Anti-semitism

[muir]

Okay, you're saying that the Jewish people that were killed during the 20th century were implicit in their extermination because they could've just denounced their religion. Blocked forever, bye muir.

No that's not what i said...wow...you really don't listen do you?

I said that the nazis wanted to persecute the jews but they had trouble deciding who was a jew and who wasn't

Listen to the schlomo sand clip...he's an expert on this subject

It seems that the people the nazis were really going for were european ashkenazis

I don't think they were overly bothered about the jewish faith per se

I think they believed that a particularly warlike turkic people had moved into europe who were then subverting european countries through freemasonry, marxism and so on

eg marx and engels, rosa luxemburg, rothschilds, trotsky, lenin, freud, frankfurt school etc

funnily enough you can hear ashkenazis today talking about subverting european culture for example that barbara spectre clip i posted earlier or the work of the frankfurt school in US universities eg critical theory (aimed at undermining capitalist society) or the work of the CFR in trying to destroy the US on the path to a 'new world order'

 

[muir]

Oy Vey!

wow

i'm not sure what point you are trying to make with that picture

 

[muir]

Even the US is now saying that the settlements are illegal:

[video=youtube;ASQMD8L0E7o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=167&v=ASQMD8L0E7o[/video]

 

[just me]

Whatever, muir. I'm not looking any longer.

 

[muir]

Whatever, muir. I'm not looking any longer.

:lalala:

 

[muir]

http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/2015/6/7/david-aaronovitch-and-the-jewish-solidarity-industry

[h=1]David Aaronovitch And The Jewish Solidarity Industry[/h] June 07, 2015 / Gilad Atzmon

By Gilad Atzmon
“Zionist and most anti-Zionist Jews are captives of the same primeval Jewish mindset, and that it is this mindset that, in effect, provoked antisemitic reaction, right down to the Holocaust itself.” (David Aaronovitch, Jewish Chronicle)
David Aaronovitch, once Trotskyite, now neo-con but always advocate for Blair’s Zionist wars is alive and kicking. Yesterday in the Jewish Chronicle he found the time to attack Professor Oren Ben Dor for telling the truth about Israel and Jewish identity politics. In his Jewish Chronicle weekly column, the war-monger had the audacity to criticise Ben Dor, (himself a veteran Israeli submarine captain as well as a law scholar who found out about Jewish violence the hard way) for wishing to express his own political opinions about Jewish culture and identity politics.
Ben Dor’s crime, according to Aaronovitch, is obvious, he thinks like Atzmon. “One of the more unwelcome phenomena of recent life in the broad diaspora has been the appearance of a certain kind of Israeli exile who insists on telling us how bad Jews are.” Aaronvitch admits, he had not “anticipated that a senior academic at a British university was treading much the same intellectual path and linking demonic modern Zionism to demonic ancient Jewishness.”
But the news is not all bad. Reading Aaronovitch’s JC article I can now report that the Southampton Conference was a great success. In spite of the conference’s cancellation, Aaronovitch is himself now delivering the Atzmon/Ben Dor message to the Jews.
So here it is again: “Zionist and most anti-Zionist Jews are captives of the same primeval Jewish mindset, and that it is this mindset that, in effect, provoked antisemitic reaction, right down to the Holocaust itself.” Yes, Aaronovitch has himself finally grasped that instead of blaming the ‘Goyim,’ Jews would do well to look in the mirror and self-reflect.
Actually this thought is hardly original or unique to Ben Dor or to myself. It was actually an early Zionist mantra too. Herzl, Jabotinsky, Nordau, Lazare and others were deeply troubled by Jewish Diaspora identity. They promised to rid us of the Aaronovitches, the Lord Levys, the Jeffrey Epsteins and the Abe Foxmans and generally to ship them out of Europe and give the ‘Goyim’ a break. These early Zionists were (almost) spot on. They identified the problems at the heart of Jewish Diaspora secular identity. Unfortunately, they failed to solve the problem. They simply moved it to a new place; Palestine and the Middle East.
Whilst we’re on the subject of the Southampton Conference, here is an astonishing fact that has been kept very quiet since the cancelation of the Conference back on April 31st.
Throughout the vile Zionist campaign against the Conference and Prof Ben Dor, the British Palestinian Solidarity Campaign (PSC) remained silent as did Mondoweiss and JVP - the biggest Jewish pro Palestinian outlets. It seems these enthusiastic solidarity organisations only came to support ‘freedom of speech’ after 31 March that is, once the Conference had been cancelled. The reason is simple. Like rabid Zionist David Aaronovitch; PSC, JVP, Mondoweiss, Electronic Intifada, J-Big and even Ben White were troubled by the possibility that the Jewishness of the Jewish state might be openly examined and discussed. So, when their support was needed, they kept ‘strangely’ silent. They only stood out for ‘freedom of speech’ once the conference was cancelled.
Within the context of ‘Left solidarity’, one needs quite an imagination to see any difference between the hard core Zionists and those who call themselves ‘anti.’ The only real difference is that the Zionists are slightly more honest. Like Aaronovitch, Zionists celebrate the Jewish symptom in the open while our so-called ‘solidarity’ allies are working day and night suppressing the discussion of anything related to that symptom.




