Astrology

I'm more into Indo-European symbology - a "back to the roots" thing - so I guess this is where the interpretations diverge.

I believe it is most confusing that they use in part the same epistemology but derive it differently, so it would actually have different meanings as a consequence. Why there is this overlap of terminology is beyond me, as that was the biggest turn off from it when they said I was a different Rising Sign, and that the houses were arranged differently, which produces different meanings altogether, no matter what pattern you follow.
See where I'm coming from?
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@Ginny's comment echoes my own sentiments as a practitioner of Western astrology although I am familiar with the vedic system to some degree (partly from having friends from that background who have either taught me some bits about it or have commented.) I think the system works when understood within its own frame but this would be difficult for me as I have also learned the western signs with their archetypal meanings and tend to interpret placements accordingly.

They also help with more precise predictions as there are tens of different kinds of divisional charts, each dedicated for one specific purpose like wealth, parents, children, family, health, spouse, career and so on.
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This is where I have a bit of an issue with the system because instead of showing a tendency (if one is a cardinal fire sign one will be impatient but not necessarily incapable of improving and becoming more aware and more in charge of one's energies - for example) it tends to portray the descriptions in a more fatalistic/deterministic fashion more akin to traditional astrology. This is where we would hear that one afflicted by Saturn would be evil and wicked and other such things and the issue with it is that it has a discouraging effect on the reader while also giving the impression that one is not capable of altering circumstances through one's own choices and actions. While this may actually be the case while we remain oblivious of a placement's action it still seems to promote relatively little self-growth therefore my disinclination to use this method of interpretation. However I have seen some examples of it and indeed they can get very precise about what one is "gifted"/"cursed" with depending on placements.
 
TheFool said:
That is because of the precision of the equinoxes. The Western tropical system does not take this in consideration and is based on the postition of the vernal equinox. Sidereal shows where the planets actually are at the given moment and because of the axial precission the positions of the zodiacs shift 1 degree every 71,6 years. Since the early Western astrology was introduced, the zodiacs have shifted some 23 degrees.
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Well, I did always think I was born at the wrong time :D

TheFool said:
That is why your rising sing is different according to the Jyotish calculation. :)
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Actually, though, it doesn't explain anything. Least of all, why it doesn't apply to me. *bit confused*

TheFool said:
Jyotish is used as a part of Ayurveda to determine the doshas of the native. This helps to discover the cause of ailment and also to treat it more precisely. Just by looking at a chart one can see what kinds of food and yogic exercises the native ought to avoid and which to favor.
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Lol, wait - So you're saying that each chart just says what's wrong with you and implies there is something wrong with everyone? That's a very bright outlook :)
 
jkxx said:
@Ginny's comment echoes my own sentiments as a practitioner of Western astrology although I am familiar with the vedic system to some degree (partly from having friends from that background who have either taught me some bits about it or have commented.) I think the system works when understood within its own frame but this would be difficult for me as I have also learned the western signs with their archetypal meanings and tend to interpret placements accordingly.



This is where I have a bit of an issue with the system because instead of showing a tendency (if one is a cardinal fire sign one will be impatient but not necessarily incapable of improving and becoming more aware and more in charge of one's energies - for example) it tends to portray the descriptions in a more fatalistic/deterministic fashion more akin to traditional astrology. This is where we would hear that one afflicted by Saturn would be evil and wicked and other such things and the issue with it is that it has a discouraging effect on the reader while also giving the impression that one is not capable of altering circumstances through one's own choices and actions. While this may actually be the case while we remain oblivious of a placement's action it still seems to promote relatively little self-growth therefore my disinclination to use this method of interpretation. However I have seen some examples of it and indeed they can get very precise about what one is "gifted"/"cursed" with depending on placements.
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Like in every divisional practice it is common that people use fear-based interpretations in order to consciously or unconsciously create a demand for the services they provide.

Divisional charts are very subtle and beyond the ordinary descriptions of aspects and nature of the planets. In Jyotish every planet has their static karaka, signification and dynamic karaka which alters as the ownership of the houses differs for every ascendant sign. Saturn is not seen as something evil but as a planet of duty, karma, restrictions and boundaries like longevity. From yogic point of view, Saturn is the planet responsible for karmic obscurations. He is the silver lining of every lesson and tribulation. Saturn shows us things as they are and gives us that which we need in order to grow. Saturn rules over our bones, the fundaments of our body. But it is bones that are the only thing that is left behind after death and thus Saturn represents the immortality of our innate nature or Soul if you wish to call it so. :)
 
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Ginny said:
Well, I did always think I was born at the wrong time :D


Actually, though, it doesn't explain anything. Least of all, why it doesn't apply to me. *bit confused*


Lol, wait - So you're saying that each chart just says what's wrong with you and implies there is something wrong with everyone? That's a very bright outlook :)
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Not wrong but what your body and mind consists of. If you are ruled by fire element it is wiser to not empower it too much by eating food that strengthens the fire element within us.

