Could this seemingly doomed ENTP-INFJ romance have a future?

[Pthtctmp]

Adding to the countless sad iterations of the "random ENTP guy tries to pick up INFJ lady" topic, here's my drama, I would really appreciate if some of you could help me out with some insights into the INFJ mind.

We (late 20s ENTP guy, early 20s INFJ lady) met on a meeting at work, and we both kind of melted down when we first saw each other: my heart skipped every other beat, she babbled and blushed instantly, and we had a very hard time concentrating on work-related discussions (there were some other colleagues at the meeting btw, it was not even a one-on-one, I'm afraid what others thought of us ). Then we barely talked to each other for several months, as we were not very close colleagues, and we both kind of tried to avoid each other, since we're both in long-term, committed relationships (I am actually married with kids - shame on me, I know), but we bumped into each other a few times, and on one of these occasions (like the fifth or sixth time that we even talked to each other) she casually dropped that she has some really bad issues right now in her life and she feels like she has no one to talk to. I obviously volunteered to have a cup of coffee together, listen to her and offer some advice if possible, as I felt this intense need to help her in any way possible.

This was our first one-on-one meeting, and just by sitting around a table talking we experienced a connection that was unlike anything else in our lives (she verbally confirmed that this feeling was mutual), I honestly didn't even think this kind of deep connection to another person was possible (and I briefly dated at least one INFJ earlier, so I don't think it's just type compatibility). Since this encounter, we've both been losing sleep thinking about each other, and my intuition is telling me that we belong together and the best thing for both of us would be to start a new life together, knowing well that the transition would be very stressful and difficult for both of us and for other people in our lives. I suspect that she feels the same, but several days later she told me she wants to be only friends with me. I was ready to take this at face value, and I stopped pursuing her, but a few days later she sent the most romantic song to me about forbidden love and unfulfilled desires without any comment, and refuses to elaborate on that any further. Since then, we had a few short friendly encounters, during which she behaves either kind of flirty or kind of distant, often both at the same time, and it is just driving me crazy. I don't want to disrespect her explicit request of remaining friends only, but I strongly sense that this is not what she wants either. I also sense that she severely deprioritizes her own needs over other people's needs, and I don't think it is good for her on the long run. So this is where I would need some insight: what could be going on inside this particular INFJ lady's mind and how should I act that would be the most beneficial for her? I think the best thing for both of us is to break free and build a new life together, but I am afraid it's just plain old ENTP selfishness I've been struggling with in my youth and in reality this would only be the best thing for me and might not be the best for her (and of course not the best for my family, which is also a factor in any decision I make). Also I think it might sound crazy (or actually be crazy) to blow up our current lives based on several platonic encounters even though I think we know each other much better than we should based on the time we spent together. So I am really at a loss, please help and don't beat me up too much about the immorality of our romance - I don't think we technically cheated on our respective partners, we barely had any physical contact aside from a few supportive hugs, and I am not thinking about having an affair, but starting a proper relationship after closing our current ones.

 

[Asa]

The first thing you need to do is decide whether you want to be married to your spouse or not. This has nothing to do with the INFJ.
If you want to be married, forget the INFJ, keep your distance at work, and focus on your marriage. Try to make your marriage stronger and more fulfilling for both of you. If you don't want to be married, move out. It can be a trial separation or a permanent one, but whatever you do, move out and decide on the terms. If you want a trial separation, you need to agree on the terms of the separation and decide on a date (for example, six months) to revisit your marriage.

The only other choice here is that you and your spouse decide on an open marriage where your spouse agrees you are both allowed to date other people and what the terms will be. You need to agree. If you're uncomfortable with her dating other men while you date other women, you're not mature enough to handle this arrangement.

If you make this move, you must face the reality that the INFJ may stay with her partner, and the relationship you long for will not come to fruition. Or, even if she leaves her partner, this new relationship may not work out. This has to be your decision for your future. Rearranging one's life for a potential relationship is not a great idea for anyone.

No matter what happens, you're a dad, and the kids need to be a major part of your life.

It's easy to fantasize about an idealized relationship before you're even in that relationship. Even relationships with soulmates, with the perfect person for you, will eventually have issues that test the bond. It could be health, mental wellness, money issues, or family, but it will happen. You don't know her that well yet, so she seems perfect. The old married person's saying about enjoying a person's quirks more than their good facets is true. Do you even know her well enough to know what those quirks are? –– This is why this decision ultimately has to be about what is best for you in the long run. If this marriage isn't best for you in the long run, get out regardless of whether someone is waiting for you on the sidelines. If you're just fantasizing about an idealized romance that will not be the reality once you're in it, snap out of it and work on the marriage you already made a life commitment to.