Watch David Aaronovitch reads Atzmon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc371iqJ5Jk

<span>[video=youtube;vc371iqJ5Jk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=193&amp;v=vc371iqJ5Jk[/video]

 

[muir]

http://rt.com/op-edge/265267-israel-palestine-crimes-children/

[h=1]Israel a criminal offender at large, UN listing or not [GRAPHIC IMAGES][/h] Eva Bartlett is a freelance journalist and rights activist who has lived in the Gaza Strip since late 2008.

Get short URL
Published time: June 05, 2015 16:22

Reuters/Ammar Awad



Tags
Army, Children, Conflict, Crime, Health, Human rights, Israel, Military, Politics, Security, UN, Violence, War

Reports have come out that the UN was considering adding Israel to the list of “grave violations against children in armed conflict.” As detailed below, Israeli army and Israel’s state policies are systematically violent against Palestinian children.
A recent Independent article noted that [Special Envoy for Children and Armed Conflict Leila] “Zerrougui’s draft report cited IDF attacks on schools and hospitals during the 2014 war in the Gaza Strip...”
Even though the UN has historically not taken strong action against any of Israel’s war crimes over the decades, let alone those specifically against Palestinian children, Israel has reportedly exerted pressure to be de-listed from the draft list, with seeming success.
The Independent wrote, “UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, however, is said to be leaning towards not including Israel in the list, amid what several diplomatic sources anonymously said was intense lobbying from Israel.”
Apparently, Israel thinks such call for its joining the list is “a heinous and hypocritical attempt to besmirch the image of Israel and it is doomed to fail,” Foreign Ministry spokesman Emmanuel Nahshon reportedly said.
In fact, the UN should have listed Israel from at least 2009 when, as the UN website notes, “the Security Council decided to also list armed forces and groups who kill and maim children, commit sexual violence against children, and attack schools and hospitals.”
Does Israel violate the six areas detailed? Five out of six, most definitely:
- Killing or maiming of children; [See below]
- Sexual violence against children; [The Israeli army routinely threatens and enacts sexual abuse of Palestinian children]
- Attacks against schools or hospitals; [The Israeli army routinely fires ammunition and tear gas at Palestinian schools; it has repeatedly bombed schools and hospitals in Gaza]
- Abduction of children; [See below]
- Denial of humanitarian access for children. [Israel's blockade on Gaza strangles the medical sector; Israel routinely denies exit to Palestinians ( including children) for medical care outside of Gaza; the illegal wall Israel has constructed throughout much of the West Bank prevents Palestinians (including children) from accessing medical care.] [see also: Al Mezan Releases Factsheet on Gazan Children’s Access to Medical Care]
- Recruitment or use of children by armed forces and groups; [This is the one point which strictly speaking doesn’t apply. However, the Israeli army has used Palestinian children as human shields]
Members of the Israeli army themselves have admitted various crimes. A Breaking the Silence report “Children and Youth - Soldiers' Testimonies 2005-2011” noted:
“This booklet reveals how physical violence is often exerted against children, whether in response to accusations of stone-throwing or, more often, arbitrarily.”
Further testimonies following the the July/August 2014 war on Gaza highlight the brutality meted out on Palestinians (including children).

[h=2]Killing or maiming of children[/h] Having between November 2008 and March 2013 lived a cumulative three years in the Gaza Strip, including during two Israeli waged massacres of Palestinians in Gaza, I present three (of too many) cases of Israel targeting children, of which I have personal knowledge.
On January 4, 2009, Shahed Abu Halima lay cradled in her mother's arms, the family terrorized like Palestinians all over Gaza by incessant Israeli bombing. Their area, al-Atatra, west of Beit Lahiya in northern Gaza, was particularly hard-hit, and had been invaded by Israeli tanks. Of the two shells that hit baby Shahed's home, at least one was white phosphorous, raining clumps of the chemical weapon down on the family. The flames which enveloped Shahed's body were not extinguishable, nor could her mother Sabah see through the smoke and flames to reach the infant. Shahed's dog-eaten, charred corpse was only found days later when Palestinian medics were finally allowed to enter the area. [see: Next Time It Will Hurt More]

Farah Abu Halima, 3, severely burned by Israeli-fired White Phosphorus, January 4, 2009 (Photo by Eva Bartlett)

