Adult Romance Genre Fiction

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Hope it's not illegal to post here [MENTION=1814]invisible[/MENTION] cos if it is I'm just gonna let it go.
 
One thing I have a love-hate relationship with is the relationship development of romance novels. Once the characters consummate the relationship, then everything is perfect. Just from the initial attraction, at first sight, they are almost always immediately right for each other. Not that I don't understand why they do this, but sometimes, they sacrifice character and relationship development by rushing into the romance. When everyone is always so immediately in love without any honest working through of relationships, it hurries gratification to the physical without much development of the emotional and social aspects of the relationship. Immediate attraction is always portrayed as "love". I read a series recently where the lead female character did not end up with the person who was initially portrayed as her permanent romantic interest. He was still given a respectable send off to his own series. The books did a great job of showing why their romance was not realized without destroying his character. The series was called The Blue Eyes Trilogy.
 
Framed said:
One thing I have a love-hate relationship with is the relationship development of romance novels. Once the characters consummate the relationship, then everything is perfect. Just from the initial attraction, at first sight, they are almost always immediately right for each other. Not that I don't understand why they do this, but sometimes, they sacrifice character and relationship development by rushing into the romance. When everyone is always so immediately in love without any honest working through of relationships, it hurries gratification to the physical without much development of the emotional and social aspects of the relationship. Immediate attraction is always portrayed as "love". I read a series recently where the lead female character did not end up with the person who was initially portrayed as her permanent romantic interest. He was still given a respectable send off to his own series. The books did a great job of showing why their romance was not realized without destroying his character. The series was called The Blue Eyes Trilogy.
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great thoughts! will definitely respond more later.
 
in case anyone was wondering, romance writers agree: men who dont do cunnilingus are not worth doing.
 
invisible said:
in case anyone was wondering, romance writers agree: men who dont do cunnilingus are not worth doing.
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further to this.

a while back i read "Sugar Baby" by Lisa Kleypas. for some reason i have been thinking about it a bit more lately. its part of a "glamorous" contemporary romance series that revolves around a wealthy family living in Texas and the women or men who they connect with. she is a remarkable writer in the genre, they are one of the best series that i have read in terms of characters and plot. but in these terms "Sugar Baby" is the most disappointing. you just dont really get emotionally involved in supporting the heroine, and the hero is not very charming. there is something about him that is not that attractive, he is maybe a little bit too possessive or controlling or aggressive or something. not into abuse territory... but close. cant remember exactly what it was that i didnt like about him as i read it a while ago. his conception of ideal love was too different from mine somehow. and he was different from the other heroes she wrote in this series.

but earlier in the book, before meeting this guy, there was an interesting part about a man that she was in a relationship with. he was good looking, financially responsible, they got along well and he was doing kind things for her all the time, like putting delicious food in her refrigerator or whatever, but he would not give her oral sex. it took her some time to realise that it was bothering her that he would say "sorry, i just dont like it", and would refuse to give it to her. she asked her friends what they thought, and they all told her that she was right to expect it, and she should dump him. so she did. in response he was enraged and spiteful and said horrible things to her.

i think it is really interesting that a point was made of including this in the book. and actually, i think that i was reading the book incorrectly. i was treating the main plot line, to do with the unconventional hero, as though this part about oral sex had not come before it, and was not related to it. actually it is related to it, because it is part of the same book, it is a part of the character's journey to finding the relationship that suits her. in this case, not receiving oral sex was a dealbreaker for her in a way that the unconventional qualities of the hero were not. these heroes are being played off against each other. the book is successful because it deliberately and explicitly treats this issue as important. it discusses the issue directly, it brings the issue to attention.

things may not go this way in the real world, but this gives an opportunity for readers to think about what they choose in a mate. "does he give me oral sex and if not, why not? is it necessary for me to accept that i am not allowed to be given oral sex, or is it reasonable that i expect oral sex?" they can think about what their priorities are, without having to feel that they should dismiss their own priorities or regard them as inconsequential. i think that this is why adult romance genre fictions are worth writing, and why it is worthwhile that they exist: because they deals with aspects of real life relationships that elsewhere in popular culture and especially in "high" art or pure art are treated like they are trivial or not worth discussion. in fact, a persons sexual preferences are not trivial! the person is allowed to think about what they expect.