Cheating is not an option. You cannot erase mistakes, and that will be a huge one.

 

[Pthtctmp]

Thanks for the detailed reply. I would normally agree with you that my decision on my marriage has nothing to do with the INFJ, but I wasn’t questioning my marriage at all until this encounter. (Btw I definitely want to play an important role in my kids’ life no matter what happens to my marriage.)

 

[Sidis Coruscatis]

I would suggest you sit down and think about why you married your wife. Then think about why you decided to have children with her.

The profaned view of marriage today is that it is something you can freely opt out of, but the well-being of your kids is directly tied to it, so it doesn't much matter if you just want to dump your wife but still be around them. If common sense and ancient wisdom is not enough, there's plenty of research corroborating that destabilization of family leads to behavioral problems in children.

This is also true of open "marriage," which makes as much sense as a loosening glue, if you decide to try that route. It doesn't matter if your wife consents to it. You need to give your full attention to your woman if you hope to keep your relations healthy and your kids happy; a house divided against itself cannot stand.

You've made a series of decisions that placed a heavy responsibility on you—now carry it.

 

[Asa]

Thanks for the detailed reply. I would normally agree with you that my decision on my marriage has nothing to do with the INFJ, but I wasn’t questioning my marriage at all until this encounter. (Btw I definitely want to play an important role in my kids’ life no matter what happens to my marriage.)

This doesn't change my reply.

You're at a crossroads. It doesn't matter if you didn't question your marriage in the past. You are now questioning ending or damaging the marriage to be with someone else. This is a life decision. You're choosing to be married or single.
1. Honoring your commitment, focusing on your marriage, and on the life you signed up for when you agreed to be a married man.
2. Being single, trying to be a good dad from afar, with the chance of a new relationship. Allowing a stepdad into your children's lives and working with your ex and her new partner to raise your kids well. (No guarantee your wife will not hate you and fail to cooperate.) Bonus: Maybe you and this INFJ will work out, at least for a while.

I do know marriages that have had trial separations, and when they got back together, the marriage was stronger, but that is rare. As soon as you bring up a trial separation or an open relationship, you need to be prepared for the relationship to end. You can also never do this again. You can't ask for a trial separation every time your heart flutters.

Honestly, I can't say what path is right for you because I don't know what your marriage is like. Both decisions will take work on your part. It is essential that you realize your decision isn't about jumping from one secure, committed, long-term relationship to another and you're just changing which woman this life will be with. You're choosing to stay married or to be single with the potential for other relationships.

there's plenty of research corroborating that destabilization of family leads to behavioral problems in children.

Yes, you're right, there is. There is also plenty of research about how unhealthy marriages and unhealthy role models negatively affect kids, their mental health, and their future relationships.

Kids can grow up with healthy role models in situations where there is divorce, but it takes maturity, love, and accepting responsibility from all adults involved. Saving a marriage only for the kids isn't healthy for the kids, either.

 

[John K]

So this is where I would need some insight: what could be going on inside this particular INFJ lady's mind and how should I act that would be the most beneficial for her?

You haven't really given nearly enough information to understand this with any certainty. But INFJ type people are big, deep picture types, with an acute sensitivity to the emotional aspects of a relationship situation like this and a strong orientation to the possible futures. I'm assuming that she knows you are married with young children - she is certain to be acutely aware that if she ever did partner up with you, that means she must also partner up with your children. That is a big unknown to her, because you can never make a clean break with your family unless you lose all contact with your children, or unless they live with you and she becomes their step-mum. You would have ongoing financial commitments to them as well. She's pretty likely to feel in advance the possible emotional roller-coaster trauma fallout of all this prospect, in all its uncertainty. She's also maybe wondering / fearing whether you would in the end leave your family for her - INFJs get hurt very badly when they commit to someone and are let down.

But this is all speculation. What's for sure is that the situation is very different when you have kids rather than when there are just the two of you. Your commitment to your kids should be at least as strong as it is to your partner, and you would be leaving them as well as your wife unless they came to live with you rather than her. Of course they would continue to see you afterwards if you come to some sort of agreement about it, but even if that feels OK to you, the kids will still feel you have left them. One of the things children fear most is the loss of a parent, and many kids blame themselves for their parents' breakup - logic doesn't come into it, and that's the way some of them explain the apparent loss of love from the one who left them. I know from experience that the damage this causes to at least some kids can last throughout their lives and blight them.