Also on January 4, 2009, Shireen Abu Helou continued nursing her dying baby, Farah (“joy” in Arabic), in a futile effort to bring the infant comfort while her family took cover from Israeli fire behind a bulldozed dirt mound in the Zeitoun district just south of Gaza City (infamous for the herding of entire families from the Samouni clan into one building and repeatedly bombing it; infamous for the point blank shootings of individuals, including 4-year-old Ahmed shot dead after crying about his father’s execution). One-year-old Farah did not survive the Israeli sniper's bullet to her abdomen, her intestines falling out as she bled to death over the course of a few hours. [see: They Killed Me Three Times]
On November 21, 2012, a 14-year-old boy asked his father for 10 shekels, to go to the small store up the road to buy food for his siblings who hadn't eaten anything but bread for the past five days of Israeli bombing. The bombing had not quite stopped, but Nader Abu Mghaseeb believed he was safe, a ceasefire due to be enforced in just under two hours. He was incorrect. Minutes after the precision drone strike hit Nader, his father rushed out to find the dying, tangled mass of flesh that had been his son.
In Deir al-Balah's al-Aqsa hospital, I saw the teen's mangled corpse brought in. His stunned father stood outside trying to comprehend that Israeli-fired, precision drone technology had obliterated his clearly unarmed 14-year-old son. [see: Killing before the Calm: “Israeli” Attacks on Palestinian Civilians Escalated before Cease-fire]
Two years and many Palestinian child martyrs and maimings later, during the July/August 2014 Israeli massacre of Gaza, four small boys ran for their lives across an empty Gaza beach as the Israeli navy chased them with shelling, eventually hitting their prey. The shelling of the Bakr boys, aged nine to 11, was recorded by a number of Palestinian and foreign journalists camped out at the nearby Deira hotel, many of whom broke down at witnessing this savagery.
Of the July/August Israeli massacre of Gaza, Defense for Children International-Palestine's (DCI-Palestine) April 16, 2015 report noted:
“DCIP independently verified the deaths of 547 Palestinian children among the killed in Gaza, 535 of them as a direct result of Israeli attacks. Nearly 68 percent of the children killed by Israeli forces were 12 years old or younger. Those who survived these attacks will continue to pay the price for many years. More than 1,000 children suffered injuries that rendered them permanently disabled, according to OCHA.”
The assault on Palestinian children is, of course, not merely limited to its times of bombing Gaza. Almost daily in Gaza's border regions and on the sea, children are machine-gunned and shelled by the genocidal bully of the region, under the pretext of “security.” Having witnessed this on countless occasions, myself under fire with the brave farmers, I can say one hundred percent affirmatively that they posed no security threat to the well-armed Israeli army (nor navy).
In the rest of occupied Palestine, whether during the criminal routine Israeli army invasions and lock-downs of West Bank and Jerusalem areas, or during demonstrations against the illegal Wall stealing yet more Palestinian land, or merely randomly, Palestinian children are targeted by Israeli live ammunition, tear gas canisters, and hands-on brutality, not only by the so-called “most morale army” but also the unspoken of proxy soldiers: those vile, racist, illegal Jewish colonists who (claiming God's approval) abuse Palestinians of all ages, without consequences.
Early in the morning of July 2, 2014, Mohammed Abu Khdeir went missing while going to mosque for morning prayers in occupied Jerusalem. His slight body was found a few hours later charred and beaten. Before his Jewish colonist tormentors poured gas down his throat and lit him alive, they beat he the 16 year old with a blunt object to his head. The autopsy report “showed soot in the victim's lungs and respiratory tract, indicating he was alive and breathing while he was being burnt.”

Reham Nabaheen, 4, killed by Israeli shrapnel to her head, November 21, 2012 (Photo by Eva Bartlett)

The systematic brutality of Israel's colonists and Israeli soldiers against Palestinians is met with virtually no reprimand by Israel. On their “Settler violence: Lack of accountability,” rights group B'Tselem noted in 2011 (updated January 2013):
“When Israelis harm Palestinians, the authorities implement an undeclared policy of forgiveness, compromise, and leniency in punishment. Israeli security forces have done little to prevent settler violence or to arrest offenders. Many acts of violence have never been investigated; in other cases, investigations have been drawn out and resulted in no action being taken against anyone.”
In November 2013, Palestinian rights group Al Haq issued a new report (“Institutionalised Impunity: Israel’s Failure to Combat Settler Violence in the Occupied Palestinian Territory”) and noted:
“According to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, the number of settler attacks resulting in Palestinian casualties and property damage increased by over 144 percent in 2011, compared to 2009. In 2013, the report of the United Nations International Fact-Finding Mission on Settlements highlighted the failure of the Israeli authorities to enforce the law by investigating such incidents and taking measures against their perpetrators. The Fact-Finding Mission came to the "clear conclusion that there is institutionalised discrimination against the Palestinian people when it comes to addressing violence. Acts of settler violence are intended, organised, and publicly represented to influence the political decisions of Israeli State authorities.”
Throughout the West Bank and Jerusalem, Jewish colonists routinely run over Palestinian children. Two examples include an October 2014 hit and run near Ramallah of two 5 year old Palestinian girls, one of whom—Inas Shawkat Khalil—died from her injuries.
[h=2]Child abduction and imprisonment[/h] According to Addameer Prisoner Support and Human Rights Association's April 2015 update, 182 Palestinian children are imprisoned by Israel, including 26 under the age of 16. They note that“8,000 Palestinian children have been arrested since 2000.”
DCI-Palestine notes:
“Israel is the only country in the world that automatically prosecutes children in military courts that lack basic and fundamental fair trial guarantees. Interrogations tend to be coercive, including a variety of verbal abuse, threats and physical violence that ultimately result in a confession.”
They further note that most Israeli-imprisoned Palestinian children are nabbed in the middle of the night, something youths from Resistance villages like Bil'in are well-familiar with. Bil'in, known for its popular demonstrations against the illegal, land-grabbing Wall, has lost many a martyr, including children to Israel's brutal attempts at stifling dissent (On that note: to all the media that leapt on the false, “Bashar is killing unarmed protesters band-wagon,” Israel is actually doing so).
That the UN is even considering not including Israel on the list speaks further volumes to the uselessness of this institution, a body that serves only to put the odd band-aid on the seeping Palestinian wound and to endorse criminal bombings of sovereign nations.
In any case, Israel need not worry that anyone is trying to “besmirch” its reputation. It has proven quite adept at doing that all on its own. Every blown-off Palestinian child's head, every Palestinian child behind Israeli bars, every Mohammed Abu Khdair tortured and killed by Jewish colonists, and every colonists’ intentional running over of Palestinian children “besmirches” what is left of the racist, genocidal state's reputation, with or without UN recognition.
The statements, views and opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of RT.

