Astrology and MBTI

[Untitled]

You know I have a prediction most INFJs dont have much "fire" in them. I think they would have more water and air.

Fire is actually the element of intuition so you'd expect fire.. ;D

Jung’s functions correspond to the elements in astrology: Fire-Intuition; Earth-Sensation; Air-Thinking; and Water-Feeling

http://astrotabletalk.blogspot.com/2010/10/jungs-psychological-types-and.html

I have a grand trine in fire signs (wether you use sidereal or tropical zodiac...but neptune is involved so no trine if using vedic or traditional western interpretation ).
I'm actually a peculiarity for an ex astro part time enthusiast (I dabbled for a decade) because I use sidereal zodiac, which means that the signs of the zodiac are more defined by the actual constellations in the sky, rather than the symbolic changing of the seasons. The reason is I have one of those charts where the most commonly used system (tropical zodiac and placidus houses) actually makes me out to be the hot shot super CEO corporate tycoon or world's most awesome secretary who's mostly into relationships and moneymaking. I related to the aspect descriptions but the house and sign descriptions left me scratching my head.
(Very) long story short I was given a fixed stars report as a present. Fixed stars, leading me to see saw between vedic astrology, and western sidereal. I also use the sign as house system. ;D

I voted Taurus on this poll, because that's my western Tropical sun sign (2nd house), but if you use Vedic and Western sidereal I'm an Aries (5th house), and I relate much more to that.
I have my moon conjunct Spica which is a star in the constellation of Virgo (=Tropical libra, Vedic Libra, Western sidereal Virgo) and mars, jupiter, north node conjunct Regulus in the constellation of Leo. In western tropical jupiter in Virgo.

 

[StelliumxStar8]

Sun in Cancer 3rdhouse
Moon in Cancer 3rd House
Mercyry in Cancer 3rd house
Venus in Gemini 2nd house
Mars in Cancer 3rd house
Jupiter in Aries 12th house
Saturn in Sagittarius 8th house
Uranus in Sagitarius 8th house
Neptune in Capricorn 9th house
Pluto in Scorpio 6th house

I think my natal chart fits the INFJ/INFP personality types quite well...

Damn, I made a few mistakes there - bit disappointed I am without a 3rd house stellium along with my cancer. There I was hoping it meant I was born to be a writer! Instead, my moon, mercury and mars are ALL in cancer 4th house. My jupiter is in the 1st house aries whilst uranus is in 9th and scorpio in the 7th.

Taking these aspects into consideration, I suppose I could be seen as mega sensitive and emotional...

Could anybody tell me the significance of the asteroid, Chiron? Mine is in the sign of gemini in the 3rd house. What does this mean for me?

 

[E5150]

Scorpio.

I don't take astrology too seriously but I found it amusing how well my sign described my personality. Not 100% though. I just treat it as a coincidence.

 

[Swarmer]

Scorpio

A scorpio is always supposed to be an INFJ, pretty much. It's not always that way, though. Simply saying everyone's like that just because it's their birthday nullifies any possibility in my opinion that sign astrology is real in my opinion.

 

[Sai]

because stuff like this is that Jungian Psychology is never taken seriously in mainstream science.

 

[Ghoulia Yelps]

I feel like a typical gemini.
I'm pretty schizophrenic about everything.

 

[flower]

I'm Libra/Scorpio cusp. I have always been very interested about astrology, something very mysterious about it, I don't know what really. I believe that astrology signs shows a direction to your inner mind about yourself and how you behave in some situations. I think I am typical Libra, very indecisive and mind in the clouds.

 

[rawr]

Aquarius, reporting for duty.

 

[La Sagna]

I'm pisces

 

[say what]

I'm Libra/Scorpio cusp. I have always been very interested about astrology, something very mysterious about it, I don't know what really. I believe that astrology signs shows a direction to your inner mind about yourself and how you behave in some situations. I think I am typical Libra, very indecisive and mind in the clouds.

I'm a cusp too!!!! Gemini/Cancer!

I don't know much about astrology though

 

[flower]

I'm a cusp too!!!! Gemini/Cancer!

I don't know much about astrology though

Yay, another cusp! I don't know much about astrology either, all those planets and their houses are confusing.

