Are you neat and tidy, or just wish to be?

@Roobarb&Custard I read the part where you addressed the physical mess indicates more of an internal one, and I swear I meant to reply, lol. I just hit reply before i reemembered to address the fact that youre very right, it does indicate how messed up he is on the inside. And it's so enlightening, bc maybe thats why I dont "deal with it" bc I have my own internal issues! These parallels are very real to me, and maybe by realizing them I can start to change myself, whether he does or not. Thanks for your honesty, because I value that over all. (As long as its tactful, and not rude, which you werent! Hehe)
 
Asa said:
If he doesn't love himself, and love his life, he won't be able to give you the love you deserve, even if he deeply loves you.
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The sad thing is, I already know that. But what's even sadder is, I still stay. :/
 
April said:
@Roobarb&Custard I read the part where you addressed the physical mess indicates more of an internal one, and I swear I meant to reply, lol. I just hit reply before i reemembered to address the fact that youre very right, it does indicate how messed up he is on the inside. And it's so enlightening, bc maybe thats why I dont "deal with it" bc I have my own internal issues! These parallels are very real to me, and maybe by realizing them I can start to change myself, whether he does or not. Thanks for your honesty, because I value that over all. (As long as its tactful, and not rude, which you werent! Hehe)
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:hug:
 
April said:
The sad thing is, I already know that. But what's even sadder is, I still stay. :/
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Like you say you have a child.. it's not easy even without that factor to complicate things. It's understandable.
 
April said:
The sad thing is, I already know that. But what's even sadder is, I still stay. :/
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If he is able to get better, and improve his own life and treat the depression, this will change, though. He will be able to give you what you need.
 
Asa said:
If he is able to get better, and improve his own life and treat the depression, this will change, though. He will be able to give you what you need.
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Lol, unless he is really a narcissist like you say he is, and then the likelihood is no, he won't change.
 
Asa said:
If he is able to get better, and improve his own life and treat the depression, this will change, though. He will be able to give you what you need.
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I agree :) I just hope I dont go insane and not appreciate the change he is trying to bring about himself. He tries, but then gets discouraged and stops.
 
Roobarb&Custard said:
Lol, unless he is really a narcissist like you say he is, and then the likelihood is no, he won't change.
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I think that he isn't a full on narcissist, but he definitely has those tendencies. The thing that gives me hope is, he knows he has those tendencies, he wants to change it, he just is so bogged down with everything why try? Who cares? Life is boring bc you work a job you hate and then you die. The only joy he gets is from video games, and sometimes playing with our daughter when he feels like it. Sometimes joy comes from me but, our relationship is in shambles so it's a stress factor too. I mean, how can I not want better for him? I see so much potential, and he'd be much happier... But I cant make him do anything
 
@April, in many ways I wish I had never started posting on this thread. I certainly didn't want to be the voice of doom, it seems a very unkind stance to take. It's just that I personally learnt the hard way about being a 'fixer' and what I'm posting is coming from my Ni and my own life experience. Of course I don't know him and may be giving him an unfair shot. I just don't want you to waste your life and happiness on someone who is, fundamentally half hearted about change. Or has so many issues they have to work on themselves before they can be a viable partner.

Life is short, and relationships that don't work, or take a lot of work,- can keep taking a lot of work and still get nowhere, because fundamentally people take their own sweet time to heal, change, learn life lessons...or whatever it is they have to do. Sometimes it's easier to work on ourselves and wait for the right kind of relationship to come along..one that doesn't need tonnes of work to make it work. I'm saying this to you not to be pessimistic or unkind but because I used to be a fixer, I tried to fix my mum,- addict and narcissist and subsequent partners, narcissists or other issues..and eventually I gave up on that and just tried to work on myself so I could attract a positive relationship into my life.

It takes time, I think false hope can be a trap. You will hopefully know yourself, anyway, and in the end enough gets to be enough at some point. I went to a 12 step programme also as a family / partner of an addict, that programme is really great and teaches you a lot about not 'fixing' and not putting up with unreasonable behaviour. Believe me I was a great INFJ empath and would have bled myself to death, almost did...to try and make it all alright and after all through love. This is just my perspective and take on it. Anyway I do wish you well, really I do. I feel reluctant to post more on this thread. I think I've said it all really now.
 