 

[muir]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/israels-race-to-economic-and-moral-bankruptcy/5455958

[h=2]Israel’s Race to Economic and Moral Bankruptcy[/h] By Jonathan Cook
Global Research, June 16, 2015

Two recent reports suggest that Israel could face catastrophic consequences if it fails to end the mistreatment of Palestinians under its rule, whether in the occupied territories or in Israel itself.
The Rand Corporation’s research shows that Israel could lose $250 billion over the next decade if it fails to make peace with the Palestinians and violence escalates. Ending the occupation, on the other hand, could bring a dividend of more than $120 billion to the nation’s coffers.
Meanwhile, the Israeli finance ministry predicts an even more dismal future unless Israel reinvents itself. It is likely to be bankrupt within a few decades, the finance ministry report says, because of the rapid growth of two groups who are not productive.
By 2059, half the population will be either ultra-Orthodox Jews, who prefer prayer to work, or members of Israel’s Palestinian minority, most of whom are failed by their separate education system and then excluded from much of the economy.
Both reports should be generating a tidal wave of concern in Israel but have caused barely a ripple. The status quo – of occupation and endemic racism – still seems preferable to most Israelis.
The explanation requires a much deeper analysis than either the Rand Corporation or Israel’s finance ministry appears capable of.
The finance ministry report points out that with a growing population not properly prepared for a modern, global economy, the tax burden is falling increasingly heavily on a shrinking middle class.
The fear is that this will rapidly create a vicious cycle. Wealthier Israelis tend to have second passports. Overwhelmed by the need to make up the revenue shortfall, they will leave, plunging Israel into irreversible debt.
Despite this doomsday scenario, Israel seems far from ready to undertake the urgent restructuring needed to salvage its economy. Zionism, Israel’s official ideology, is predicated on core principles of ethnic separation, Judaisation of territory and Hebrew labour. It has always depended on the marginalisation at best, exclusion at worst, of non-Jews.
Any effort to dismantle the scaffolding of a Jewish state would create a political crisis. Reforms may happen, but they are likely to take place too slowly and incrementally to make much difference.
The Rand report also raises the alarm. It notes that both peoples would benefit from peace, though the incentive is stronger for Palestinians. Integration into the Middle East would see average wages rise by only 5 per cent for Israelis, compared to 36 per cent for Palestinians.
But, while its economists may have found it easy to quantify the benefits of ending the occupation, it is much harder to assess the costs in shekels and dollars.
Over the past six decades, an economic elite has emerged in Israel whose prestige, power and wealth depends on the occupation. Career military officers earn large salaries and retire in their early forties on generous pensions. Nowadays many of these officers live in the settlements.
The army top brass are the ultimate pressure group and will not release their grip on the occupied territories without a fight, one they are well placed to win.
Backing them will be those in the hi-tech sector who have become the engine of the Israeli economy. Many are former soldiers who realised the occupied territories were the ideal laboratory for developing and testing military hardware and software.
Israel’s excellence in weaponry, surveillance systems, containment strategies, biometric data collection, crowd control, and psychological warfare are all marketable. Israeli know-how has become indispensible to the global appetite for “homeland security”.
That expertise was on show this month at a Tel Aviv armaments expo that attracted thousands of security officials from around the world, drawn by the selling point that the systems on offer were “combat proven”.
To end the occupation would be to sacrifice all this and revert to the status of a tiny anonymous state with no resources or notable exports.
And finally the settlers are among the most ideologically committed and entitled sector of Israel’s population. Were they moved out, they would bring their group cohesion and profound resentments back into Israel.
No Israeli leader wants to unleash a civil war that could rip apart the already-fragile sense of unity among the Jewish population.
The reality is that most Israelis’ perception of their national interests, both as a Jewish state and as military superpower, are intimately tied to a permanent occupation and the exclusion of Israel’s Palestinian minority from true citizenship.
If there is a conclusion to be drawn from these two reports it may be a pessimistic one.
Israel’s internal economy is likely to grow gradually weaker, as the ultra-Orthodox and Palestinian labour forces are under-utilised. As a result, the focus of Israel’s economic interests and activity is likely to shift even more towards the occupied territories.
Far from Israelis rethinking their oppressive policies towards the Palestinians, the ideological blinkers imposed by Zionism could push them to pursue the benefits of the occupation even more aggressively.
If the watching world really wants peace, economic wishful thinking will not suffice. It is past the time simply for carrots. Sticks are needed too.
Jonathan Cook won the Martha Gellhorn Special Prize for Journalism. His latest books are “Israel and the Clash of Civilisations: Iraq, Iran and the Plan to Remake the Middle East” (Pluto Press) and “Disappearing Palestine: Israel’s Experiments in Human Despair” (Zed Books). His website iswww.jonathan-cook.net.
A version of this article first appeared in the National, Abu Dhabi.

