Are Non-INFJs Still Welcome Here?

[Eventhorizon]

My thought is that just because hate, dishonest, underhanded and other terms like it are used doesn't mean they are being used correctly. Just because someone feels something doesn't mean that feeling is correct or even relevant.
I'm pretty amazed myself that some people seem to think just because they have a feeling it's important on it's own merit.
Having said that I am appreciative of those infjs who make their best effort to have real conversations.

 

[James]

My thought is that just because hate, dishonest, underhanded and other terms like it are used doesn't mean they are being used correctly. Just because someone feels something doesn't mean that feeling is correct or even relevant.
I'm pretty amazed myself that some people seem to think just because they have a feeling it's important on it's own merit.
Having said that I am appreciative of those infjs who make their best effort to have real conversations.

In part I agree with you and in part I dont. I think 'feelings' are important, and that even those who are very heavily inclinded to their thinking preference are influenced by them. Sadly I think those who disregard their 'emotinal well being' often find themselves unhappy and puzzled by why. Their success in obtaining wealth, possessions and status do not satisfy them in their entirety. Similarly those who only ever react/follow their emotions equally struggle to maintain a sense of happiness and balance.

I always like reading your posts EH and I very much appreciate INTJs and other types. For the record, I'm not really a fan of Jazz but i like the idea that it exists and occasionally I listen to it. Variety is the spice of life some say. I'm inclined to agree with that.

 

[La Sagna]

My thought is that just because hate, dishonest, underhanded and other terms like it are used doesn't mean they are being used correctly. Just because someone feels something doesn't mean that feeling is correct or even relevant.
I'm pretty amazed myself that some people seem to think just because they have a feeling it's important on it's own merit.
Having said that I am appreciative of those infjs who make their best effort to have real conversations.

I agree with you that because someone calls you something doesn't make you so, that is just their impression of you. However, you can't stop them from feeling that way, but you also don't have to accept it as relevant to you.

However, feelings are always relevant to the person who is feeling. Just because they are not important to you doesn't mean that they are not important or shouldn't be important to the person who is feeling them.
Feelings can cloud rational arguments, but dismissal of feelings can render discussions on matters of human nature and humanity in general less valid because feeling is at the core of being human, even for those who claim they have no or little feelings.

 

[Sloe Djinn]

It's a mental surprise and recoil when someone casts a nasty light on something which is just nice/neutral in a run of the mill kind of way.

Example:
* You're planning a relative's funeral and ask if it should be an open casket, so people can make their goodbyes. I'd be highly uncomfortable if someone said something about "there being necrophiliacs out there." It casts a dark shadow over things.

Similarly, it's highly off putting the way people bandy about terms like "hatred", "underhanded" and other stuff on a social forum. It casts a repellent shadow.

The example I get, but I'm not as convinced about the assertions it's wrapped in. It just doesn't sound like you're as genuinely offended as you're making out to be. Of course, that's just an opinion and perhaps beside the point. I notice that more-often than other members, you tend to make new threads that highlight the overarching topics of dispute or disagreement that you have with other forum members without necessarily naming them. Is this to process personally, to call them out indirectly, or to gauge public opinion?

 

[Sinny]

I really don't see Fe users as constantly using the word hate. In my view it's the actual expression of hated in thought and deed, that is more troubling. Those who wish to impose their views and will on others and are dishonest and underhand in doing so.

Since this is an infj forum, it's a poor place to try to do that. Whilst I truly hope all mbti types feel welcome, if I go to a Jazz club I'm not shocked by hearing Jazz music. I wouldn't expect them to play indie rock, or classical music because I prefer it.

I take it that's why one staff member over here decided to take their beef with me to INTPforum?

Oh the hypocrisy deafens my ears... Don't think just because a couple of twats over there deleted my account that I don't actually have friends over there keeping me in the loop.

It's a mental surprise and recoil when someone casts a nasty light on something which is just nice/neutral in a run of the mill kind of way.

Example:
* You're planning a relative's funeral and ask if it should be an open casket, so people can make their goodbyes. I'd be highly uncomfortable if someone said something about "there being necrophiliacs out there." It casts a dark shadow over things.

