Could there be a gay gene?

[Barnabas]

I feel like all of the above might be a plausible answer.

 

[IndigoSensor]

But if they've convinced themselves that they are something else, then haven't they successfully changed their nature? I would personally say so. Then again, I don't believe that one's nature is as concrete as you suggest. Although, like concrete, something can shatter it into a billion pieces with enough force behind it.

No. You can convince yourself you are happy, and pretend that you are to the point where you think you are (along with everyone else around you). However, you can still hurt inside. People can do strange things to themselves when they are prevented with the correct stimuli. Death of a loved one can do this kind of thing, but it doesn't actually changed who they are. It just creates walls, barriers, and facades that can remain in place for years.

I think many things that define a person are quite static, and sexuality is one of them. Many of you might call me stubborn, but I will never be convinced that sexuality is anything but of biological origin and inate to a person. Therefore, the core foundation of it can not be changed.

 

[Detective Conan]

No. You can convince yourself you are happy, and pretend that you are to the point where you think you are (along with everyone else around you). However, you can still hurt inside. People can do strange things to themselves when they are prevented with the correct stimuli. Death of a loved one can do this kind of thing, but it doesn't actually changed who they are. It just creates walls, barriers, and facades that can remain in place for years.

I disagree with both of the bolded points here (I obviously disagreed with your third spiel, as stated in one of my above posts). First of all, I think that if a person has the will and desire to believe something, then they can do so and not feel any pain from it at all. To the second bolded point, I think that mental trauma of any kind and of intense strength has the potential to change one's nature (case and point, speaking).

 

[Raccoon Love]

I am not going to lie, I have been through trauma before. I was constantly abused, and I had a clear feminine persona. This has put certain fears of me when it comes to both sexes, however, I do not believe they have really determined my sexuality. Since I was small, I have always had the idealistic view that I would be a great dad, caring, etc. This was not innate however, and it was never sexual in manner. I have always related to girls better then guys, and most of my friends have been girls. Once I hit the age of about 10, I noticed that I had a clear attraction for the same gender. I would be looking at other boys. Before I had reach that age though, I was already subject of abuse by many males. This continued for a while, and I really dislike school for this reason, however I got to the point where I just did not care. I just follow a long with it, and later their insults made me a bit curious. They were constantly saying that ''you like guys'' or ''that guy'' or certain body parts, this made me feel very nervous yet I won't lie, I sort of started enjoying this questioning. I wanted to know more, I wanted to experience. After that, I was heavily interested in looking at pictures, my imagination grew. I loved the thought of being with another guy, I would constantly fantasize about this.

So in conclusion, I do not know how my own experience will play out. I have always thought it was genetic, though I was pretty indifferent on sexual matters when I was younger. I was always in my own world. My later realization of my sexuality came after an abusive period, which would suggest environmental issues.

I believe genetic factors plays a huge influence, but the period of growth specially before/during puberty is CRUCIAL towards ones development.

 

[Barnabas]

I was talking with some of my counseling buddies yesterday, one of which wants to specialize in abused women and children.

She mention a statistic that about 1 in 6 Americans are homosexual, while the number in abuse victims rises to 4 in 6 being homosexual.

 

[Zero Angel]

I'm going to be the go with indigo and select 'disease', because thats the only selection which has the word 'mutation' in it -- despite the fact that the word 'disease' has a negative connotation (like cancer or HIV) while homosexuality is a neutral phenomenon.

That said, I'm using the context of 'mutation' simply means a change in genetic markers from parents to offspring.

I just don't believe that there is a particular gene for homosexuality, in the context of parents passing the genetic material to offspring. If that were the case, homosexuality would run in families, whereas it does not appear to. More likely, it seems to be either acquired at a very early age (which could account for physiological differences), or the result of a genetic mutation (which might result in hormonal deficiency).

 

[gloomy-optimist]

I'm sorry but I don't believe that this can be done. People can convince themselves that they have changed sexuality, but that doesn't actually make it true. One can live with a facade within themselves for years and make it appear true to themselves and everyone else around them. However, this does not change the persons true nature (which is impossible to change).

There is more to a person's identity than genetics. The reality is, if a person is attracted to a certain sex at a given time, then that describes their orientation. Whether that is a facade or not; well, that's not up to the rest of the world to determine. There aren't many people who decide to just become gay for fun, and when a person identifies themselves as homosexual, they usually have a reason for doing so. Their "true nature" doesn't matter at that time because they probably don't realize that their "true nature" is separate from the identity they have at that time.

I don't believe anyone has the right to look at someone's sexuality and say that it's "wrong." And I don't believe that the gay community, in their conquest to have their lifestyle accepted by the rest of the world, reserve the right to denounce anyone on their sexual orientation, be it what they believe as "true" or not. The reality is, there are psychological reasons that some people have their sexual preference; if you want to argue that the amount of time that a person feels strong inclinations towards a certain sex makes it any more or less "real," then I'm not sure what to tell you. Quite frankly, attraction is attraction, and I feel it is kind of elitist to try to tell anyone that their attraction is a "lie" just because it is psychologically rooted.

Like I've said, sexual orientation can be more difficult than just I'm-this-and-you're-that. If you're going to try to denounce those who feel attraction to a certain group on time spans, then you're going to alienate another group of people that are having difficulties with sexuality. It's not simple, and it's not like the person just decides on attraction like it's a flavor of ice cream, even in this case.