 

[muir]

[h=1]1/2 - Judaism vs Jewish Identity Politics - Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro and Gilad Atzmon[/h]

[video=youtube;OXBuUqPndqg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXBuUqPndqg[/video]

 

[muir]

http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/06/14/415865/Israel-Gaza-war-UN-report-Benjamin-Netanyahu

[h=2]Tel Aviv moves to block release of UN report on Israeli war crimes[/h]
Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:29PM

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is seen during a weekly cabinet meeting in Tel Aviv, June 14, 2015. (AP)

Tel Aviv seeks to prevent the release of the findings of a UN investigation into Israeli war crimes against Palestinians in Gaza, with the prime minister of the regime labeling such a move as a “waste of time.”
Addressing Israeli ministers on Sunday, Benjamin Netanyahu claimed that “whoever wants a baseless automatic accusation against Israel can waste their time reading the UN report.”
The UN Human Rights Council (HRC) is due later in June to publish the findings of the probe into Tel Aviv’s war crimes during the latest Israeli military aggression against the blockaded Gaza Strip in the summer of 2014.
The remarks by Netanyahu signal Tel Aviv’s attempt to preempt the release of the findings, which was postponed in March.
The Israeli premier also blamed the Palestinian resistance movement Hamas for civilian casualties in the Gaza war.
On Sunday, Israel issued its own report on the latest war, defending its crimes against the people of Gaza. The report cites Western leaders who have expressed support for the military action. It also claims that Israel did its utmost to avoid civilian casualties in the war.
Tel Aviv has boycotted the HRC investigators. The regime took a similar action when the council probed its 2008-9 war on Gaza. Israel was accused of war crimes after the previous inquiry.
Meanwhile, Palestinians rejected the findings of the Israeli report on the 2014 war, saying Israel is trying to clear itself of the crimes it committed during the 50-day aggression.

“Israel’s decision to deny having targeted civilians in Gaza is the logical extension of what it did in the Gaza Strip,” said Ihab Bseiso, a spokesman for the Palestinian government in Ramallah, on Sunday.
​

In reaction to the Israeli report, Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri stated, “The report turns the truth and is valueless because part of these crimes was committed live in front of the cameras, apart from the huge amount of martyrs, wounded and wide destruction that confirm that these crimes were deliberate.”

A Palestinian boy walks on May 27, 2015 in the town of Beit Hanun in front of buildings that were destroyed during the 50-day Israeli war of summer 2014 on the Gaza Strip. (AFP photo)More than 2,130 Palestinians lost their lives and some 11,000 were injured in the Israeli war on Gaza. The victims included about 580 children and nearly 260 women, according to Gaza health officials.
Nabil Shaath, a senior Palestinian official and former chief negotiator, said the Israeli report was “sickening and outrageous.”
Israelis kill another Palestinian in West Bank
On the same day that Israel issued its “outrageous” report on the war on Gaza, a 21-year-old Palestinian man, Abdullah Ghanayem, was shot dead by Israeli forces during clashes in the village of Kufor Malik, northeast of the occupied West Bank city of Ramallah. The Israelis stormed the village to detain a number of Palestinians during the early hours of Sunday.
A massive funeral was held for Ghanayem later in the day.

Mourners carry the body of 21-year-old Palestinian man Abdullah Ghanayem during his funeral in the village of Kufor Malik, northeast of Ramallah, the occupied West Bank, June 14, 2015. (AFP photo)Local Palestinian sources said an Israeli military vehicle turned over in the course of clashes with the Palestinians in the village and landed on the dead body of Ghanayem.
Raiding homes in the occupied West Bank and arresting Palestinians have become a routine for Israeli forces.
MRA/HSN/AS

 

[just me]

Hatred stems from ignorance.