i notice as i am reading these books, that cunnilingus appears to be something that women love. the heroes of these books always give it to them, without exception. it is part of what satisfies them sexually. im not saying that women do not exist who do not enjoy receiving oral sex, but i think that if they do not enjoy it, this is probably due to some sort of hang up or self hatred of their own bodies. or maybe it is for some other, personal psychological reason, that cannot be conceived of as a problem; i would not devalidate anyones personal preference in this way. but all i am saying is that in general, it seems to be an integral part of womens fantasy lives, and what they would want from a lover.

if you are a man who does not give oral sex to his girl, i suggest you rethink your approach. at the very least, if you refuse to give it to her, you should not expect her to give it to you. ask yourself, why exactly do you hate giving it to her so much? try to think about it differently. think that you are giving her a loving kiss in a spot that makes her feel good. think about that part of her body as something else, i dunno, a flower, a raspberry, a diamond, or something. remember that what you are doing when you are performing this on her, is focusing completely on her, and on her satisfaction only, which is a very loving, caring, and considerate thing to do for a person.
 
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i think its very amusing that those posts i just wrote about oral sex are both the 69th post on the thread, and the 69th reply to my original post. i remember i once read somewhere on the internet someones opinion that when two people are truly in tune with each other, and are able to completely give and receive / exchange attention simultaneously with each other, 69 is the highest possible physical expression of love. i just think that is an interesting opinion. from my own experience, i would say that anyone who refuses to do it is missing out. of course, not everyone experiences things the same way.
 
Gist said:
One thing I have a love-hate relationship with is the relationship development of romance novels. Once the characters consummate the relationship, then everything is perfect. Just from the initial attraction, at first sight, they are almost always immediately right for each other. Not that I don't understand why they do this, but sometimes, they sacrifice character and relationship development by rushing into the romance. When everyone is always so immediately in love without any honest working through of relationships, it hurries gratification to the physical without much development of the emotional and social aspects of the relationship. Immediate attraction is always portrayed as "love". I read a series recently where the lead female character did not end up with the person who was initially portrayed as her permanent romantic interest. He was still given a respectable send off to his own series. The books did a great job of showing why their romance was not realized without destroying his character. The series was called The Blue Eyes Trilogy.
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maybe. but actually i think it is in some ways realistic. i read in one of our pop science books at work (i was naughtily browsing the stock while i should have been working) that it takes 3 minutes to fall in love with someone. this is to do with biological features that are supposed to provide signals about a healthy mate, but also because we supposedly compare them against a checklist we have in our heads of what our personal core requirements are for an appropriate match, and this hardly takes any time at all. well, the book did not give any references to research studies, it was a crappy pop science book. but my own intuitive feeling is that it was probably pretty correct. last time i "fell in love" i counted how long it took, and it took a total of 13 minutes of interaction. i lasted longer than 3 minutes, but not by much.

i guess the sex in the books is the "fun" part. sometimes there is a lot of it, sometimes there is hardly any of it. sometimes the sex happens in the first chapter, sometimes it doesnt happen until halfway through the book. sometimes it is better written, sometimes it is poorly written. usually i skip through it pretty quickly.

what is more interesting in the books is not the instant chemistry (which i agree, always seems to be there) or the way the sex is negotiated, but the way that the intimacy is negotiated. the chemistry and sex do not guarantee the success of the relationship. usually, the pair misunderstands each other, and has to negotiate honestly with their own insecurities and fears or other problems, and with each other as adults about what their expectations for the relationship are, and what form the relationship will take, before they can get to the happy ending. for books that do not do this, i think they are either poorly written, or do not really fit into a category of adult romance genre fiction, but are more appropriately judged within generic categories of erotica or pornographic writing.

the Blue Eyes trilogy you mentioned sounds excellent. i think it is an incredibly worthwhile point to make that instant attraction or "love at first sight" does not always result in a viable relationship.
 
