Bible Mysticism and Symbology

[Fruiteloop]

I'd like to keep this simple.

If you participate in this thread please respect others and what they say, this is not a thread for telling others they are wrong. We are hear to talk about what we have read and what it means to us. We do not need to be perfect and all opinions are welcome. If anything is on your mind please share.

When I think of the bible and I think how it is based on spirituality not rationality. Rationality can be part of it but not with materialism. God does not exist as a nonliving entity. God is a person who is "above" us somehow who knows us and has both mind and consciousness. This is why he can speak to people as they understand or can understand. Abraham left Ur because the family idols were made of stone and not alive. Joseph had dreams and they came true.

When I was little about 3 to 4 years old I was on the bed mom put on my shoes and I saw an image on tv - there was a program of the tomb Jesus was in opening from the inside with light pouring in from the darkness. That is all I can remember. It had an impact on me.

In the movie the Prince of Egypt I remember mosses saw the burning bush. It also impacted me.

I remember the kids show of Super Book.

I have several more things to say but to keep it from diverting away:

Moses means drawn from the water - this could mean in relation to the flood God said he would not use water to harm the earth again, saved Noah and his family from the flood.
YHWY - I say a presentation that said this could be the sound of baby breathing because Air goes in and out to convey the words, Gods word requires air then. The breath of life.
The burning bush is of course fire
Bread I can relate to the earth - many passages about bread in the bible

Jesus is a translation of Joshua

Joshua is a classic masculine name of Hebrew origin (Yehoshua) that means "Yahweh is salvation" or "God is deliverance." It represents strength, divine protection, and faithful leadership

Jesus is said to be the lamb of God: lambs blood was put on the doors of Hebrews to save them from the angel of death passing over them.

Finally:

In the Book of Daniel (Chapter 3), the fourth man in the fiery furnace with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego is described by King Nebuchadnezzar as looking like a "son of the gods" or an "angel" sent by God to deliver them. Many Christian theologians interpret this figure as a theophany or a Christophany—a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus Christ.

Angel means messenger: if it was an angel or someone else I believe that God does miracles.

My favorite verse in the bible is Mathew 5:8

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

 

[QuickTwist]

I've had many experiences that I believe were ones God has spoken to me. I've had visions, prophecies, dreams, been a part of miraculous healings, etc.

It's interesting that Apostle Paul was very reluctant to share his vision of the third heaven. What is also interesting with this is that Paul often speaks in a logical, reasonable way, not a mystical way. I think the reason for this is that God blesses different people with different giftings. Some see visions. Some are great at articulation. Some have great acts of service. Some face martyrdom with unflinching bravery. We all have gifts God has given us as Christians. We are made of different parts, as in different body parts, but Paul says, "The hand cannot say to the eye, 'I have no need of you,'" for we are all of one body.

Further, even though I do have a lot of supernatural experiences, I do not believe they are necessary for a person to be close to God. John the Immerser is recorded to not have a single miracle attributed to his name. Yet, Jesus says he is greatest in the first covenant.

 

[meowzician]

I've had many experiences that I believe were ones God has spoken to me. I've had visions, prophecies, dreams, been a part of miraculous healings, etc.

Same here. Amazing, VIVID inner visions sometimer of the past but usually of the future. Most of my dreams are perfectly ordinary, but I've had several that were so profound that they altered my life.

And here is a strange one. I used to occasionally have problems with my ankles swelling. One weekend I was at a three day seminar where we would sit for hours in those metal folding chairs. My lower legs swelled up so badly that the nurse drove me to the ER. The scan of my heart revealed that I had congestive heart failure. Several weeks later when I finally saw the cardiologist, he repeated the scan. There was absolutely NO EVIDENCE of congestive heart failure. Nor have my ankles ever become swollen again since. No one prayed over me that weekend or after. It just... happened.

Some face martyrdom with unflinching bravery. We all have gifts God has given us as Christians.

You do realize that other religions also have their martyrs? We can talk about Rabbi Akiva and other Jews martyred by the Romans. Or if you wish, the Jews who chose death rather than to be converted to Christianity.

Further, even though I do have a lot of supernatural experiences, I do not believe they are necessary for a person to be close to God.

Right on!

 

[QuickTwist]

You do realize that other religions also have their martyrs? We can talk about Rabbi Akiva and other Jews martyred by the Romans. Or if you wish, the Jews who chose death rather than to be converted to Christianity.

Of course. Almost every religion has their martyrs. Not all martyrs are equal though. The Apostles went to their deaths for what they SAW, not some idea they came up with.

 

[meowzician]

Of course. Almost every religion has their martyrs. Not all martyrs are equal though. The Apostles went to their deaths for what they SAW, not some idea they came up with.