Similarly, it's highly off putting the way people bandy about terms like "hatred", "underhanded" and other stuff on a social forum. It casts a repellent shadow.

Exactly.. What I have learned from this endeavor is that it's okay for INFJs to go off on aggressive, hate filled rants to try and encourage the censorship of none INFJs, but you are not allowed to call them out on it, because all of a sudden that's "disrespectful".

What is "disrespect"? And how do I treat somebody respectfully whilst telling them that they are spitting their dummy out? If simply tagging them in a picture saying as much is considered "disrespectful" .

But at least I wasn't the only one who noticed all those belligerent rants.
I thought the staffs priority would be to shut that member up and stop him from potentially scaring away your none INFJ members... But apparently not.

 

[Eventhorizon]

I agree with you that because someone calls you something doesn't make you so, that is just their impression of you. However, you can't stop them from feeling that way, but you also don't have to accept it as relevant to you.

However, feelings are always relevant to the person who is feeling. Just because they are not important to you doesn't mean that they are not important or shouldn't be important to the person who is feeling them.
Feelings can cloud rational arguments, but dismissal of feelings can render discussions on matters of human nature and humanity in general less valid because feeling is at the core of being human, even for those who claim they have no or little feelings.

I agree.

 

[Eventhorizon]

I would just like to say that regardless of the hypocrisy here (and I see it as quite a bit) this place is still better than almost every other forum I have been on. Its one of the reasons I stay here. I'd like to think those people who are being unreasonable are recognized as so. If not though I don't really concern myself with it. I feel that most people here are reasonable.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

The example I get, but I'm not as convinced about the assertions it's wrapped in. It just doesn't sound like you're as genuinely offended as you're making out to be. Of course, that's just an opinion and perhaps beside the point. I notice that more-often than other members, you tend to make new threads that highlight the overarching topics of dispute or disagreement that you have with other forum members without necessarily naming them. Is this to process personally, to call them out indirectly, or to gauge public opinion?

I make a separate thread when there's a topic I'm interested in. Sometimes I'd like to take up a topic which is incidental to an existing thread, but instead of derailing I create a separate thread.

This thread is an offshoot to a few INFJs making comments that non-INFJs don't belong here, and the liking of those posts by some other members and staff.

(On the point of offence, I did not claim to be offended in what you quoted; those are your words, not mine. I find it offensive that you are making a straw man assertion about my post: claiming that my offence is not genuine in it, when I did not even touch the subject of offence).

 

[Flavus Aquila]

I would just like to say that regardless of the hypocrisy here (and I see it as quite a bit) this place is still better than almost every other forum I have been on. Its one of the reasons I stay here. I'd like to think those people who are being unreasonable are recognized as so. If not though I don't really concern myself with it. I feel that most people here are reasonable.

+1

 

[Rcs6r]

I think a lot of misunderstanding here comes from difference in conversation styles and expectancy.

I'm usually goofy, random and weird when I post because I come to the forum to blow steam off whereas some users come ere for more intellectual/serious convos.

 

[Professor Snep]

I think a lot of misunderstanding here comes from difference in conversation styles and expectancy.

I'm usually goofy, random and weird when I post because I come to the forum to blow steam off whereas some users come ere for more intellectual/serious convos.

Well you can have both, right? Speaking for myself, sometimes I get my mind blown here, and sometimes I catch myself grinning for minutes because of some stupic/epic gif.

 

[James]

I take it that's why one staff member over here decided to take their beef with me to INTPforum?

Oh the hypocrisy deafens my ears... Don't think just because a couple of twats over there deleted my account that I don't actually have friends over there keeping me in the loop.




Exactly.. What I have learned from this endeavor is that it's okay for INFJs to go off on aggressive, hate filled rants to try and encourage the censorship of none INFJs, but you are not allowed to call them out on it, because all of a sudden that's "disrespectful".

What is "disrespect"? And how do I treat somebody respectfully whilst telling them that they are spitting their dummy out? If simply tagging them in a picture saying as much is considered "disrespectful" .

But at least I wasn't the only one who noticed all those belligerent rants.
I thought the staffs priority would be to shut that member up and stop him from potentially scaring away your none INFJ members... But apparently not.

