Authentic Projection

charlene said:
@MegaHen

Thank you, that is really kind.
I resonate with you and your thoughts also.

It's a true pleasure to connect with you and I look forward to getting to know you

I hoped to God you are not as messed up as me lol....and whatever level of mad you are....welcome

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Thankyou, and the same goes for you ^_^ We are all our own sort of messed up and mad,
we wouldn’t be human otherwise
I love the Alice and wonderland quote!
 
Interesting discussion. I've been in verbally abusive relationships/friendships where others have needed me to agree with their words. Their desperation vibe was off the scale. I can think of one ex best friend in my teens who would put down my looks almost everyday, even in front others.

They were of course speaking pure nonsense. Sometimes out of naivety and the desire to get along, I ended up totally agreeing with their insults or incorrect evaluations of my behaviour. I rationalized they were my friends, so they were only telling me something unbecoming or negative about myself in order to help me fix it before someone else would notice.

I was inauthentic by believing that someone else could interpret my experience of being me. I learned the hard way... I find myself with the option of being fake and getting along or authentic and letting someone feel down. It's a shame that it's not easy sometimes.

People know when they're encountering someone that's agreeable by nature. There's definitely a misuse of agreeable people who value harmony.

Some people feel like their life existence is being threatened or undermined by a harmonic, agreeable person simply being their own, uniquely made person. They have the "audacity" and authority to be their own person.

I think infjs can be addictive to other types who don't own themselves and are seeking approval. They probably like to be very close because of the infjs warmth. Speaking of projection, there can be an illusion that the infj "knows" the other person. All the time. Even when they're not physically present. Of course this is all irrational. The illusion or projection of mutal agreement is shattered as soon the agreeable person is seen as behaving their own authentic way. Astonishingly, instead of appreciating authenticity, the other person feels attacked.

It's why this stupid myth that we are somehow psychic drives me mad!! :rage: I personally think it's dangerous and irresponsible of some websites to imply that infjs are able to read others thoughts. No, all we know are others feelings. And it's not even all the time. It is humanely impossible to know their preferences, opinions, life story or whatever else.

I feel like I'm in this constant battle just to feel allowed to exist as I am. I know how it requires tremendous courage and discipline to not shrink for others. When others are projecting, it can be challenging to give yourself permission to improve, and accept that you are already your best version of you.
 
Maikl Jexocuha said:
Maybe "people pleasing" isn't quite it for me; I find I try to blend in, especially in new surroundings, as much as I can. Being too concerned about authenticity, imo, can be unfruitful. My tentative conclusion for being an INFJ is to forget "authenticity" and aim for effectiveness in your self-expression and decisions. It doesn't mean you are being fake. It just means you be your best self to share what you must share and do what you must do most appropriately within a given context and time.
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I like the authenticity switch with effectiveness. Or blended would work to. I just wrote a book of conceptions to this thread and then erased it .what does that say. I can't express myself because?____you could fill in many words. Are those words going to match what I feel.. There's a probability of yes or no. Everyone grows up in a different perspective. Identity and behavior patterns are formed through life experience. a person might blend and have trouble opening up to show there inner self. That's perfectly fine. It's there perspective of the world around them innacting there behavior. A person could be outgoing and social.there perspective again has allowed them to develop that behavior.the same person could display parts of all said behavior. Are they authentic Or a grifter, idk some behavior patterns are authentic and some are not .that can be assumed to be conclusive in say??? All humans. Authenticity could also depend on how much acceptance has been given to the individual. Some are just on a different wavelength so to speak. INFJ's are complex I know I am. We look for trusting people to include in our lives. As does anyone. but probably more so atleast for me. I look for someone that's vibrating on the same wavelength. Will I find It? I've had experience that miraculous things do occur , and would be my greatest chance of achieved authenticity. I've been fake my whole life because I have never shown my whole makeup to anyone I am one as many I am a eclectic complexity of my every experience. I see no benifit to open up past what people will accept.just a ongoing process of trial and error trial and error. Becoming Tru or authentic is out of our hands . We live in a society that really disallows that possibility everyone is a yes man or woman we all follow rules and orders we make up lies in some aspect even if it is to ourselves so many people with a fake it till you make it veiwpoint.
All we can be is whatever our confinement allows .in hope to Become the best version of ourselves.
 
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I find that I tend to put people on a bit of ladder in terms of how close I am to them (which I think could be equated to what you mean by authentic). There are some people I'm very close to who we could say are at the top of the ladder, and then there are other's who are farther down, and then everyone else who is at the bottom who I'm not very close to at all. I find that on each 'level' of this ladder there's certain ways of communication, and the less close I am to a person (the farther down they are on the ladder) the less 'authentic' I get to be.

I think from what I've experienced with interacting with INFJ's is they really like to focus on treating everyone that is on the ladder as if they were at the top even if really they are further down on the ladder. I think this comes from a good place, a desire for closeness and meaningful relationships, but I think that it's impossible to have everyone at the top. I can relate to being a people pleaser as a fellow intuitive feeler. This is just my impression; I hope you might find this analogy useful.
 
milo said:
I find that I tend to put people on a bit of ladder in terms of how close I am to them (which I think could be equated to what you mean by authentic). There are some people I'm very close to who we could say are at the top of the ladder, and then there are other's who are farther down, and then everyone else who is at the bottom who I'm not very close to at all. I find that on each 'level' of this ladder there's certain ways of communication, and the less close I am to a person (the farther down they are on the ladder) the less 'authentic' I get to be.

