit to. Its a load of bunk to assume there is only TWO genders.
Even people with biological parts have chemical differences that change their mental and hormonal DRIVES.

I think it is so funny how people want to protest gay marriage but they will go to McyD's and eat "Gods creatures" that have been litterally put through hell. I want to go there and protest! Interupt prayer time too.

I don't know about the whole God thing, it might be there it might not. But based on what I know so far there are way too many people on this earth of different everything for me to assume that, that IT up there would want only the ones with procreative parts to hook up.

 

[Lurker]

op2:

 

[Satya]

Homosexuality is a sin, it's the goal of any god-fearing person to help those people. Opposition of homosexuality is for the good of mankind.

Well God tells me that fighting for gay marriage and equal rights for gays is good for all mankind. So I guess we can live our lives as our respected God's have intended.