ive started reading a series about professional sportsmen and the women that they meet. it is by Jaci Burton, who declares herself to be a lover of sports. i am reading it because i previously read a series written by her that was about a small town called Hope and every book was brilliantly entertaining. normally, i hate the idea of professional sports, and i see it as a blight on society, a tremendous waste of cash, and an industry that is built on the celebration of false and meaningless achievements that contribute nothing genuine to humans or their planet. sometimes i like to read romance fiction because it gives me a glimpse into other peoples lives. it makes me realise that types or classes of people who i previously looked down on for some stupid self-righteous infj-typical reason are in actuality real genuine people after all. it helps me to empathise with people, it brings me closer to my fellows on this planet and in this life.

i think that maybe the general writing agenda of Jaci Burton is to portray women as smart and independent and capable, and how they have to adapt this idea of themselves within a relationship. when the women meet someone who is right for them, it is not a case of them being relieved that they no longer have to do everything themselves. it is a case of them realising that in order to have an equal and balanced relationship, it is necessary to not do everything for self, it is necessary to share certain responsibilities, to look out for each other, to communicate, etc. the women have to sometimes let go of their ideas of themselves as some or other certain thing, and reshape their ideas of themselves into something new that includes sharing a relationship.

the first book in this sports series, called "The Perfect Play", gave an interesting treatment of analingus. (sorry, i hope it is not too mature to mention these topics on a thread that is not in the mature forum. please move this thread to the mature forum if necessary.) during the course of the book, the hero performs wildly enjoyable cunnilingus on the heroine, (which is graphically described, in terms of his dripping face etc.,) and she cant get enough of it. for him, the natural progression is to also perform analingus on her, and she initially balks, but he convinces her that he is not turned off by any part of her, and she finds that she enjoys it. there was meaningful plot in this novel, but it had much more sex in it than what is usual for a romance novel, and i think that it was for the reason that it was dealing with analingus.

i was kind of surprised by this. ive never read a romance book that dealt with analingus before. i guess it is kind of slightly taboo, it is considered to be a very peripheral part of normal sexual practice. but in this book it was treated as very normal, no big deal at all. the book treated it as though the objections or fears surrounding it are kind of blown out of proportion. this is very interesting to think about.

i have always found it to be an unhygienic and unappealing chore, and i have refused to allow it to be performed on me. maybe i am not really that sexual a person. or maybe i am just being a prude.
 
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Oh hell no you aren't being a prude. I'm right there with you. :nod:

Wow...Romance novels have really changed! [eyebrows go up]
 
WARNING, mature content ahead! i wish there were some bbcode that i could use to put this in a break, or an expander or something, like the way you can do "read more" on wordpress.

sometimes its fun to read the descriptions of human orgasms. i noticed that a lot of the time, women writers describe what happens when women as "she shattered" or "she spintered" or "all her pieces flew apart" or something like that. that sounds very troubling, i dont think that i would like to experience that.

usually they describe male orgasms as something like "his orgasm shot through him". as a man, i wouldnt say that an orgasm shoots through me exactly. it makes it sound like the orgasm is the ejaculation, rather than being accompanied by it. i would describe an orgasm as maybe more like pulsing through me.

once when i was much younger i watched a pornographic video of a man masturbating with a friend. when he had his orgasm she said emphatically, "oh my god, womens orgasms are so much better than mens." i asked her why they were so much better, or how she knew that they were better. she said "i dont know. look at his face. he just looks really uncomfortable". we rewound the video and i watched his face and it was true, his brow was all furrowed up as though he was experiencing something uncomfortable. and i think she was right, there is a level of discomfort in it. maybe the discomfort is in the urgency of ejaculation, i cant describe it exactly. it is a pleasurable discomfort, but still, i think there is something about it that can legitimately be called uncomfortable.

adult romance genre fiction: the thinking persons genre fiction.
 
i meant to write, i read a trilogy by Maria Snyder called "Poison Study" and 2 other books, cant remember their titles. i also read part of the next books that are a different trilogy but they are a continuation, they are about a different character that was featured in the first trilogy but continued on. they are about glass.

