Charisma - What is it and have you got it?

JustPhil said:
Call it Ci versus Ce :)
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Cool!


I've been tagged a lot here, and I just want to say that a quality like 'charisma' can also harm you. Anything exceptional is suspicious, and the whole 'narcissist' narrative has 'charisma' under the spotlight, too, since one of the checklist characteristics of NPD is 'superficial charm'.

I think it's easy to discern the difference between 'superficial' charm and when somebody is communicating something of substance, but even so the link has been made and dispelling it seems futile.

There is also the fact that 'charisma' means that attention comes to you, which raises another suspicion: that you're doing it deliberately; that you're 'courting attention'.

I was wary of engaging with this thread for this reason. This label can harm you. Anything which exceptionalises or differentiates you from others can harm you eventually. Deeply, and there's nothing you can do about it. It cultivates the instinct of wanting to melt away into the background; not be noticed or paid any attention to whatsoever.

So these tags... and having my charisma 'scored', it hurts me, even if the intent is good and I try to accept it as a compliment. I want connection and acceptance, not to be objectified in this way.

Anybody can be charismatic. Everybody has the power to take a stand or speak their truth, and I always encourage this. It's not about 'charismatic individuals', as if we're looking at a different species, but a skillset that can be used by anyone for either good or bad.
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
Cool!


I've been tagged a lot here, and I just want to say that a quality like 'charisma' can also harm you. Anything exceptional is suspicious, and the whole 'narcissist' narrative has 'charisma' under the spotlight, too, since one of the checklist characteristics of NPD is 'superficial charm'.

I think it's easy to discern the difference between 'superficial' charm and when somebody is communicating something of substance, but even so the link has been made and dispelling it seems futile.

There is also the fact that 'charisma' means that attention comes to you, which raises another suspicion: that you're doing it deliberately; that you're 'courting attention'.

I was wary of engaging with this thread for this reason. This label can harm you. Anything which exceptionalises or differentiates you from others can harm you eventually. Deeply, and there's nothing you can do about it. It cultivates the instinct of wanting to melt away into the background; not be noticed or paid any attention to whatsoever.

So these tags... and having my charisma 'scored', it hurts me, even if the intent is good and I try to accept it as a compliment. I want connection and acceptance, not to be objectified in this way.

Anybody can be charismatic. Everybody has the power to take a stand or speak their truth, and I always encourage this. It's not about 'charismatic individuals', as if we're looking at a different species, but a skillset that can be used by anyone for either good or bad.
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My sincerest apologies ..
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
I was wary of engaging with this thread for this reason. This label can harm you. Anything which exceptionalises or differentiates you from others can harm you eventually. Deeply, and there's nothing you can do about it.
Click to expand...

I like this quote, but in real life in the absense of leadership, people will look for people like you. While you will see this as a burden --when thinking that if one sees me as too high, it wont be long before I get to dissapoint them-- many have high hopes on you.

I suppose, when it is about a very much needed reform within the community (in example those facing destructions), you might have to consider taking your rightful place to press on conflicts among people.

Deep down you may mumble a lot, "when is this job is going to be over?"
 
larcipelago said:
I like this quote, but in real life in the absense of leadership, people will look for people like you. While you will see this as a burden --when thinking that if one sees me as too high, it wont be long before I get to dissapoint them-- many have high hopes on you.

I suppose, when it is about a very much needed reform within the community (in example those facing destructions), you might have to consider taking your rightful place to press on conflicts among people.

Deep down you may mumble a lot, "when is this job is going to be over?"
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There's a problem here - instrumentalising the self.

It's something I've struggled with. That I'm just a 'tool' or an 'instrument', and that happiness is therefore for 'other people'. It's actually a form of self-loathing. Not irrational... I've been 'used' and 'discarded' in this way in a previous career.

So yeah... I have to say that I don't think this position is particularly healthy. Leaders must arise naturally from the community rather than being elevated above it.
 
I have it depending on what I want and how I'm feeling.
 