 

[dark_angel]

Their "true nature" doesn't matter at that time because they probably don't realize that their "true nature" is separate from the identity they have at that time.

The reality is, there are psychological reasons that some people have their sexual preference; if you want to argue that the amount of time that a person feels strong inclinations towards a certain sex makes it any more or less "real," then I'm not sure what to tell you. Quite frankly, attraction is attraction, and I feel it is kind of elitist to try to tell anyone that their attraction is a "lie" just because it is psychologically rooted.

I would like to understand this better, would you mind giving an example or a few examples as I think I would understand it better if it was put into context. (you can PM me if you like)....am just craving to understand is all.

 

[gloomy-optimist]

Their "true nature" doesn't matter at that time because they probably don't realize that their "true nature" is separate from the identity they have at that time.

The reality is, there are psychological reasons that some people have their sexual preference; if you want to argue that the amount of time that a person feels strong inclinations towards a certain sex makes it any more or less "real," then I'm not sure what to tell you. Quite frankly, attraction is attraction, and I feel it is kind of elitist to try to tell anyone that their attraction is a "lie" just because it is psychologically rooted.

I would like to understand this better, would you mind giving an example or a few examples as I think I would understand it better if it was put into context. (you can PM me if you like)....am just craving to understand is all.

Well, let's say you are, at some point in time, convinced that you are gay or bisexual. You'd have to be at least somewhat convinced of this in order to act it; in any case, you at least believe that you are somewhat attracted to whatever sex you are pursuing.

If this were the case, would it necessarily be important what you "naturally" are because, at that moment, you know yourself to be something different. It's not like you're just playing dress-up or something; you seriously consider yourself to be attracted to this-or-that sex. If that's the case, during that time you feel that attraction, it can't be false for you because you ARE actually feeling it. It's a real, legitimate attraction.

In certain abuse cases, the following trauma may instill a distaste for whomever may have caused the abuse. Take, for instance, a girl who was sexually abused by a male. She may, as a result, find a healthy relationship with a male to be difficult, given that in her past all the sexual contact with a male was negative. As such, she may become attracted to women instead. This is a learned behavior, but it is also very powerful, and her attraction may be very real. Even if "biologically" all signs say she should be straight, and even if someday she finds that she can be attracted to males as well, during that time she is legitimately exhibiting homosexual tendencies.

And personally, I think that if you tried to tell this person that she was not a lesbian because she wasn't "born that way," she'd probably wouldn't be too happy because her feelings and attractions are legitimate, even if they may be complicated and painful. I don't like the idea of someone in that situation being rejected from both the straight and gay cultures because she doesn't fit into their view of what straight and gay "means."

 

[dark_angel]

Well, let's say you are, at some point in time, convinced that you are gay or bisexual. You'd have to be at least somewhat convinced of this in order to act it; in any case, you at least believe that you are somewhat attracted to whatever sex you are pursuing.

If this were the case, would it necessarily be important what you "naturally" are because, at that moment, you know yourself to be something different. It's not like you're just playing dress-up or something; you seriously consider yourself to be attracted to this-or-that sex. If that's the case, during that time you feel that attraction, it can't be false for you because you ARE actually feeling it. It's a real, legitimate attraction.

In certain abuse cases, the following trauma may instill a distaste for whomever may have caused the abuse. Take, for instance, a girl who was sexually abused by a male. She may, as a result, find a healthy relationship with a male to be difficult, given that in her past all the sexual contact with a male was negative. As such, she may become attracted to women instead. This is a learned behavior, but it is also very powerful, and her attraction may be very real. Even if "biologically" all signs say she should be straight, and even if someday she finds that she can be attracted to males as well, during that time she is legitimately exhibiting homosexual tendencies.

And personally, I think that if you tried to tell this person that she was not a lesbian because she wasn't "born that way," she'd probably wouldn't be too happy because her feelings and attractions are legitimate, even if they may be complicated and painful. I don't like the idea of someone in that situation being rejected from both the straight and gay cultures because she doesn't fit into their view of what straight and gay "means."

This I can understand and I would actually consider them to be bisexual with them having had a bad experience with men and preferring woman for the time being. If they are open with their partner about this then that is fine.

I was actually referring to a scenario likes this: the woman has never been attracted to women or curious about them at all (no sexual urges what so ever), has had happy relationships with men until a very abusive relationship comes along and they are shattered, psychologically abused and physically. They refrain from men totally, not even friendship. They become friends with a lesbian or bisexual female through friends or per chance and get flattered by the attention and feel safe. I must say for some lesbians or bisexual woman

 

[slant]

Could there be a gay gene? Why, anything is possible my dear boy.

 

[BostonAndy]

That is partially what I'm referring to. That could be a fear response, but how likely is that?

Also, though, gay men, at least some gay men (I can't say with certainty that all gay men are like this), are more sensitive in some areas than straight men (i.e. nipples).

Edit: If it were a fear response, wouldn't we be able to find other characteristics of a fear response in gay men?

the hypothalamus study was eventually dismissed for just these kinds of questions. and of course, the fact that you can only test the brain in autopsy makes it imposible to figure out what causes it.

It may have validity, but without being able to see if behavior affects it, or whether gay people are born that way, there is no real way to track it at this time.

perhaps science will one day develop to that point, but as for now, it has not.

 

[Satya]

Not to mention that many of the gay cadavers that are used for this kind of study were HIV positive and that the effects on the brain may have been the result of AIDs rather than developmental.