 

[muir]

Hatred stems from ignorance.

sure

Underlying respect is about both sides feeling that the other side doesn't want to destroy them

So if humanity is going to be able to work together then all sides need to feel like the other sides aren't concealing a desire to destroy them

So.....do christian zionists harbour any desires to destroy anyone eg iranians, palestineans etc? Because if they do then they lack the underlying respect for their fellow man that is required for peaceful cooperation

if non-christian zionists harbour desires to destroy other people such as the palestineans or the iranians then they also have no underlying respect and peace will not be able to flourish

If you watch that clip above of gilad atzmon and rabbi Shapiro talking you can see how two people can disagree but still cooperate peacefully, share space, look eye to eye, laugh together and shake hands as long as there is always an underlying respect

And underlying respect is about believing that the other person(s) are reasonable and aren't out to destroy you

A reasonable person can be debated with and compromises can be thrashed out with them safe in the knowledge that they respect you on a fundamental level as a fellow human being and as such they recognise your rights to the same health, happiness and security that you want for yourself

That underlying respect should be the foundation of all discussions as when it is absent conflict ensues. for this reason people should not support people who clearly show that they lack that underlying respect for other people such as war mongers

 

[JJJA]

So, aside from all of the smearing of Israel and of the Palestinians (although mostly of Israel, what a surprise), I think I'll give my input despite this thread looking a bit past its expiry date.

Anti-Semitism, just like racism and fascism, has always existed and is just another form of bigotry we must all try to snuff out. And, naturally, the biggest example can be found with Adolf Hitler, who managed to wipe out entire generations and nations of Jews. Although, today it seems to have made a rather large shift. While it is still evidently present in European countries, the conflicts with Israel and Palestine, you cannot deny, has continued to fuel a new line of Islamic bigotry toward Jewish settlers in Israel. Now, I know this is a very unpopular topic on any forum, but I just want to make an important distinction. That is, between those that consider themselves Zionists (Another form of narrow-minded Nationalism) and will do nothing to stop their efforts to defend the state of Israel no matter what the event or outcome may be. And between those that simply wish to criticize a few actions from the representatives of the state of Israel for any miscalculated act of diplomacy or military intervention upon Palestinian citizens. The latter group of people are often misidentified and misconstrued as 'anti-Semites' for their open-minded criticism. These two distinctions must be made if any two-state solution is to prove successful.

Then, you have another distinction to make, and that is with the Palestinians. On the one hand, you have the citizens of the Palestinians, who by mere chance and reluctance of self-improvement, wish to simply live in peace and out of harms way in a peaceful state and practice whatever religion they wish to practice and not bother anyone else. Then, you have members of the Palestinian territories which include (and I do not use this word lightly) internationally-proclaimed terrorist organizations like Hamas, which now operates as the official government of the Gaza Strip. Other organizations include Hezbollah in Lebanon, Boko Haram in Africa, and of course ISIS/IS/ISIL in Iraq and Syria. The support of these organizations is a matter of speculation, however I could bring up an interesting report by the American think-tank 'Pew Research Center' on the Islamic population of the globe and what they believe in, in terms of religion and political strife. This report indicates many interesting conclusions, and certainly refutes the pathetic claim by some Muslims that Islam is a 'religion of peace'. However, that is a different discussion entirely.

What I think needs to be understood are these fundamental distinctions and why they must be made. My big reason is to form a link between the Islamic-fundamentalist organizations and antisemitism. These organizations want to wipe out Israel from the face of the earth because Jews live there. An entirely Islamic form of antisemitism has allowed to brood for too long in these locations and amongst these religious individuals, based on highly superstitious beliefs, scripture founded on the totalitarian worship of an illiterate warlord in Arabia (Prophet Muhammad) leading to forced conversions (ISIS and Christians is a good example). I could go on. Adolf Hitler made several efforts to form deep relationship ties to the leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood in the 1930s and 40s. The largest Waffen-SS division of Hitler's war machine was made up of solely Bosnian Muslims, under the banner of an Ottoman Empire scimitar: officially named the 13th Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Handschar, committed to anti-partisan operations. The Muslim Brotherhood also actively disseminated Hitler's book Mein Kampf and there are a wide-range of post-war documents which indicate a highly-strung campaign against the allied powers and an allegiance to Hitler and his hatred of Jews. Hitler respected the Muslims for their bravery and almost unrelenting will to die for what they believed in.

Does this ring any bells?

 

[muir]

So, aside from all of the smearing of Israel and of the Palestinians (although mostly of Israel, what a surprise), I think I'll give my input despite this thread looking a bit past its expiry date.

Anti-Semitism, just like racism and fascism, has always existed and is just another form of bigotry we must all try to snuff out. And, naturally, the biggest example can be found with Adolf Hitler, who managed to wipe out entire generations and nations of Jews.