@Roobarb&Custard I don't want you to feel that way about posting on this thread, because I value your input. I don't think you're being negative. I think that you are being a realist about it. I believe the same way as you, but I also believe in not giving up on him just yet. Partially bc I just haven't reached that point , I think. It took 8 years for me to leave my ex (I had somewhere to go then), but if my current bf shows no signs of improving after I CAN take care of myself, I think that will be the last straw. I think I'm codependent. But I am working on that, I am applying for school and hopefully in a year or two will be working in a hospital, able to pay my own bills. Im 32 for goodness sake, I've never been able to provide for myself, and I'm going to do that somehow. I hope you don't beat yourself up about posting the hard truth. Seriously, I think about the things you posted every.single.day. But then the excuses for him and the excuses for me start. I know this is coming to a head, and it's going to change. With him, or without him. I'm going to make sure of that. :) Thank you so much for your concern, you have no idea how much it means. <3
 
April said:
@Roobarb&Custard I don't want you to feel that way about posting on this thread, because I value your input. I don't think you're being negative. I think that you are being a realist about it. I believe the same way as you, but I also believe in not giving up on him just yet. Partially bc I just haven't reached that point , I think. It took 8 years for me to leave my ex (I had somewhere to go then), but if my current bf shows no signs of improving after I CAN take care of myself, I think that will be the last straw. I think I'm codependent. But I am working on that, I am applying for school and hopefully in a year or two will be working in a hospital, able to pay my own bills. Im 32 for goodness sake, I've never been able to provide for myself, and I'm going to do that somehow. I hope you don't beat yourself up about posting the hard truth. Seriously, I think about the things you posted every.single.day. But then the excuses for him and the excuses for me start. I know this is coming to a head, and it's going to change. With him, or without him. I'm going to make sure of that. :) Thank you so much for your concern, you have no idea how much it means. <3
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That's a lovely thing to say.... I appreciate what you say, that there's more of this road for you to travel yet. I wonder if the 12 step programme might be worth a try, I went for several years and I found it very supportive and beneficial in loads of ways. They run groups for co-dependents too. Hopefully finding this forum will also be some help too. :smiley:
 
@Roobarb&Custard I want to add that hopefully, one day, whether he changes or not, that I can be more like you. I don't want to be naive, and usually I'm not, I don't trust anything blindly. But clinging to that little bit of hope and being too scared of not having anywhere to go... makes me feel naive. And I certainly don't want to bleed to death trying to save someone else who doesn't help themselves. So, if you are that way and you're an infj, maybe I can work to be more assertive and less tolerant of things that are toxic to me. I wish I could give you a hug. :)
 
April said:
I don't want to be naive
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You definitely are not, and I certainly don't think that of you.

April said:
not having anywhere to go
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Well that is a consideration, of course....there is always a way, at least I hope.

April said:
if you are that way and you're an infj, maybe I can work to be more assertive and less tolerant of things that are toxic to me.
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Absolutely damned right!!

Also,... on a completely different side line, I think your an extremely empathic empath...and any healing or energy work or martial arts etc. could help you become stronger (in your own self / boundaries etc.) and more grounded by working on your base chakras and energy.

:crushhug:

Virtual hugs across the air waves!
 
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@Roobarb&Custard for some reason going to a group meeting terrifies me. I'm sure that once I was there I would be okay, but this group has definitely helped and will continue to do so, because there are far more things that I have yet to post about! And because it's online, I get all the benefits but hardly any of the social discomfort of being in a group of people baring my soul... Eek! I get anxious just thinking about that!
 
@April - You're going to need to pay close attention to your internal compass. I feel pain and a panic to flee from your posts, but you also want to stay. Work on your relationship, things at home, and on helping him improve his issues. You will know if things aren't improving and it is time to let go.
You are bogged down with a lot of stress, responsibility, chores, etc, so make sure you have time to yourself to decompress. I know free time is scarce because you are a mom, and the maid, but you need it.
Make sure he helps pick up after himself and doesn't spit on the walls and floor, or leave dirty diapers on the floor! That is unfair to you!