I think from what I've experienced with interacting with INFJ's is they really like to focus on treating everyone that is on the ladder as if they were at the top even if really they are further down on the ladder. I think this comes from a good place, a desire for closeness and meaningful relationships, but I think that it's impossible to have everyone at the top. I can relate to being a people pleaser as a fellow intuitive feeler. This is just my impression; I hope you might find this analogy useful.
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I like this analogy a lot... Thankyou for sharing ^_^
 
MegaHen said:
Lol okay one sec... I believe, so.
I don’t want to assume all INFJs think just like me but I know we tend to value authenticity. So I was questioning why that is, and in my personal experience I’ve been a people pleaser (I’ve heard many of us are) which makes it incredibly hard to be authentic in front of others. So, are INFJs projecting in a way, there dislike for when others are inauthentic? Again, I’m sure not all INFJs are the exact same just my own experience

Ive found many of my judgments on others are just things I don’t like about myself which is projection, I wonder if it’s the same...

Or may just want to be authentic with others because bonds are formed by trust, And we are trustworthy but worry others arnt possibly. Or is it that we are projecting our dislike that we struggle to be ourselves at times? I’m not sure Lol I’m hurting my own brain

Does that help at all? I can expand more lol the more I write the fuzzier it gets
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It is possible and even likely that there is projection involved when we dislike inauthenticity in others.

That being said, I don't think that's the sole reason. Even if we somehow managed to be completely authentic at all times, we would still dislike (and judge a little bit) inauthenticity in others.

Also, there are different ways of being inauthentic I think. You can be very polite and diplomatic with people, including those you don't like, while living an authentic life all the same, when it is considered as a whole. I think it is that latter kind of authenticity which matters more.
 
Ren said:
That being said, I don't think that's the sole reason. Even if we somehow managed to be completely authentic at all times, we would still dislike (and judge a little bit) inauthenticity in others.

Also, there are different ways of being inauthentic I think. You can be very polite and diplomatic with people, including those you don't like, while living an authentic life all the same, when it is considered as a whole. I think it is that latter kind of authenticity which matters more.
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Actually, how would true Authenticity in a person be defined here - general question to this thread?
 
dragulagu said:
Actually, how would true Authenticity in a person be defined here - general question to this thread?
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Looked it up -“Being authentic means that you act in ways that show your true self and how you feel. Rather than showing people only a particular side of yourself, you express your whole self genuinely. That means to succeed in being authentic, you first have to know who your true self actually is.”
Not sure if that helps at all, why do you ask?
 
I assumed dragulagu is refining the question parameters to better answer the question. Subjective viewpoint of the individual makes responses hard here for a definitive answer.

I think I liked Ren's response the best.
 
Ren said:
It is possible and even likely that there is projection involved when we dislike inauthenticity in others.

That being said, I don't think that's the sole reason. Even if we somehow managed to be completely authentic at all times, we would still dislike (and judge a little bit) inauthenticity in others.

Also, there are different ways of being inauthentic I think. You can be very polite and diplomatic with people, including those you don't like, while living an authentic life all the same, when it is considered as a whole. I think it is that latter kind of authenticity which matters more.
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All very good points Ren:)
 
Pin said:
I hate being in a position where I have to trust other people's judgement over my own. That's powerlessness.

That's why everyone should have a PhD.
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Keep in mind that the basic experience of a PhD student is the article peer review, i.e. depending on other people's judgement over your own lol
 
Ren said:
Keep in mind that the basic experience of a PhD student is the article peer review, i.e. depending on other people's judgement over your own lol
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Not just any "other people," these people are your peers who have likewise done the work to understand the subject deeply. Peer review isn't done by randoms off the street.

Non-honorary graduate degrees aren't handed arbitrarily. You can't be uninformed on a subject and get a PhD in it.
 
Pin said:
Not just any "other people," these people are your peers who have likewise done the work to understand the subject deeply. Peer review isn't done by randoms off the street.

Non-honorary graduate degrees aren't handed arbitrarily. You can't be uninformed on a subject and get a PhD in it.
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All true.
 
I think there is some value in idea that spending enough time with a subject makes you an expert. I commonly think of the common quoted 10,000 hours to master a craft.

What's currently making you have to take a leap of faith in the unknown and unqualified Pin?
 
Okay, I see authenticity as a Fi characteristic, not Fe. It is based on being to be true to one's own values, creating inner harmony through congruence with self-identity.

Fe is based on creating emotional harmony with others and among others. As such, our own identities and values are not the central question.

So, I say, give yourself a break. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. As long as you don't go against your values, it's okay to meet people's needs -- which are often immature or irrational. For example, if someone tells a joke that isn't funny, you can laugh at their attempt, not at their joke. However, if the joke is unethical, you certainly shouldn't pretend it's funny.

In the foreground, your Fe is running, telling you that the person wants your admiration. In the background, your Ti is running, telling you that it makes sense to reward a friend for trying to make you laugh, but it is also saying, "Seek the truth. This is not a funny joke." So you rationalize, internally, how to answer.

"Hey, now, that's a different perspective!" "I never thought of that!" Or my favorite: "Who, but you, could get away with saying something like that?" Make them own what they said. Don't get baited into passing judgment. Keep a collection of comments like this in your repertoire.

One of the worst things for INFJs to do is lose our levity. When we are too serious, it drags us down and takes everyone else with us. Leave the Fi moralizing to other types. Keep it light. Play. Enjoy. This is what people seek from our type. If they want serious advice, they'll ask.

People-pleasing doesn't have to be self-destructive. That is part of the heavy, negative, serious trap that INFJs fall into. Know what you're doing. Keep your response in line with achieving your goal. Exit stage left if the mood gets bad. It's neither your responsibility nor your fault if you can't fix it.
 
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