Abortion

Hotkebab said:
I'm not at all surprised by this response. I was expecting it, I have said it many times and I will say it again.
To love is to sacrifice.
Who do you love more, yourself or the child that is within you?
It is instinct for humans to think about themselves and their own survival, that's why sometimes we do things that are considered to be selfish to others. As a species many of us fail to step back and realize the possible consequences of our own actions and the lives of those around us that will be affected in the process.
Humans simply don't care for others that have no connection to them what so ever, but to be a mother and having to make the choice shows the individual's values and morals. Life is a gift that many take for granted, a gift that they, by their own choice are willing to spit on and trample, not only to themselves but to others too.
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But what if the mother doesn't have the means to take care of the child? What if she's not able to give that baby a loving and caring home?
 
mf said:
Ehhh, it's a tricky subject for me. I'm not particularly for it, but unless I played a part in the role of creating the child, it really isn't my concern. I'd say somewhere around 25 or 26 weeks would be the absolute cut off. Somewhere around this time the brain starts to form high levels of activity, and 5.5-6 months if far more than late enough.

When does life officially begin? Hell if I know.
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if we say that life begins at conception and no later, then aborting a baby should generate the same amount of concern in us (the general public) as the murder of a random stranger on the streets (for example). but if on the other hand, a person technically isn't a person until 25-26weeks (or other, when the brain is more developed and they can actually sense things) then aborting them before this point should, indeed, be nobody's business but the mothers...

i really think therefore that defining exactly when life begins is essential to making the right choice. and @88chaz88 is quite right, about it involving both the mother's life and the child's... but again, if you say it's not a child until x no. of weeks, then really, the only people who's rights should count would be the parent's.
 
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I don't value abortion, and were I a woman I would not choose it, and as a partner in a committed relationship where this has been discussed, my partner would not choose it. We both see it as wrong for us.

I hope others would not choose abortion either, but people will choose it in any case, and I would not seek to prevent their actions.

I value Natural Family Planning, where the choice to not have a child is just that, a mutually agreed-upon choice.


cheers,
Ian
 
Bird said:
My entire life I've been being programed to become a medical professional (it's sort of a family thing) and considering the possible benefits of stem cell research, I think the pros outweight the cons. Stem cells can only be harvested from fetuses that are still quite young. Fetal stem cells, that is. Not mature. Do I think you should have an abortion in your third trimester? No way. Do I think you should in your second? Not really, I feel as though if you're going to get an abortion it should be in the first trimester. Personally, I'm not sure I would every be morally comfortable with aborting a fetus myself, but I'm not going to penalyze others for their choice.
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thankyou =) you said you think the pros of stem research outweigh the cons, what specifically are these pros?
 
88chaz88 said:
So being human is morally wrong?
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Human's by default are corrupt, both biblically and scientifically.
I believe that we have a conscience for a reason, however every individual has the choice to listen to it or not.
Our conscience's are influenced by the world around us.
If the law states that something is wrong, chances are that most of us is going to believe that and in some cases enforce it. If I were to say that rape isn't a crime the chances of you disagreeing is considerably high, the same goes for me and my personal views on abortion.

Now I by no means is supporting the act of rape, I believe that it is a horrible horrendous crime, nor do I want to compare it with a abortion, they are different.
But lets say for an example, If I were to come up with a 10 reasons to why rape etc. was not a crime, chances of you coming up with a 10 reasons to why it is wrong would also be considerably high (same goes for other posters here) What I see as wrong is probably different to your views and what you see is wrong.
This is where the clash occurs here on this discussion of abortion.

As far as humans being morally wrong, by who's eyes? Your eyes, my eyes, societies eyes or God's eyes etc.?
Our eyes are probably most likely different, so what I say is wrong, you might believe it to be right.
I can't change your eyes and you can't change mine, we can only change our own.
 
Avva said:
But what if the mother doesn't have the means to take care of the child? What if she's not able to give that baby a loving and caring home?
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Again, every human is presented with the power of choice. There is more than one option, even is that option itself means you climbing to the top of mount Everest to provide for your child.
There is always another option even in the toughest of situations.
 
I'm completely pro choice. I see it as a potential life until the parents decide to keep it or not.
 
DevilDoll said:
I am completely Pro-Choice. I have absolutely no right to tell someone what they can and can not do with their body. I have no right to judge their situation. Who am I to say that they are in the right physical or mental state to carry and give birth to a child? Only the woman (and her partner) in that situation can make that kind of decision. Not me, not the government, not anyone that isn't directly involved. Would I have an abortion? That would depend on the situation surrounding the pregnancy, but probably not. I believe I could both physically and mentally handle the pregnancy. If something were to come up that rendered me incapable of doing that, I would consider abortion an option.
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o but the fetus (if it's considered a person) would have the same rights to life as would any other person... including the mother. and in that case, people outside of the situation should have some say in what happens, otherwise you're allowing one person/party sole power to dictate whether another person lives or dies... and imo nobody should be able to decide that (or at least, not on their own). the implications are too great. it's not just their life they're changing, it's everyone connected and everyone who could've or would've been connected to and benefited from the child's life should they have been given the chance to live.


something else i was thinking about... when babies are born, their brains are still highly underdeveloped. they don't reach maturity until several years after birth, so in a sense.. are they really human before this point? it sounds morbid (and i only entertain the idea for the sake of debate), but would killing a baby be as ethically reprehensible as killing a fully grown adult?
 
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I'm definitely pro-life. I believe abortion should only be used if the mother's life depended on it, but I would die if it would save my child
 
IndigoSensor said:
I'm completely pro choice. I see it as a potential life until the parents decide to keep it or not.
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children are only potential adults =P

fetuses are likewise potential children. if we accord the right to life independent of their parent's desires to children, then denying it to fetuses seems arbitrary & demands explanation. the only explanation i've seen is that fetuses aren't considered human until at least several weeks into pregnancy... but what if we're wrong? what if life begins at conception, and human beings experience something of substance from the very moment they're conceived?
 