No they didn't. You are confusing legends with history.

 

[QuickTwist]

No they didn't. You are confusing legends with history.

The scholarship is against you. But you have your own scholars which are even more liberal than Gerd Lüdemann.

 

[QuickTwist]

Spiritual Forces... In a Dream.

I want to tell you a story about something I experienced.On April 23, 2024, I had an engagement with a pro-Hamas supporter. He responded to my initial comment about Dr. Michael Brown and the article he linked about anti-Semitism. Here is the discussion in a screenshot.Notice where he says that I...

www.oldthingspassawayallbecomesnew.net

 

[meowzician]

The scholarship is against you. But you have your own scholars which are even more liberal than Gerd Lüdemann.

I think you may be confusing theologians with historians and textual critics.

 

[meowzician]

Of course. Almost every religion has their martyrs. Not all martyrs are equal though. The Apostles went to their deaths for what they SAW, not some idea they came up with.

You cannot prove that.

 

[QuickTwist]

You cannot prove that.

Neither can you prove that I am a real person... But so much of human knowledge is not based on "proof" but based on probability.

 

[meowzician]

Neither can you prove that I am a real person... But so much of human knowledge is not based on "proof" but based on probability.

Believing you are a real person is the default position. Until one has evidence otherwise, you opt for the default position.

I don't know if this will make you feel better or not, but when I was younger, I had to learn these rules too. And do you know who taught me? Atheists. My thinking is much clearer and more rational due to their patient teaching. I owe them a debt.

 

[QuickTwist]

Believing you are a real person is the default position. Until one has evidence otherwise, you opt for the default position.

Why is that the default? Bots exist... AI exists... There are other possibilities... If you were just as skeptical of me being a real person as you were in the resurrection, you would probably conclude you were a boltzmann brain.

I don't know if this will make you feel better or not, but when I was younger, I had to learn these rules too. And do you know who taught me? Atheists. My thinking is much clearer and more rational due to their patient teaching. I owe them a debt.

Stop with your holier than thou attitude. You're not some enlightened figure. You're just liberal when it comes to theology and science. Stop condescending me. I don't treat you like you know nothing. I also don't know nothing.

 

[meowzician]

Why is that the default?

The basic idea is that when you’re talking to someone in a chat, the most reasonable starting assumption is that they are a real person, not a bot. That comes from what philosophers and scientists sometimes call “default realism,” which just means you start with what is most normally true in everyday life, and only move away from it if you have a reason to.

It also connects to something called “methodological conservatism,” which is a fancy way of saying you should not overcomplicate your assumptions at the beginning. In most chat environments, the majority of participants are humans, so assuming “this is a human” is usually correct. It keeps your thinking accurate and efficient.

There is also a statistical idea behind it, sometimes called a “prior.” That just means your starting guess should match what is most common in real life. If most of what you encounter in chat spaces are real people, then your starting belief should be that the person is real. You only change that belief if you see evidence that suggests otherwise, like responses that are clearly automated, repetitive patterns, or signs the timing and content don’t match human behavior.


If you start by assuming everyone might be a bot, you will often be wrong in the opposite direction. You would end up mislabeling real people as fake, which makes communication harder and less reliable. So it is more practical to begin with the assumption that the other side is a person.

Bots exist... AI exists...

Less probable.

Stop with your holier than thou attitude.

Wait.... I admit that I've experienced the same thing as you, which puts us on the same level as you, but you think I'm being holier than thou?

 

[QuickTwist]

Less probable.

Thank you. So stop saying I need proof for things.

Wait.... I admit that I've experienced the same thing as you, which puts us on the same level as you, but you think I'm being holier than thou?

Because you did it to pat yourself on the back that you are not in that place anymore and have ascended to glory already.

 

[meowzician]

Thank you. So stop saying I need proof for things.

You misssed the point. You asked me what the default position is. It is the position that is more probable.

Because you did it to pat yourself on the back that you are not in that place anymore and have ascended to glory already.

Oh trust me. I still have plenty to work on. And while I don't know what things I'm wrong about, I'm absolutely certain I'm still making mistakes.

 

[QuickTwist]

You misssed the point. You asked me what the default position is. It is the position that is more probable.

>You tell me I need proof.
>I tell you you don't have proof I exist
>You say believing it is the default
>I say there are alternate explanations
>You say it's more probable
>I say Then don't tell me I need proof
>You tell me I missed the point

I didn't miss any point... You missed the point. You want proof, but when there does not exist proof for like 90% of human knowledge it's simply not fair to demand proof because we don't have any proof for any historical event. If you only want proof you have logic and math and that is all you get.