 

[say what]

Yay, another cusp! I don't know much about astrology either, all those planets and their houses are confusing.

I know! And then you toss in their moons and jeepers!!! How could anyone keep it straight!

 

[Rift Zone]

Cusp seems rather common around here. I'm a few hours into Virgo... Virgo/Leo Cusp. Is that some Yin-Yang extreme border or something? They seem mutually exclusive.

 

[BrokenDaniel]

I got a birthchart reading a few years ago, it wasn't made by an expert though. It was accurate nonetheless, but my knowledge is limited, i'm interested in it, wish i could take some courses, probably not now, since i'm doing lots of stuff, and i don't know anyone who teaches astrology, but probably later, yeah, seems interesting.
I'm a scorpio.

 

[invisible]

i am a pisces and i think astrology can be fun, like chatting about other meaningless crap for the sake of talking crap. but as soon as it goes beyond fun into something people take seriously, it drives me totally berserk with frustration and rage. its a completely irrational theory of personality based on fantastical creatures that people imagined in the sky when the world was too ignorant to even knew what the sky was. the intricacy of its "theory" gives it the sense of having a legitimacy or even "science" that is in actuality completely bogus, and that makes me sick - because its like you have to buy into all that shit to be bothered mastering it, and if you dont bother mastering it then people who want to aggrandize and reify it just dismiss you as not understanding it. like hello, news flash, there is nothing meaningful to understand about drawings of fantastical monsters that your dark ages ancestors played dot-to-dot with.

uke:

i consider it to be a grave insult to another human being to dismiss or ascribe aspects of their personality on the basis of such absolute garbage. i can hardly think of anything more offensive. its practically emotional abuse to treat another person that way. "oh, you are just getting upset because you are a pisces, and that means you are temperamental." how about this: i am getting upset because you are explaining my personality away with nonsense?

what makes me angrier than anything is that it has so much cultural power that it SHAPES peoples personalities. some "well meaning" adult with a sense of fun gives a kid a picture of a fishes and says "look, you are the fishes!" and the kid goes "cool pretty fishes!" and the adult says "that means that you are good at change, but bad at whatever the hell it is pisces are supposed to be bad at" and the kid identifies with that garbage, and sees themselves as being those things. so if those aspects are in the personality of the child, they are strengthened, and if they are not there, the child invents them, and makes them be there by acting as though they are.

then when people are adults, they're like "im BLAH, and that means im bad at dealing with conflict!" and then, therefore they never learn to deal with conflict effectively, because they have identified themselves as being inherently bad at dealing with conflict. theyre like "noooo! conflict!!!!! i just cant do conflict!"

at least with MBTI it actually makes an attempt to measure temperament and disposition, with the whole purpose of giving people tools to develop themselves. but astrology, what a crock of shit. :yuck: people who promote this stuff as reality should like, get a pogo stick and jump around on it, bake a yummy cake, fold up some origami, learn a card trick, or do anything else at all that doesnt involve pouring acid over their brains.

 

[La Sagna]

i am a pisces and i think astrology can be fun, like chatting about other meaningless crap for the sake of talking crap. but as soon as it goes beyond fun into something people take seriously, it drives me totally berserk with frustration and rage. its a completely irrational theory of personality based on fantastical creatures that people imagined in the sky when the world was too ignorant to even knew what the sky was. the intricacy of its "theory" gives it the sense of having a legitimacy or even "science" that is in actuality completely bogus, and that makes me sick - because its like you have to buy into all that shit to be bothered mastering it, and if you dont bother mastering it then people who want to aggrandize and reify it just dismiss you as not understanding it. like hello, news flash, there is nothing meaningful to understand about drawings of fantastical monsters that your dark ages ancestors played dot-to-dot with.

uke:

i consider it to be a grave insult to another human being to dismiss or ascribe aspects of their personality on the basis of such absolute garbage. i can hardly think of anything more offensive. its practically emotional abuse to treat another person that way. "oh, you are just getting upset because you are a pisces, and that means you are temperamental." how about this: i am getting upset because you are explaining my personality away with nonsense?

