Cruel and Unusual Punishment

[QuickTwist]

I've seen multiple people on X calling for "Cruel and Unusual Punishment," to come back. Frankly, I'm shocked we have to have this conversation.

The problem, that I can see, is that if one "side" allows for that type of thing, then it really just opens the doors to go back and forth for whoever is in power to do this sort of thing to their political enemies...

We already have had enough of that sort of thing throughout history... it doesn't work, obviously.

I just see that our culture continues to get more cruel as time goes on... it is certainly accelerating. That greatly concerns me.

What are people's thoughts on this?

P.s. short post because I'm on my phone cuz my internet isn't working currently.

 

[QuickTwist]

My internet works now, for the time being.

 

[QuickTwist]

Here are two examples of what I am talking about. Both brought up TODAY...

https://twitter.com/x/status/2058633751706407145

https://twitter.com/x/status/2058642126813159653

I don't want to get ahead of myself, but this feels a little like a psyop to me.

 

[QuickTwist]

And, yeah, I actually believe in the death penalty, but I DON'T believe in cruel and unusual punishment...

 

[aeon]

Given that mistakes are made, and it costs more money, on pragmatic principles alone, I am against capital punishment.

That said, rape of ALL kinds, and rape of children...make the punishment long, as in, they carry you out of prison in a pine box.

Of course, I am biased in this way.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[QuickTwist]

Given that mistakes are made, and it costs more money, on pragmatic principles alone, I am against capital punishment.

That said, rape of ALL kinds, and rape of children...make the punishment long, as in, they carry you out of prison in a pine box.

Of course, I am biased in this way.

Cheers,
Ian

We are not going to agree on capital punishment. That's fine. Personally, I think if the evidence is very strong and the crime is especially heinous, I have no problem with it. The sooner the better, too.

 

[aeon]

Does capital punishment violate the commandment to love thy neighbor?

Not trolling, but I am asking to hear your thoughts on this.

Thanks,
Ian

 

[QuickTwist]

Does capital punishment violate the commandment to love thy neighbor?

Not trolling, but I am asking to hear your thoughts on this.

Thanks,
Ian

Matthew 5:17 CSB17
"“Don’t think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to abolish but to fulfill."”

There are different interpretations of this verse, but I don't think there was a thing called "Christianity" where the Apostles expected to start a NEW religion. In other words, all the MORAL LAWS in the Torah are still binding on all Christians, but the other Laws (Judicial and Ceremonial) are not necessary for salvation as per Acts 15.

I think celebrating the feasts for Christians is fine (and preferable in some ways), but not strictly "necessary" to be a Christian. Apostle Paul lays all this out in Galatians.

 

[aeon]

Thank you. I understand that there are two (main) interpretations of the New Covenant concerning actions going forward after accepting Christ as one’s savior, and it can help to explain why certain actions may be accepted, or avoided.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[Asa]

I have a problem with this, too. As you said, allowing a punishment for one allows it for all. Falsely accusing opponents is a time-worn tactic. Many innocent people are in prison.

Until we invent a foolproof truth serum, we will seldom have proof that someone is truly guilty. Now with Ai, even video evidence is questionable.

I do believe rapists (especially of minors) need stronger punishment because they currently serve lenient sentences if they serve time at all, but statements like JD Delay made (which I see often in my feeds on social media and have for years and years, even before the Epstein Files) are dangerous. For example, Emmett Till was falsely accused (of flirting with a white woman) and executed. The Scottsboro Boys were also falsely accused of raping white women. It's still a tactic used against powerful Black men -- often falsely to bring them down. Even in circumstances where the accusations are true, judges are often more lenient on middle-class and upper-middle-class white men. Demanding that rapists be executed would be the easiest way to get away with legal lynch mobs. It makes me shiver. The only way to erase this crime, or at least reduce it, is through education and social change. Changing mindsets. I'm an SA/rape survivor. I've felt angry enough to desire harsh consequences, but never at the expense of other, more marginalized groups that would fall through the loophole.
I'm not pro capital punishment, either, because it's the same thing.

 

[QuickTwist]

The only way to erase this crime, or at least reduce it, is through education and social change.

Don't think that is the "only way."

The question, at root, is why we care about human life at all? If we are just meat robots or just a sophisticated animal, then there's no difference between killing a human and a dog, or whatever other animal you want to talk about.

Most (not all) humans understand there is something very special about being HUMAN. We are not like dogs, chimps, apes, or whatever else. For one reason, look at society... It's WAY more sophisticated than anything in the animal world...

Most humans acknowledge that humans are special in some way. THAT is why protecting human life (and not lobsters) is so important... I mean, we can all be vegans, but then that has problems too, like when we take water from a lake or something, that's literally a fish's home. And there are tons of different examples like that.

I'm all about protecting the innocent, but I don't think we live in this evil, racist society anymore. I don't think our culture is "systematically racist," or that "I can't help but be racist because I am white," (which is what some people believe).

This is not going to "land well" with my audience here, but humans are important because we are made in the image of God. What that means, exactly, IDK. But it means, at the very least, that we have certain characteristics that God has.

I'm an SA/rape survivor.

Very sorry to hear this. You have my sympathies.

 

[Asa]

there's no difference between killing a human and a dog, or whatever other animal you want to talk about.

I do believe that. I understand others do not.

Most (not all) humans understand there is something very special about being HUMAN.

I don't think human life is more "special" than other life. We just think we are because we're human.

As long as humans believe they are superior to others, and use God as an excuse to continue this, they will cause suffering. This goes for feeling superior to other humans as well. -- See what I said above. Misogyny, toxic masculinity, racism, adults believing they are superior to children... all of this causes violence toward other people.

like when we take water from a lake or something, that's literally a fish's home. And there are tons of different examples like that.

Non-vegans don't take water from lakes? What are data centers doing?

This is not going to "land well" with my audience here, but humans are important because we are made in the image of God. What that means, exactly, IDK. But it means, at the very least, that we have certain characteristics that God has.

In most religions that pre-dated and inspired Christianity, the gods (and people) were shape-shifters. Even in the Bible, an angel of the Lord appears as a burning bush. Jesus appears "in another form." There are other instances of shape-shifting as well.

If there is only one God, and always has been only one God, then God is a shape-shifter because people who saw God before Christians existed saw God in other forms.

I'm all about protecting the innocent, but I don't think we live in this evil, racist society anymore. I don't think our culture is "systematically racist," or that "I can't help but be racist because I am white," (which is what some people believe).

How convenient for you.


This all seems provocative. I probably won't reply again. I disdain "debate."

 

[John K]

What are people's thoughts on this?

It seems to me that there are two different issues here: criminal behaviour and individual and social responses to criminal behaviour.

My feeling is that if the latter are themselves criminal, then it’s like a medieval doctor treating a case of anaemia by blood letting.

That begs the question about what is considered to be criminal, and who judges whether there is an infringement. We only have to look at the ideological differences that lead to international conflict to see how hard a question this is. The same ideological conflicts happen within societies too. In the the short term I guess it’s the biggest person in the playground who has the say of it. In the long term things seem to be different, in that there seems to be a Darwinian process operating that means some ideological approaches seem to give a society a greater chance of success than others, even if they are tactically out of favour at any one time.

My personal feeling is that a society that embraces ‘cruel and unusual’ punishments simply makes itself at least as guilty as the ones it deals with that way. It’s a symptom of a greater rotting at the heart and such a society will eventually fail.