Rather a hot topic and full of angst.

I believe abortion exists. Unless you lobotomize everybody on the planet, abortion will exist. The only thing is for society and individuals to decide how it will be used and under what circumstances. It is a decision that will change according to prevailing morals and technology.

I will never support ideals and laws placed upon society by Judeo-Christian beliefs alone (within USA) because we are not a "Christian" society and should never strive to be one according to the principles that founded the United States.
 
Against, although of course with exceptions for the health of the mother. Abortions believed to be medically necessary are roughly the same as killing in self defense. There is also no problem with birth control, including the morning after pill.


Life does not begin at birth or conception. It began a long time ago, and merely continues in recombinant forms.
 
I think that abortion is a huge topic. There are many important issues that ought to be looked into and studied, and many of them overlap, so Pro-Life and Pro-Choice labels don't cut it for me. For instance, some people think it's ethical to abort a pregnancy under some circumstances, but they don't favor certain methods of abortion like saline burning, partial-birth abortion, etc. Also, there's a thin line that can be drawn between aborting a pregnancy and aborting a life. For instance, the term abortion can extend to emergency deliveries where fetuses/babies aren't maimed, suffocated, etc. or simply disposed of. And there are those who favor stem cell research, and so support abortion, without realizing that there are equally viable stem cells that can be harvested from umbilical chords and adult tissues like fat, with a wide range of medical applications.

Like chaz, I'd go with the scientific definition of life and say that life starts straight away (from conception). And I generally do not favor abortion, especially if that means cutting the unborn baby up into pieces or burning it with chemicals, or scraping the mother's uterus with instruments that can perforate tissue and cause death like it did to a teenager who insisted on having an abortion without parental consent. Abortion is a very serious matter with serious health consequences. It has to be studied carefully. Ladies, please be gentle with yourselves and your unborn babies. Educate yourselves, because education is power. And in cases like abortion, education can mean your life.
 
88chaz88 said:
And what about the life of the mother which began years ago, is that all of a sudden worthless?
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Not that I am jumping into this argument or that I even care since I am not a woman and its not my choice/decision anyway, but do you mean life or convenience? Because most abortions don't happen to save the physical life of the mother, but to preserve the mothers standard of living.
 
Billy said:
Not that I am jumping into this argument or that I even care since I am not a woman and its not my choice/decision anyway, but do you mean life or convenience? Because most abortions don't happen to save the physical life of the mother, but to preserve the mothers standard of living.
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Standard of living, but I don't think "convenience" is the best way of putting it. Having a child at the wrong time isn't just inconvenient, at times it could be life destroying. Imagine falling pregnant through a college semester, or really any time that you're financially unstable. How fair would it be on the kid too to grow up when it's parent/s are struggling to look after it?
 
April said:
children are only potential adults =P

fetuses are likewise potential children. if we accord the right to life independent of their parent's desires to children, then denying it to fetuses seems arbitrary & demands explanation. the only explanation i've seen is that fetuses aren't considered human until at least several weeks into pregnancy... but what if we're wrong? what if life begins at conception, and human beings experience something of substance from the very moment they're conceived?
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I will likely get reamed for this, but I honestly don't see much in an infant, never have.

They have the potential to be grown, but within the first week or so of life they are pretty much running off pure biology and instinct, and therefore still qualify as potential life. They can't make conscious decisions. I know some people say that by feeling this way you could justify killing babies, but I don't think that way at all. Once a child has been agreed to be born, then you are to stick to that decision. Not doing so would indeed be murder. But if the infant is still inside the women, then it is her choice to keep it or not no matter how far along it is. The infant has not had any experience in life, and as such has nothing to loose really.

I cringe at the thought for people who actually preform abortions, I could never do it myself as it would pull on my heart strings too much. Nevertheless I see them as potential lives and not much else.
 
88chaz88 said:
Standard of living, but I don't think "convenience" is the best way of putting it. Having a child at the wrong time isn't just inconvenient, at times it could be life destroying. Imagine falling pregnant through a college semester, or really any time that you're financially unstable. How fair would it be on the kid too to grow up when it's parent/s are struggling to look after it?
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I dunno, I grew up super poor, I guess It would have been less fair to have been murdered in the womb, but hey, at least my mom was thinking about my life and not her college degree ya know? Lucky me. And convenience is exactly what it is. You seem to have your terms mixed up, destroying a life means ending a life, your life doesn't end when you have children even if it just gets way harder, ending a life, is ending a life.

I am pro choice for the record and I still believe its murder. If you're going to murder children in the womb at least have the balls to know what it is and still stick by your beliefs, don't try to shush it away with semantics. Humans have been practicing infanticide since our species began. Now because we can kill it before it has a chance to be born its somehow differnt then leaving it on a hillside? please.:m027:
 
Billy said:
I dunno, I grew up super poor, I guess It would have been less fair to have been murdered in the womb, but hey, at least my mom was thinking about my life and not her college degree ya know? Lucky me. And convenience is exactly what it is. You seem to have your terms mixed up, destroying a life means ending a life, your life doesn't end when you have children even if it just gets way harder, ending a life, is ending a life.

I am pro choice for the record and I still believe its murder. If you're going to murder children in the womb at least have the balls to know what it is and still stick by your beliefs, don't try to shush it away with semantics. Humans have been practicing infanticide since our species began. Now because we can kill it before it has a chance to be born its somehow differnt then leaving it on a hillside? please.:m027:
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Was I arguing anything differently? Did I say it wasn't murder?

No.
 
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