what makes me angrier than anything is that it has so much cultural power that it SHAPES peoples personalities. some "well meaning" adult with a sense of fun gives a kid a picture of a fishes and says "look, you are the fishes!" and the kid goes "cool pretty fishes!" and the adult says "that means that you are good at change, but bad at whatever the hell it is pisces are supposed to be bad at" and the kid identifies with that garbage, and sees themselves as being those things. so if those aspects are in the personality of the child, they are strengthened, and if they are not there, the child invents them, and makes them be there by acting as though they are.

then when people are adults, they're like "im BLAH, and that means im bad at dealing with conflict!" and then, therefore they never learn to deal with conflict effectively, because they have identified themselves as being inherently bad at dealing with conflict. theyre like "noooo! conflict!!!!! i just cant do conflict!"

at least with MBTI it actually makes an attempt to measure temperament and disposition, with the whole purpose of giving people tools to develop themselves. but astrology, what a crock of shit. :yuck: people who promote this stuff as reality should like, get a pogo stick and jump around on it, bake a yummy cake, fold up some origami, learn a card trick, or do anything else at all that doesnt involve pouring acid over their brains.

Interesting thoughts. I've never thought of astrology influencing how people feel about themselves, but I guess that makes sense. I don't think that's been the case with me, but you never know. I'll have to think about that more.

When I was a teenager I was very interested in astrology and I got a very large book that gave me all the details of my astrological chart and what all the planet positions were representing. It was very uncanny. I understand the whole concept of generalization so that everybody would see themselves in the descriptions but when you put all the different parts together it formed a whole that I recognized almost in the same way I recognized myself in the definitions of the INFJ. I know it's weird. I still don't know if I believe it or not but it certainly seemed too accurate to be by chance.

 

[cvp12gh5]

i am a pisces and i think astrology can be fun, like chatting about other meaningless crap for the sake of talking crap. but as soon as it goes beyond fun into something people take seriously, it drives me totally berserk with frustration and rage. its a completely irrational theory of personality based on fantastical creatures that people imagined in the sky when the world was too ignorant to even knew what the sky was. the intricacy of its "theory" gives it the sense of having a legitimacy or even "science" that is in actuality completely bogus, and that makes me sick - because its like you have to buy into all that shit to be bothered mastering it, and if you dont bother mastering it then people who want to aggrandize and reify it just dismiss you as not understanding it. like hello, news flash, there is nothing meaningful to understand about drawings of fantastical monsters that your dark ages ancestors played dot-to-dot with.

uke:

i consider it to be a grave insult to another human being to dismiss or ascribe aspects of their personality on the basis of such absolute garbage. i can hardly think of anything more offensive. its practically emotional abuse to treat another person that way. "oh, you are just getting upset because you are a pisces, and that means you are temperamental." how about this: i am getting upset because you are explaining my personality away with nonsense?

what makes me angrier than anything is that it has so much cultural power that it SHAPES peoples personalities. some "well meaning" adult with a sense of fun gives a kid a picture of a fishes and says "look, you are the fishes!" and the kid goes "cool pretty fishes!" and the adult says "that means that you are good at change, but bad at whatever the hell it is pisces are supposed to be bad at" and the kid identifies with that garbage, and sees themselves as being those things. so if those aspects are in the personality of the child, they are strengthened, and if they are not there, the child invents them, and makes them be there by acting as though they are.

then when people are adults, they're like "im BLAH, and that means im bad at dealing with conflict!" and then, therefore they never learn to deal with conflict effectively, because they have identified themselves as being inherently bad at dealing with conflict. theyre like "noooo! conflict!!!!! i just cant do conflict!"

at least with MBTI it actually makes an attempt to measure temperament and disposition, with the whole purpose of giving people tools to develop themselves. but astrology, what a crock of shit. :yuck: people who promote this stuff as reality should like, get a pogo stick and jump around on it, bake a yummy cake, fold up some origami, learn a card trick, or do anything else at all that doesnt involve pouring acid over their brains.

This reminds me of a famous Carl Jung statement:

"Whatever is born at a certain moment in time, takes on the qualities of that moment in time”.

A person's natal chart (not a general horoscope). marks a unique, very specific moment in time (your birth date) the essence of which is not dependent on your own self-evaluation or beliefs about yourself...you know, like personality tests.