the first trilogy about the poison taster takes rape as its main human relationship conflict. the character is a previous victim of rape and frequently finds herself in present danger of being raped. it was a good read and i chewed through it compulsively. i wanted to find out the details of her story, how she escaped from her rapist, how she recovered, etc. i think that it is important for books to deal with this topic especially for young people.

i would say that i was disappointed by other aspects of the book though. it is that it is young adult. this is the first young adult that i have read as an adult and i wont be reading any more young adult. it is too simplistic. there is a huge gap between adult romance genre fiction and young adult with romance elements. i found the relationship that was depicted with the love interest to be not very complicated, and i found the love interest himself to be quite flimsy. i dont know why. it just did not seem like a very adult relationship. it was simple. it somehow seemed not to deal with the kinds of conflicts of personality that adults really have to deal with in negotiating relationships with each other.

i have found the series about glass to be OK but not worth reading. the characters are uninspiring. the main feature of the hero seems to be that his hair is unusual colours. i cant get invested in the main character, she annoys me. she keeps getting distracted by other guys. i guess it is a very normal experience, but its not inspiring to read about. its boring. "but i love him! but this other guy makes my heart race and im not sure how i feel!" i recognise the value of its having been written, especially for a young person, but for an adult to read, its boring, childish.
 
invisible said:
WARNING, mature content ahead! i wish there were some bbcode that i could use to put this in a break, or an expander or something, like the way you can do "read more" on wordpress.

sometimes its fun to read the descriptions of human orgasms. i noticed that a lot of the time, women writers describe what happens when women as "she shattered" or "she spintered" or "all her pieces flew apart" or something like that. that sounds very troubling, i dont think that i would like to experience that.

usually they describe male orgasms as something like "his orgasm shot through him". as a man, i wouldnt say that an orgasm shoots through me exactly. it makes it sound like the orgasm is the ejaculation, rather than being accompanied by it. i would describe an orgasm as maybe more like pulsing through me.

once when i was much younger i watched a pornographic video of a man masturbating with a friend. when he had his orgasm she said emphatically, "oh my god, womens orgasms are so much better than mens." i asked her why they were so much better, or how she knew that they were better. she said "i dont know. look at his face. he just looks really uncomfortable". we rewound the video and i watched his face and it was true, his brow was all furrowed up as though he was experiencing something uncomfortable. and i think she was right, there is a level of discomfort in it. maybe the discomfort is in the urgency of ejaculation, i cant describe it exactly. it is a pleasurable discomfort, but still, i think there is something about it that can legitimately be called uncomfortable.

adult romance genre fiction: the thinking persons genre fiction.
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Bahahahahahahaha..... I burst out laughing at this.
 
Kgal said:
Bahahahahahahaha..... I burst out laughing at this.
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so... what do you think? was my friend right? do women have better orgasms? shattering and splintering do not exactly sound comfortable. it does seem like there is some sort of difference between the way that people with male and female bodies experience this phenomenon.
 
invisible said:
so... what do you think? was my friend right? do women have better orgasms? shattering and splintering do not exactly sound comfortable. it does seem like there is some sort of difference between the way that people with male and female bodies experience this phenomenon.
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At first when I read this I thought What? How can one compare them? Then I thought "...well....women are able to have several varieties of orgasm....so perhaps men are indeed on the short end of the deal.

For years and years when I was with my ex-husband I could have multiples of orgasms of varying kinds. I am pretty sure my kundalini energy began rising with those intense sessions with him. My awareness of my physical body would explode into the cosmos and I felt totally dissolved into the All That Is. I was everywhere and nowhere at the same time - if you know what I mean - and I floated in Bliss. I'm thinking that could be where the author uses the shattering and splintering words to describe it.

I remember one of the last times he and I were together and after having many orgasms I lay there in bed in an altered state. I glanced over at his face as he lay there trying to recover from his orgasm and I saw a red tailed hawk hovering over his face with it's wings stretched out. Such a beautiful bird.... I was under the impression Hawk was one of his Spirit guides.

Anyway - when I talked with him about it he had no idea of what I was trying to tell him.

So do men have less of an orgasm experience than women? Of all the men I've been with...and there have been more than a few...I would have to agree that women CAN have better orgasms if they allow themselves to.
 
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