Cologne Imam Finally Speaks Out About New Years' Assaults

[Elegant Winter]

Ehh. Rather not get into that, but i'll simply say I understand all perspectives even if I don't support them.
But how about you? What are your thoughts on it?

I want to annihilate it.

 

[Persona]

I want to annihilate it.

Fair enough:smash:
Referring to your DP, do you watch anime?

 

[Eventhorizon]

There needs to be a better vetting process. I know its impossible given the vast size of refugees we are talking about. But a governments first and foremost rule is protecting its own people. If it doesn't have a viable plan to do that, it doesn't have the right to throw caution to the wind.

For at least here in America the influx of refugees needs to stop until safety now and in the future can be guaranteed. Its sad that innocents will be published because of noninoccents but maybe this will convince that population to start turning in extremists.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

There needs to be a better vetting process. I know its impossible given the vast size of refugees we are talking about. But a governments first and foremost rule is protecting its own people. If it doesn't have a viable plan to do that, it doesn't have the right to throw caution to the wind.

For at least here in America the influx of refugees needs to stop until safety now and in the future can be guaranteed. Its sad that innocents will be published because of noninoccents but maybe this will convince that population to start turning in extremists.

If screening and education in "cultural differences" are not up to par, wouldn't it seem better to provide refuge off-shore?

The Middle-Eastern countries (except Jordan and Lebanon) have taken virtually no refugees. Integration and cultural similarities would seem better in places like Iran, for instance.

Now that Iran is open for trade, perhaps certain concessions/aid could be provided, on the proviso that "x" number of Syrian refugees be taken. Providing refuge imo doesn't always mean it has to be within one's boarders.


**side-note (which may not be relevant to many)** Even in the good samaritan narrative, the injured traveler was put up in accommodation, paid for by the Samaritan, who continued on his way.

 

[Eventhorizon]

If screening and education in "cultural differences" are not up to par, wouldn't it seem better to provide refuge off-shore?

The Middle-Eastern countries (except Jordan and Lebanon) have taken virtually no refugees. Integration and cultural similarities would seem better in places like Iran, for instance.

Now that Iran is open for trade, perhaps certain concessions/aid could be provided, on the proviso that "x" number of Syrian refugees be taken. Providing refuge imo doesn't always mean it has to be within one's boarders.


**side-note (which may not be relevant to many)** Even in the good samaritan narrative, the injured traveler was put up in accommodation, paid for by the Samaritan, who continued on his way.

There are entire ghost cities in China. So its not like there isnt a place for them to go.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

There are entire ghost cities in China. So its not like there isnt a place for them to go.

Somehow, I don't think the Chinese put humanitarian issue very high on the list of budget priorities.

Plus, I think they would be far more pragmatic about not wanting the nasty baggage that comes with muslim refugees.



An additional issue is that you might not be able to get the so-called refugees to actually go to China. Apparently many refugees are returning to Syria, because German government handouts were not up to their expectations. China isn't very big on welfare - in a communist country you have to work, like it or not.

 

[Eventhorizon]

Somehow, I don't think the Chinese put humanitarian issue very high on the list of budget priorities.

Plus, I think they would be far more pragmatic about not wanting the nasty baggage that comes with muslim refugees.



An additional issue is that you might not be able to get the so-called refugees to actually go to China. Apparently many refugees are returning to Syria, because German government handouts were not up to their expectations. China isn't very big on welfare - in a communist country you have to work, like it or not.

They are fleeing war apparently. It is up to them to decide what they find is an acceptable alternative. In any case I see no reason why we need to take care of them. There are plenty 9f places for them to go. And as I said before, until the governments can guarantee the safety of their people, they should not proceed with any plan that may have or has proven to affect that.

 

[Elegant Winter]

They are fleeing war apparently. It is up to them to decide what they find is an acceptable alternative. In any case I see no reason why we need to take care of them. There are plenty 9f places for them to go. And as I said before, until the governments can guarantee the safety of their people, they should not proceed with any plan that may have or has proven to affect that.

I agree.

 

[Free]

I have some very conflicting thoughts on this. It's not like our societies were perfect before the refugees. Rape will still exist and crime will still endure in this world with or without the refugees, even here in the good 'ol US of A. Now, that being said, what I find even more disturbing than the acts of crime themselves is the unwillingness to punish them for it. I think a government should protect its citizens first and foremost. But, I also believe in refugees having a safe haven that's away from war and political strife. One day, we may need a safe haven to go to as well. Most won't rape and pillage, but it's probable that some will. And those should be punished accordingly. That's all I want, a little justice in this world for rapist scumbags, regardless of who or what they call god. The war on Islam is a whole other factor for me to consider.

 

[Elegant Winter]

I have some very conflicting thoughts on this. It's not like our societies were perfect before the refugees. Rape will still exist and crime will still endure in this world with or without the refugees, even here in the good 'ol US of A. Now, that being said, what I find even more disturbing than the acts of crime themselves is the unwillingness to punish them for it. I think a government should protect its citizens first and foremost. But, I also believe in refugees having a safe haven that's away from war and political strife. One day, we may need a safe haven to go to as well. Most won't rape and pillage, but it's probable that some will. And those should be punished accordingly. That's all I want, a little justice in this world for rapist scumbags, regardless of who or what they call god. The war on Islam is a whole other factor for me to consider.

I have two questions.

Do you think they should be forced to return once the war is over?

Also, it's worth noting that not all of these "refugees" are Syrian or even from that general area. What of African migrants? Migrants from Somalia, for example. There are large Somali communities (10k+) in Maine and Iowa already. What of these folks?