 

[Korg]

Heart skipping
Can't concentrate
Connection unlike anything else
Losing sleep
Romantic songs
Flirtation

...sounds like limerence. I didn't see a single, clear minded sentence about value alignment or goals which is more important to a long term relationship than warm fuzzies over coffee.

If you love your wife and are committed to her and your children, then part of your responsibility is to navigate this in a way that doesn't jeopardize the integrity of the family unit you built. It's not about you anymore.

It's fine to catch mutual feelings for other women. It happens. Be flattered and acknowledge it. But have the character to subordinate that opportunity to your chosen responsibility as a husband and father.

 

[Pthtctmp]

Thank you for the fast, empathetic and wise replies. I don’t want to offer a lot more details for confidentiality reasons, but there is actually a clear value alignment and a lot of shared interests (with a focus just different enough to be fascinating). We are both aware of each other’s circumstances.

What other details could be relevant?

(I am also keenly aware of the consequences for my family, so this might be entirely hypothetic, but I would still feel better if I had a better understanding of what’s going on)

 

[Wyote]

Could this seemingly doomed ENTP-INFJ romance have a future?

No

 

[Anemoia]

(I am actually married with kids - shame on me, I know)

(and of course not the best for my family, which is also a factor in any decision I make).

(I am also keenly aware of the consequences for my family, so this might be entirely hypothetic, but I would still feel better if I had a better understanding of what’s going on)

Are you aware that you only communicate your awareness of your family's interests through parentheses? This seems to flag something concerning here: that your family is parenthetical to you; they are secondary, subordinate to your interests, an afterthought.

For a neutral reader, I think all of this comes across as quite shocking - to be so casual and flippant about inflicting enormous psychological damage upon your children and your wife to pursue an office flirtation. 'This will hurt them, but I'm willing to hurt them to get what I want'.

I'm afraid that this falls way short of the duties of a father and a husband, and though you keep trying to redirect people's responses towards your limerance (as Korg pointed out above), I don't think anyone is going to because you're asking them to ignore something very immoral for the sake of focussing on something else comparatively trivial.


I don't think it's particularly relevant what's going on in the mind of the INFJ, but I will say this - her behaviour seems to indicate that she's also struggling to do the right thing and trying to keep her distance. Don't ignore that signal - the single strongest signal in all of her behaviour - again for the sake of what you want regardless of the needs of others. Don't make it hard for her.

My advice would be: don't destroy the childhood of your children, for whom you are responsible. Don't destroy your wife's life - you say there's nothing wrong in the marriage, so this would be a complete rug pull for her, too. You don't know how she would react or how badly she might take it. Don't make life difficult for the INFJ by ignoring what she's obviously trying to do (stay away from you).

It's difficult to ignore the feelings, and to deal with that, but what is absolutely not difficult, complex, or in balance, is what you ought to do. That is no mystery and does not require any analysis of an INFJ mind whatsoever.

 

[Rit4lin]

I get the impression that you've already made up your mind, OP. If you came here to find people to affirm your thinking, you may have to wait a long while.

You're having an emotional affair. Regardless of what comes of this situation, your wife deserves to know - whether you leave your family or don't. You can't call what you have with this woman a 'romance' then immediately go "Oh but it's not cheating".
Discussing the 'technicalit[ies]' and semantics of what amounts to 'cheating' is pathetic. You knew what you were doing.

Also, type has nothing to do with this. Stop using it as another way of alleviating your culpability. Your apparent blasé attitude to this situation is horrifically telling.

 

[Matty]

I just watched the movie: Up.

The dogs in the movie periodically get distracted by thinking they heard a squirrel. Nevertheless, after a moment of distraction, their focus returns to less exciting, but more important things, and their loyalty never wavers.

Getting distracted by something exciting is just a distraction.

 

[Pthtctmp]

Thanks, I really appreciate every thought you give to my situation.

For anyone that is interested, there are some new developments. First, my wife wants to divorce me (I don't think it is directly connected to this emotional affair I've been having, but indirectly it can be). Second, the INFJ lady confessed she loves me (unpromted), but doesn't want to leave her current boyfriend out of concern for his wellbeing. In your experience or opinion, is this something INFJs could overcome or poetic justice is served on the selfish?