Oh @Sinny you know something ? I actually like you. I don't always agree with you, but I like you. My brother is an intp. In my experience they're probably intellectually at least the smartest mbti type. Makes sense to me, they're deeply logical and don't need to close down ideas to get to an outcome.

You're off target with what you've said about the staff tho. Way off. I've never been in that forum and I've no idea at all what happened there. It's run by intps tho yes ? So I guess that's up to them.

Hypocrisy ? It's a rough word. Is this a perfect forum, run by perfect people, in total harmony ? No. It isn't. But I think it's usually a good place to talk. I like it.

Even if it's not perfect. Even when sometimes people (Like me) get too grumpy or whatever. I'd be sorry if non infj types leave. I don't like jazz. But I would go see a Jazz band. Especially if I was told I was not allowed to.

 

[Rcs6r]

Well you can have both, right?

Yes of course. Though sometimes one user creates a thread hoping for serious discussion and ends up getting the goofy (I am guilty of causing this).

 

[Sloe Djinn]

I find it offensive that you are making a straw man assertion about my post.

Indeed!

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Indeed!

It's so conflicting being a member here. I like the people and the discussions here very much, and only ever hop over to the INTJf for their game threads... but at the same time there's often people here who can't handle a different opinion and wade in with very insulting PERSONAL remarks/insinuations, or who get a buzz from misconstruing one's words in the most clumsy and dishonest way imaginable. I've been banned twice, once for criticising the decisions of a couple of former members of staff, and once for calling out someone who was trolling me on every thread.

Now I've got someone lurking around saying that I should fuck off at every opportunity, because I like posting my opinions on the politics threads. Politics by its very nature is about differences of opinions. It's not called the ideological harmony chorus subforum for Pete's sake.

 

[Eventhorizon]

Is it possible we expect to much from humans?

Meaning, we are all flawed. There is no perfect place.

 

[sprinkles]

It's so conflicting being a member here. I like the people and the discussions here very much, and only ever hop over to the INTJf for their game threads... but at the same time there's often people here who can't handle a different opinion and wade in with very insulting PERSONAL remarks/insinuations, or who get a buzz from misconstruing one's words in the most clumsy and dishonest way imaginable. I've been banned twice, once for criticising the decisions of a couple of former members of staff, and once for calling out someone who was trolling me on every thread.

Now I've got someone lurking around saying that I should fuck off at every opportunity, because I like posting my opinions on the politics threads. Politics by its very nature is about differences of opinions. It's not called the ideological harmony chorus subforum for Pete's sake.

Some people take opinions personally and do not separate the person from the opinion. To some people beliefs and opinions are the most important part of a person, the defining part of a person. One of the few things that actually matter about an individual.

Aside from opinions about life, all a person really has are superficial things, like being pleasant to be around, or being good at golf, or being able to carry a tune. Things that even androids will probably be able to do some day.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Some people take opinions personally and do not separate the person from the opinion. To some people beliefs and opinions are the most important part of a person, the defining part of a person. One of the few things that actually matter about an individual.

Aside from opinions about life, all a person really has are superficial things, like being pleasant to be around, or being good at golf, or being able to carry a tune. Things that even androids will probably be able to do some day.

That's a difficult perspective to understand, but it fits with the notion of Ti.

I'll need to ponder that.

Fi conversely makes values important to my identity. Things like impartiality, honesty, generosity, and objectivity are very personal to me... without those things I wouldn't have a sense of self.

 

[sprinkles]

That's a difficult perspective to understand, but it fits with the notion of Ti.

I'll need to ponder that.

Fi conversely makes values important to my identity. Things like impartiality, honesty, generosity, and objectivity are very personal to me... without those things I wouldn't have a sense of self.

I consider those things a means to whatever end, and not values unto themselves. They help facilitate values, so people who have certain values tend to have some of these as well but they're not quite the same thing.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

I consider those things a means to whatever end, and not values unto themselves. They help facilitate values, so people who have certain values tend to have some of these as well but they're not quite the same thing.

I think we're getting to the root of some problems.
Those things are not just a means to me, whereas opinions only have value if they have some practical purpose from my perspective. (That's not meant as a denigration of the role opinions hold in your identity, but as an illustration of the difference between us).