Do you think African and Middle Eastern countries would accommodate European migrants/refugees if the tables were turned?

 

[Free]

I have two questions.

Do you think they should be forced to return once the war is over?

Also, it's worth noting that not all of these "refugees" are Syrian or even from that general area. What of the African migrants? Migrants from Somalia, for example. There are large Somali communities (10k+) in Maine and Iowa already. What of these folks?

Do you think African and Middle Eastern countries would accommodate European migrants and refugees if the tables were turned?

I would like to think that that have a choice in the matter, to either return to their home country or become a citizen of a new country. However, if they choose the latter, I would hope that that is indeed what they do and will not remain a burden to tax payers under illegal status nor be resistant to assimilation of the new culture the will be immersed in.

I would also think that if the need ever came that these countries would indeed take in Euorpean/Western migrants and refugees if the tables were turned.

But, what I think should be isn't how it really is. What I hope for in this world is asking too much of human nature.

 

[Elegant Winter]

I would like to think that that have a choice in the matter, to either return to their home country or become a citizen of a new country. However, if they choose the latter, I would hope that that is indeed what they do and will not remain a burden to tax payers under illegal status nor be resistant to assimilation of the new culture the will be immersed in.

I would also think that if the need ever came that these countries would indeed take in Euorpean/Western migrants and refugees if the tables were turned.

But, what I think should be isn't how it really is. What I hope for in this world is asking too much of human nature.

Yes, but only because self-preservation is an element of human nature.

 

[Free]

Yes, but only because self-preservation is an element of human nature.

I have never disagreed on that point. I think that self-preservation is a base instinct. But I also think that our more evolved brains allow us to think past and act above animalistic behaviors. The crimes of the refugees are in that category of animalistic behavior. My point was, though, that that behavior will always exist amongst humans whether or not that they are refugees.

 

[Elegant Winter]

I have never disagreed on that point. I think that self-preservation is a base instinct. But I also think that our more evolved brains allow us to think past and act above animalistic behaviors. The crimes of the refugees are in that category of animalistic behavior. My point was, though, that that behavior will always exist amongst humans whether or not that they are refugees.

Self-preservation isn't always "base." As applied to this situation, it means the preservation of our cultures and identities. I think it extends that far. I would not consider that base or animalistic.

Anyway, back to your point. It will exist, yes, but in different amounts and varieties.

 

[Free]

Self-preservation isn't always "base." As applied to this situation, it means the preservation of our cultures and identities. I think it extends that far. I would not consider that base or animalistic.

When I said "base" I meant it as an innate instinct within all conscious life. How far your perception extends that is is within the individual. And, in fact, I do agree with the preservation of our cultures and identities, hence why I said in a perfect world, refugees would assimilate if they chose to remain and become citizens.

Anyway, back to your point. It will exist, yes, but it in different amounts and varieties.

Agreed. As I stated above, the amounts and varieties of such are dependent on the individual's own perception.

 

[Elegant Winter]

When I said "base" I meant it as an innate instinct within all conscious life. How far your perception extends that is is within the individual. And, in fact, I do agree with the preservation of our cultures and identities, hence why I said in a perfect world, refugees would assimilate if they chose to remain and become citizens.

Agreed. As I stated above, the amounts and varieties of such are dependent on the individual's own perception.

This hasn't happened in the United States with African Americans and they have been here for a while. It may never happen. I often wonder why such large segments of the African American population have no interest whatsoever in assimilating. It's very interesting.

Either way, it's clear that having different peoples within the same space only creates tension, division and instability. This is one of the reasons "white flight" occurs. Inviting more foreigners (especially third world migrants) into our countries will only increase the scale of the disaster.

 

[Free]

This hasn't happened in the United States with African Americans and they have been here for a while. It may never happen. I often wonder why such large segments of the African American population have no interest whatsoever in assimilating. It's very interesting.

Either way, it's clear that having different peoples within the same place only creates tension, division and instability. This is one of the reasons "white flight" occurs. Also, inviting more foreigners into our countries will only increase the proportion of the disaster.

I respectfully disagree. Being the daughter of immigrants, first generation American, and living proof that different peoples can and do live symbiotically and harmoniously together, carrying traditions and values from their previous cultures and assimilating to a new one. It can and does happen, all the time.

 

[Elegant Winter]

I respectfully disagree. Being the daughter of immigrants, first generation American, and living proof that different peoples can and do live symbiotically and harmoniously together, carrying traditions and values from their previous cultures and assimilating to a new one. It can and does happen, all the time.

European immigrants?

 

[Eventhorizon]

America is made of immigrants. We need imagrants quite honestly. Legal immigrants.

As for this refugee thing... Americans need to be protected first an foremost. Lets be serious. This is another throw your chips where you may and lets see how they land Democrat mentally about how to deal with the issue. No real plan. And here in America the people pay the price for it. When it gets bad enough Democrats will beg for help from Republicans as always and demand to be labeled as part of the solution....
But I digress.

 

[Elegant Winter]

America is made of immigrants. We need imagrants quite honestly. Legal immigrants.

As for this refugee thing... Americans need to be protected first an foremost. Lets be serious. This is another throw your chips where you may and lets see how they land Democrat mentally about how to deal with the issue. No real plan. And here in America the people pay the price for it. When it gets bad enough Democrats will beg for help from Republicans as always and demand to be labeled as part of the solution....
But I digress.

Yea, European immigrants.

Also, why do we need immigrants?