I've had friends who were addicts. Some people do not recover and are wandering souls for their entire lives, some people die young from it, and some people do recover and lead constructive, happy, and successful lives. Being that low sometimes makes people brave, and gives them the gumption to really go for it when they get their lives on track. You'll have to monitor this and decide for yourself if your relationship is improving, or if his habits are making your (and your children's) lives worse. People on the internet can't really solve this for you... and you know that... but we're here to listen and offer advice.
 
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@Asa thanks so much for the advice, I know people online can't solve it for me but the ability to vent and get unbiased advice here helps! :)
 
@April - That's why we come here! Well, that and it can get very silly here. :m096:
You've inspired me to deep clean my home, too, even though I deep cleaned it two days ago. LOL!
 
I am fairly neat and tidy. Clutter and dirt give me anxiety. However, I don't have children to contend with. My husband is more messy and cluttery than I am, but he is amenable to the systems I set up. One thing to keep in mind is that it's all relative. I grew up in extreme disorganization with a high degree of filth. So I think my house is amazingly clean and tidy. I am sure some people would not think so. The biggest thing for me in getting a handle on clutter is being merciless. KonMarie the joint if you have to, including your car. If your kids derail you, start disappearing their shit until they start utilizing organizational systems that you set up.
 
@April :hug: I can relate.

I shared a home with a "dead tissue" dropper. He has asthma and his nose runs continuously. I felt terrible for him and used to buy boxed tissues in bulk...but he was horrendous with not tossing them in the trash. They would be lying everywhere, even with plenty of trash cans near. I even put one next to his chair and tissue stand...the chair, the floor, the stand would be full of them when he got up, and he'd leave them there.

However, that's not why our relationship didn't work out. When I realized I had cared for him because I saw his potential and thought he'd mature through his behaviors and he wasn't, I left the relationship. 18 years went by and we tried again. It lasted 26 days. Again, the tissues, lack of responsibility, etc. He worked at a great job and earned $76,000 a year, but...he drives a crappy truck and when he asked for me to pay to have it fixed, and I did, but wrote in the memo line what the money was for, he got really angry when I told him it is so I have proof to take him to small claims court when he doesn't pay me back, (he still owes me money from 18 years ago). It took him 5 months to pay back $220 at his salary. It took me 2 minutes to tell him to have a happy future without me.

I relayed my story as an example. Be cautious when you fall in love with someone's potential instead of accepting who the person really is, (or who they are trying to find in themselves), quirks, addictions, bad habits, questionable behavior and all. We all have expectations of how we would like our relationships to go, and when the other person cannot or will not meet us half way to that, it can and often does cause disharmony within the relationship.

You have children that are depending on you to protect and lead by example for them, it's my hope you choose wisely.

Well wishes to you. <3
 
I don't have much experience with relationships, but I know when it's not healthy. I grew up in such a home, where you couldn't even feel safe. Yours definitely isn't the way it is now. It needn't even be that you're unhealthy, it may just be your attitude-behaviour discrepancy. You have to take charge of yourself and your own to change the situation.

Take this from a reforming tissue dropper: I am a bit untidy myself at the moment, but I know it stems from stress and having something more important to do (keeping deadlines). Once that is out of the way, I am happy to sweep and clean the whole flat until it's either clean or I have burst blisters from scrubbing. But I also know that I am supported, and not a servant or slave worker. If I need help, it is provided freely.

I like that you want to accomplish something. Gaining independence is one of the basic stepping stones for me to become me, to evolve properly. It needn't be the same for you, but it certainly helps to know you can make do on your own. I hope you'll get the job.

Something that came to mind: have you offered to maybe accompany him to a therapist? Just so he knows that you want, even need him to make any effort of getting better? Does he even realise what he does to you? Couples therapy might make him see things from your perspective.
I would have put on the tough love act a long time ago. I have no patience at all for people who have no drive, to me it seems like they don't even want to live, and I hate people who don't value life, be it others' or their own. Even if I cared for the person, taking all responsibility from them makes them probably even more slothful.
 
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