If your rising sign does not change that is because your tropical sign is between 23-30 degrees. In Jyotish it would mean that your rising sign is in 1-7 degrees. Still in the same sign but in a different constellation.
 
TheFool said:
Not wrong but what your body and mind consists of. If you are ruled by fire element it is wiser to not empower it too much by eating food that strengthens the fire element within us.

If your rising sign does not change that is because your tropical sign is between 23-30 degrees. In Jyotish it would mean that your rising sign is in 1-7 degrees. Still in the sane sign but in a different constellation.
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I must say, I'm not really a fan of such Hawking-esque explanations that don't explain anything, which is basically just throwing out terms without attaching meaning to them. I know it is a vast field, but to explain something this way isn't particularly trustworthy in my book. It sounds a little like evading the issue rather than adressing it, or you would adress it in full. You know what I mean?

Additionally, in the above quote it seems to be you base this on an assumption which I can't tell is quite true. You probably only mean to use an example, but you put too little effort into the explanation to make it meaningful or understandable.
 
TheFool said:
That is because of the precision of the equinoxes. The Western tropical system does not take this in consideration and is based on the postition of the vernal equinox. Sidereal shows where the planets actually are at the given moment and because of the axial precission the positions of the zodiacs shift 1 degree every 71,6 years. Since the early Western astrology was introduced, the zodiacs have shifted some 23 degrees.

That is why your rising sing is different according to the Jyotish calculation. :)
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LITERALLY what I was saying the other day without the fancy words. :tearsofjoy: thank you!
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has anyone heard of Carl Payne Tobey? (http://www.bonniehill.net/pages.aux/astrology/tobey/index.html)
 
That is because of the precision of the equinoxes. The Western tropical system does not take this in consideration and is based on the postition of the vernal equinox. Sidereal shows where the planets actually are at the given moment and because of the axial precission the positions of the zodiacs shift 1 degree every 71,6 years. Since the early Western astrology was introduced, the zodiacs have shifted some 23 degrees.

That is why your rising sing is different according to the Jyotish calculation. :)
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This is an important point because indeed when a planet is said to be in X degrees of sign Y it is so under the corrected tropical zodiac rather than the "physical reality" based one founded on the actual positions of the constellations. And in fact this way of doing it has shown much more reliability than using the actual constellations in my studies. And since it is a related concept it's good to include the concept of astrological ages here. Why one system works "better" than the other is a complicated question to which I have no answer, however, beyond my experience even if it involves interpreting a few hundred charts by now.

@Puzzlenuzzle
has anyone heard of Carl Payne Tobey? (http://www.bonniehill.net/pages.aux/astrology/tobey/index.html)
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I haven't encountered this guy's stuff before but it seems pretty solid for anyone wanting to review their knowledge or who is well-acquainted with astrology.
 
It was a funny thing that the day they announced in the news that some scientists had managed to take a live picture of a black hole was just few days after Jupiter had moved into sidereal Sagittarius and into the constallation called Moola.

Moola or Mula derives from the Sanskrit word for ‘root’ and is ruled by the Goddess of Destruction, Nitriti. The funny part is that Moola is placed in align with the center of Milky Way and the past Siddhis believed that a great destructive force existed there where the naksatra of Moola is located.

Coincidence? Perhaps :)
 
It was a funny thing that the day they announced in the news that some scientists had managed to take a live picture of a black hole was just few days after Jupiter had moved into sidereal Sagittarius and into the constallation called Moola.

Moola or Mula derives from the Sanskrit word for ‘root’ and is ruled by the Goddess of Destruction, Nitriti. The funny part is that Moola is placed in align with the center of Milky Way and the past Siddhis believed that a great destructive force existed there where the naksatra of Moola is located.

Coincidence? Perhaps :)
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Thank you for this - I was not aware of this one but it is fascinating.

There are several such odd coincidences with astrological significance - for example for the discovery charts of Uranus, Neptune and Pluto the planet being discovered is *always* in aspect to Saturn, with Saturn acting to bring the outer planet down to us in a concrete sense as it does with everything else.
[Uranus discovery]
[Neptune discovery chart]
[Pluto discovery chart]
[Chiron discovery]
(note discovered planet in aspect to Saturn in each)
 
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Over the years the original signs have been corrupted. By rigorous analysis of the names of constellations I have discovered the true names, which reveal your fate:

Airies - Suffer from flatulence
Aurus - Golden boys and girls - very lucky
Gem in eye - Have beautiful eyes
Cancel - Can be celibate for a long time
Le O - This is French for orgasm, very sensual, but also vulgar; often this is written L'O (Pronounced "Low")
Ergo - Very rational and logical
Libri - Like books, possible authors or librarians
Corpsio - Fated to die young
Agittarius - Political leaders and propagandists. Probably communists
Apricorn - Conflicted people, a cross between apricot and corn
Aquarium - They like eating fish
Pie-seas - Tend to have problems with their weight
 
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