Hitler managed to wipe out whole 'nations' of jews?

Really? What were these jewish nations he wiped out?

Also that is quite an acheivement for one man...no?

Also can you explain to me how the figure of jews that supposedly died in aushwitz could be dropped from over 4 million to 1 million in 1991 in the aushwitz museum and yet the offical over all figure of jews supposedly killed wasn't lowered at the same time from the original 6 million?

The 6 million figure did exist at the time of course but it related to the number of germans who were unemployed in the 1930's prior to the nazis coming to power

Although, today it seems to have made a rather large shift. While it is still evidently present in European countries, the conflicts with Israel and Palestine, you cannot deny, has continued to fuel a new line of Islamic bigotry toward Jewish settlers in Israel.

'islamic bigotry'?

woah....hold on a minute! When you say 'islamic bigotry' are you referring to how some of the surrounding islamic countries are upset at being flooded with millions of palestineans who have been violently shunted off their land by zionists?

Also is the violent genociding of muslims not bigotry on the part of the zionists?

Now, I know this is a very unpopular topic on any forum, but I just want to make an important distinction. That is, between those that consider themselves Zionists (Another form of narrow-minded Nationalism) and will do nothing to stop their efforts to defend the state of Israel no matter what the event or outcome may be. And between those that simply wish to criticize a few actions from the representatives of the state of Israel for any miscalculated act of diplomacy or military intervention upon Palestinian citizens. The latter group of people are often misidentified and misconstrued as 'anti-Semites' for their open-minded criticism. These two distinctions must be made if any two-state solution is to prove successful.

The zionits do not want a 2 state solution....they want to drive the palestineans off the land and grab the land and its resources eg gas for themselves

They could have achieved peace by now but they don't want to!

they can get away with this because the US (controlled by rothschild banking network) gives Israel over $3 billion of US taxpayer money every year in aid and also blocks any UN resolution aimed at curbing Israeli excesses

It is because of US support that Israel can carry out its genocide

The boycott of israeli goods as a way to force a peaceful compromise is a good one but the US will oppose that because it is run by zionist interests

Then, you have another distinction to make, and that is with the Palestinians. On the one hand, you have the citizens of the Palestinians, who by mere chance and reluctance of self-improvement, wish to simply live in peace and out of harms way in a peaceful state and practice whatever religion they wish to practice and not bother anyone else. Then, you have members of the Palestinian territories which include (and I do not use this word lightly) internationally-proclaimed terrorist organizations like Hamas, which now operates as the official government of the Gaza Strip.

There are those that would argue that Hamas is the creation of israel as a way to ensure continued antagonism and ensure peace remains out of reach

Other organizations include Hezbollah in Lebanon,

Hezbollah would say they are there to protect Lebanon which has been repeatedly invaded by israel

Boko Haram in Africa, and of course ISIS/IS/ISIL in Iraq and Syria.

Boko Haram and ISIS were both created by the zionists NOT the muslims

They are the creatures of Mossad and the CIA

The support of these organizations is a matter of speculation, however I could bring up an interesting report by the American think-tank 'Pew Research Center' on the Islamic population of the globe and what they believe in, in terms of religion and political strife. This report indicates many interesting conclusions, and certainly refutes the pathetic claim by some Muslims that Islam is a 'religion of peace'. However, that is a different discussion entirely.

I think that many muslims are upset at the constant western murdering of muslims in muslim lands eg in the midddle east and the stealing of muslim resources eg oil

What I think needs to be understood are these fundamental distinctions and why they must be made. My big reason is to form a link between the Islamic-fundamentalist organizations and antisemitism. These organizations want to wipe out Israel from the face of the earth because Jews live there.

Nonsense

Jews ALWAYS LIVED THERE!

jews were living side by side with muslims and christians peacefully until the secular zionists arrived

Muslims do not want to wipe out jews but they cannot recognise a purely jewish state because to do so would be to deny the right of muslims and christians to also live in those lands

The zionist media twists words and meanings to conceal this

An entirely Islamic form of antisemitism has allowed to brood for too long in these locations and amongst these religious individuals, based on highly superstitious beliefs, scripture founded on the totalitarian worship of an illiterate warlord in Arabia (Prophet Muhammad) leading to forced conversions (ISIS and Christians is a good example). I could go on. Adolf Hitler made several efforts to form deep relationship ties to the leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood in the 1930s and 40s. The largest Waffen-SS division of Hitler's war machine was made up of solely Bosnian Muslims, under the banner of an Ottoman Empire scimitar: officially named the 13th Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Handschar, committed to anti-partisan operations. The Muslim Brotherhood also actively disseminated Hitler's book Mein Kampf and there are a wide-range of post-war documents which indicate a highly-strung campaign against the allied powers and an allegiance to Hitler and his hatred of Jews. Hitler respected the Muslims for their bravery and almost unrelenting will to die for what they believed in.

