[PUG] Chivalry is sexist

Chivalry is just a type of custom which is sex specific. What's wrong with that?


Holding a door open is not insulting or demeaning, it is just a custom which turned out to be sex-specific.

Men and hats. Another sex-specific custom which has faded because of changes in fashion was that men took off their hats indoors when not in their own house as an act of respect. Women could leave their hats on. It is just a custom. Customs might be silly, but they are not derrogatory. Customs are usually fun and help the sexes feel more connected with other members of their sex.

Chivalry is partly about men feeling connected with other men (an assertion of masculinity), by sharing similar male customs, such as opening doors. In some African cultures men pay especial attention to keeping their teeth unnaturally white. It is silly, it is fun, it helps those African tribesmen to identify with other men. One thing it is NOT is something malicious or bad or derrogatory.

On the flipside, I think it is inconsiderate when either sex pointedly practices customs which are proper to the other sex. Women who insist on opening doors for men, take away a legitimate expression of masculinity.

Most male specific customs have some reference to women in their practice, because men probably identify themselves in relation to women more than women identify themselves in relation to men.
 
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Dragon said:
I'm completely serious. Who do you think you are, asking these kind of questions? Are you or have you ever been a member of the communist party? Would I do anything but make a grace inspired argument out of compassion and the goodness of my heart? Arguing that women should be equal is a communist conspiracy.
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I consider myself a fellow communist. Maybe we should consider starting an INFJ communist party since we clearly are apt to conspiracy theories by design. :D
 
acd said:
Flavus, you are a sexist. Admit it.
;P
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I am male and I enjoy acting like a male.

Since we males see our masculinity very much in reference to women, how do you propose that I can legitimately act like a male without coming across as sexist?

Suggestions?
 
Flavus Aquila said:
I am male and I enjoy acting like a male.

Since we males see our masculinity very much in reference to women, how do you propose that I can legitimately act like a male without coming across as sexist?

Suggestions?
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I was teasing you because I like you.

I thought you made a good point. I don't think it's bad to identify as a male or a female, and I read nothing in your post to imply you found one superior to the other. I was being sarcastic with you.
 
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Totally agree with Dragon. and MindYourHead about the Christianity.

Men are men and women are women. It's not a chivalry vs. feminism thing, it's just facts. Men are physically stronger period. Women physically have children period. I'm quite the tomboy, but I love it when a guy treats me like a lady.
 
acd said:
I was teasing you because I like you.
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Oh... thanks. We should go out to lunch some time - I'll pay. :p





Seriously, agressive feminism (feminism which attacks masculine behaviour) and agressive political correctness are very repellent to me, because if you are a white male, they seek to take away all legitimate enjoyment you might have about being you.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
Oh... thanks. We should go out to lunch some time - I'll pay. :p





Seriously, agressive feminism (feminism which attacks masculine behaviour) and agressive political correctness are very repellent to me, because if you are a white male, they seek to take away all legitimate enjoyment you might have about being you.
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Thats a very sad point :(
//gives you a muffin
I'm not a big fan of aggressive feminism either, since I *like* men and masculinity, just not pig-ness, but who does? I like men being men, and telling you not to be is downright cruel, especially since you have to battle those guys featured in the anti-gay threads who will beat you as kids if you're not manly enough.
 
Betteralone said:
Totally agree with Dragon. and MindYourHead about the Christianity.

Men are men and women are women. It's not a chivalry vs. feminism thing, it's just facts. Men are physically stronger period. Women physically have children period. I'm quite the tomboy, but I love it when a guy treats me like a lady.
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Yeah but it's alright if someone doesn't like it, and refuses it, correct?

What if I am a female who identifies as more male?
 
What does identifying as a male entail to you, slant?
 
slant said:
Yeah but it's alright if someone doesn't like it, and refuses it, correct?

What if I am a female who identifies as more male?
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Open doors for ladies. Men will open doors for men, usually saying "ladies first" as the other men go through.
 
I go through life expecting people to open doors for me, because I am their better. You should do the same.
 
Betteralone said:
Totally agree with Dragon. and MindYourHead about the Christianity.

Men are men and women are women. It's not a chivalry vs. feminism thing, it's just facts. Men are physically stronger period. Women physically have children period. I'm quite the tomboy, but I love it when a guy treats me like a lady.
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I love it when I am treated like a lady as well.
 
I agree that chivalry is based on a number of underlying sexist assumptions. It doesn't offend me though partly because I'm not easily offended especially if the intentions are well meaning. If a person is trying to show respect I appreciate it in any guise it comes in. I am a feminist and will just as often hold a door for a man if they are entering behind me.

Edit: I don't think in terms of gender roles primarily because I don't define people based on physical attributes, but on the more abstract, inner qualities of intellect and personality. I know it is important to me to be taken for my ideas and not assumed to have a different capacity based on my body.
 
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You know Slant, you could make the argument that his insisting on opening the door for you to go first is also an act of cowardice.

For all he knows on the other side of that door is a gun wielding sociopath and when he opened the door for you it startled the psycho and you got shot because you were the first one in the door.
 
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