Cool thread idea @JustPhil
To me, charisma isn't something one can adequately measure for themselves because it can only be quantified by others, based off of their judgement of you. Anyone who does try to speak on the extent of their charismatic abilities runs the risk of being perceived as narcissistic as @Deleted member 16771 mentioned, because it is deemed as a form of self-aggrandisement. That is not to say one cannot be aware of themselves, but that there is of course a fine line between self-confidence and ego.

There are arguably different types of charisma, and no set universal form of it. This in turn means that there is a different audience for each: what one may find 'magnetic' could be off-putting for another; each form arguably brings with it its own different set of benefits. I believe that it takes a special sort to be truly charismatic, to achieve a form of status naturally and instinctively without having to purposefully 'sell' themselves to others and gain an attention they otherwise would not receive.
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
So yeah... I have to say that I don't think this position is particularly healthy. Leaders must arise naturally from the community rather than being elevated above it.
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I agree.

Another thing I've noticed is that a lot of charismatic people, who seem to be naturally charismatic, don't seem to spend a lot of time pondering the nature of their 'self'. Some might even be not especially introspective. Their charisma is projected outward and this seems to be healthy and sustainable for them.

The situation seems more complicated for someone with a heavy tendency toward introspection. I know that the (honestly relatively few) times I've been called charismatic, it flattered my ego on the surface but deeper down it confused me and make me feel unnerved and analysed, a little bit like you maybe.
 
Pin said:
I'm charismatic but I don't turn it on unless necessary.
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What would be some examples of cases where turning it on is 'necessary'?

You're pretty charismatic Pin, and at all times imo.

Rit4lin said:
Anyone who does try to speak on the extent of their charismatic abilities runs the risk of being perceived as narcissistic as @Deleted member 16771 mentioned, because it is deemed as a form of self-aggrandisement.
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Yes, that's true. I can confirm this from personal experience as well.

Rit4lin said:
There are arguably different types of charisma, and no set universal form of it. This in turn means that there is a different audience for each: what one may find 'magnetic' could be off-putting for another; each form arguably brings with it its own different set of benefits. I believe that it takes a special sort to be truly charismatic, to achieve a form of status naturally and instinctively without having to purposefully 'sell' themselves to others and gain an attention they otherwise would not receive.
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There is probably no universal form of charisma, but it does seem like the most charismatic people are not very situation-dependent. They just are charismatic. Perhaps we could say the more charismatic, the less likely to be seen as charismatic in specific situations only.
 
Rit4lin said:
This in turn means that there is a different audience for each: what one may find 'magnetic' could be off-putting for another; each form arguably brings with it its own different set of benefits.
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This is a great point, and I was thinking something along the same lines. I'm not drawn to the same people that others are, and vice versa - affinity and empathy is important.

Ren said:
Another thing I've noticed is that a lot of charismatic people, who seem to be naturally charismatic, don't seem to spend a lot of time pondering the nature of their 'self'. Some might even be not especially introspective. Their charisma is projected outward and this seems to be healthy and sustainable for them.
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I think this might be something to do with the mystery that is generated when a person chooses not to display their inner life, rather than something strictly about an internal characteristic. It's easier to objectify and idealise people without visible 'inner life' because, first, they function as a blank slate upon which we might project our own ideals, and second, we might imagine that they're 'coping better', 'doing better' than we are.

It's like the sage - the person who advises everyone but refuses to be advised. They cultivate an aura of inhuman groundedness that people objectify; attracted to the idea of an infallible demi-god with the power to solve all of their problems; a living avatar of the godhead, the father energy.
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
This is a great point, and I was thinking something along the same lines. I'm not drawn to the same people that others are, and vice versa - affinity and empathy is important.


I think this might be something to do with the mystery that is generated when a person chooses not to display their inner life, rather than something strictly about an internal characteristic. It's easier to objectify and idealise people without visible 'inner life' because, first, they function as a blank slate upon which we might project our own ideals, and second, we might imagine that they're 'coping better', 'doing better' than we are.

It's like the sage - the person who advises everyone but refuses to be advised. They cultivate an aura of inhuman groundedness that people objectify; attracted to the idea of an infallible demi-god with the power to solve all of their problems; a living avatar of the godhead, the father energy.
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