Does this ring any bells?

It rings warning bells and makes me wonder why the entire planet except for the US and various puppet governments in canada, UK and australia are all wary of the zionists

 

[just me]

Tubular Bells!

He was angered when the Jewish folk would not proclaim him a prophet of God.


[video=youtube;HB00PMz6SX8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB00PMz6SX8[/video]

There are also those who stand on history and truth.

 

[muir]

Tubular Bells!

He was angered when the Jewish folk would not proclaim him a prophet of God.


[video=youtube;HB00PMz6SX8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB00PMz6SX8[/video]

There are also those who stand on history and truth.

who was angered?

do you mean jesus?

isn't that the dude you're supposed to be rooting for? (as a self declared christian)

 

[just me]

muir, you are so confused once again. Take a break and buy some new kicks.

 

[muir]

muir, you are so confused once again. Take a break and buy some new kicks.

well why don't you cut the cryptic shit then and just speak plainly?

 

[just me]

Study and research for yourself and stop believing everything.

 

[muir]

Study and research for yourself and stop believing everything.

I am the one who has done his research, that's why i'm the one posting relevant information and you are the one posting pictures of shoes

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ves-and-fishes-church-in-tabgha-10329998.html

[h=1]Jewish extremists suspected of torching Sea of Galilee 'loaves and fishes' church in Tabgha[/h]

[h=3]Words from a Jewish prayer urging the 'cutting down' of idol worshippers were daubed in red paint on a wall outside
[/h]
Ben Lynfield

jerusalem


Thursday 18 June 2015



A fire believed to have been started by Jewish extremists has badly damaged a church on the Sea of Galilee built on the site where Christian tradition holds that Jesus performed the miracle of feeding five thousand people with two fish and five loaves of bread.

The Roman Catholic Church of the Multiplication of the Loaves and Fish at Tabgha was extensively damaged “both inside and out” by the fire, according to police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld.
Father Matthias Karl, a German monk from the church, told reporters that an office for pilgrims, a souvenir shop and a meeting room were heavily damaged and bibles and prayer books were burnt. However, the prayer area was not harmed, he said.


Words from a Jewish prayer urging the “cutting down” of idol worshippers were daubed in red paint on a wall outside the church. Firefighters determined that the blaze had broken out in several places.

The fire is believed to have been started by Jewish extremists. Israeli leaders quickly and vigorously condemned the hate crime (EPA)
Israeli leaders quickly and vigorously condemned the hate crime, with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu terming it “appalling”. But Catholic leaders suggested it may have been enabled by what they claim has been a lax Israeli policy towards such actions in the past.
“We had incidents including at Tabgha and Dormition Abbey where Israeli authorities didn’t do enough to stop them, so we expected such a crime and this may continue if the authorities don’t take concrete steps to stop it, to show they are serious in protecting the holy places in the Holy Land,” said Father Jamal Khader, rector of the Latin Patriarchate Seminary in Beit Jalla in the West Bank.
Last year, a group of mostly Jewish youth attacked the Church of the Multiplication of the Loaves and Fish outdoor prayer area, pelting worshippers with stones, destroying a cross and throwing benches into a fire, Father Karl told the Associated Press.
In January 2014, vandals punctured the tyres of cars and scrawled anti-Christian graffiti on a Catholic monastery at Deir Rafat, near the town of Beit Shemesh.
In May 2014, a Romanian Orthodox church in Jerusalem was defaced with graffiti saying “Jesus is garbage”. Shortly before that, graffiti was scrawled on the Notre Dame Centre in Jerusalem saying: “Death to Arabs and Christians and those who hate Israel.”
In April, a Maronite Catholic cemetery was vandalised in northern Israel. The attacks have also targeted mosques, with vandals four months ago setting fire to one in Jaba village near Bethlehem. They left behind graffiti with a star of David and the word “revenge”.


According to Tag Meir, an Israeli anti-racism group, there have been no indictments in connection with these attacks or 36 others against churches, monasteries and mosques in the past three years.
“Punishing these crimes is not a priority for the authorities,” said Yossi Saidov, a Tag Meir activist. “The message that comes down from the Prime Minister to the individual policeman is that it’s all right that this happens, it’s not so terrible.”
“If 43 synagogues were attacked in Poland and the authorities didn’t stop it, we would scream that it was anti-Semitism and rightly so,” Mr Saidov said.
Mr Netanyahu’s office said he has instructed the Shin Bet intelligence agency chief Yoram Cohen to carry out an “expedited” investigation of the Tabgha fire. Mr Netanyahu said “This appalling arson against a church is an attack on all of us. Freedom of worship in Israel is one of the foundation stones of our values and is enshrined in the law. We will fulfill the law against those responsible for this criminal action. Hatred and intolerance have no place in our society.”
Mr Rosenfeld said that police detained 16 youths from a West Bank settlement for questioning to check if they were linked to the church attack and then released them.