Once a person understands what a natal chart is (this entails not just looking at their sun sign) they see that it is pretty interesting and usually accurate.

Now, should a person live by what they read in their chart? No. Just like they shouldn't live by their MBTI type description. But we all know that people do this anyway.

The information is there to use for positive personal growth if you'd like. In that sense, they are very similar.

So if one is crap, well, then so is the other...

 

[invisible]

Interesting thoughts. I've never thought of astrology influencing how people feel about themselves, but I guess that makes sense. I don't think that's been the case with me, but you never know. I'll have to think about that more.

When I was a teenager I was very interested in astrology and I got a very large book that gave me all the details of my astrological chart and what all the planet positions were representing. It was very uncanny. I understand the whole concept of generalization so that everybody would see themselves in the descriptions but when you put all the different parts together it formed a whole that I recognized almost in the same way I recognized myself in the definitions of the INFJ. I know it's weird. I still don't know if I believe it or not but it certainly seemed too accurate to be by chance.

however, i think it is possible that parts of that information had already been suggested to you through previous contact with astrology, and so it seemed more familiar because of that. but i guess we will never know about that. but what strikes me is the immense quantity of nonsense that this theory is constructed on. it is foundationally nonsensical, a collection of random images that have been shuffled around and assigned to months. it has no foundation in any sensible theory. trying to make sense out of it is like trying to make sense of the jabberwocky poem. i have read interpretations of the jabberwocky poem where critics tried to ascribe meanings to the words based on etymology or phonology as they could manage to line it up with plausible meanings, but it didnt work because there was no connection to those systems of understanding. the poem doesnt make sense, it is nonsense, made up of meaningless words that have no connection to each other or to any coherent philosophical approach. its just nonsense and thats all there is to it.

 

[invisible]

This reminds me of a famous Carl Jung statement:

"Whatever is born at a certain moment in time, takes on the qualities of that moment in time”.

A person's natal chart (not a general horoscope). marks a unique, very specific moment in time (your birth date) the essence of which is not dependent on your own self-evaluation or beliefs about yourself...you know, like personality tests.

Once a person understands what a natal chart is (this entails not just looking at their sun sign) they see that it is pretty interesting and usually accurate.

Now, should a person live by what they read in their chart? No. Just like they shouldn't live by their MBTI type description. But we all know that people do this anyway.

The information is there to use for positive personal growth if you'd like. In that sense, they are very similar.

So if one is crap, well, then so is the other...

MBTI personality theory has a basis in observing human behaviour, making generalisations about it, and testing those generalisations according to how someone is able to report their own behaviour. perhaps there is a bias in their reporting of their behaviour, but with time and effort, they can get past that bias and report their behaviour more accurately in a way that gives a meaningful test result.

astrology has a basis in fantastical beasts in the sky. they are not really there. people just imagined them being there many years ago because they didnt understand the sky. they were bored and probably illiterate and so they made up stories to tell each other about what they saw. it doesnt matter how intricate you make it, and whether you say "1 second makes a difference!" because in the end, it is still based on fantastical sky beasts. that stuff is nonsense.

 

[cvp12gh5]

MBTI personality theory has a basis in observing human behaviour, making generalisations about it, and testing those generalisations according to how someone is able to report their own behaviour. perhaps there is a bias in their reporting of their behaviour, but with time and effort, they can get past that bias and report their behaviour more accurately in a way that gives a meaningful test result.

astrology has a basis in fantastical beasts in the sky. they are not really there. people just imagined them being there many years ago because they didnt understand the sky. they were bored and probably illiterate and so they made up stories to tell each other about what they saw. it doesnt matter how intricate you make it, and whether you say "1 second makes a difference!" because in the end, it is still based on fantastical sky beasts. that stuff is nonsense.

Illiterate? Probably. But let's use an example of a past civilization that used astrology; The Mayans. They understood time and space better than we do today. And they were master mathematicians. So I'm thinking they knew something. I wouldn't be so quick to knock their intelligence.

Anyhow, we obviously disagree. No big deal. I'm not here to prove you right or wrong or to put anyone down for their beliefs or to call anything nonsense. That wouldn't be nice.