Dealing with bullies

rainrise

rainrise

Community Member
MBTI
INFJ
What are strategies you all use for dealing with particularly STJs. (sorry I don’t mean to single out STJs, it’s just the majority of times I have trouble with those who I feel confident are if this type) who seriously believe in social hierarchy and set out to one up you at the get go and actually derive pleasure from putting you down? Though from a higher vantage it’s evident we are all equal at the soul level and this kind of low behaviour is transparent in a way mud is evident in water, we are also dissolved in this social soup where old and young souls, saints and sinners if you will, every kind of stereotypical person type is set alongside each other with no filter …which is earth reality. Call it 3D or whatnot, what I mean is sometimes it doesn’t just feel tiring to encounter these situations but when I’m less guarded and aware often I actually fall into the game of trying to defend myself from their toxicity wherein on better days I can just offer an antidote and be more immune at the get go by seeing through that they see in these stratified terms and I would rather a warmer more forgiving…higher lens.
 
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Sorry to hear you're being bullied, @rainrise. The setting would help us brainstorm better solutions.

First, does the setting allow you to avoid the bullies? If you can, cut bullies out of your life.

Otherwise, it depends on the situation. If someone insults me, I may just say "thank you" or respond in another positive way that shows I'm not bothered by the insult. If you're not quick with comebacks, think of a few now to have ready when the bullies strike. Obviously, some insults shouldn't be responded to with "thank you," but my agenda is to rock them off balance with an unexpected response that shows the insult doesn't bother me, and then move on without engaging in a back-and-forth or escalating the situation.

Some people gain value from hierarchies, and some from territories. You can't change the hierarchy people because they're always going to derive strength from outside sources, but you can focus on your territory -- which means focusing on what you do best.
 
Hi @rainrise

Something that may help with xSTJs is to understand what makes them tick. The way these two types think, they are bound to precision in thinking and decision making in an objective real-world sense. They need closure viscerally, supported by well-reasoned and very much to the point language. We INFJs can be the opposite of this - we tend to generalise and see things from many different angles. We are more interested in opening up and exploring fresh insights than in closing down on one and justifying it and closure isn't high on our agenda. And even worse - we are often more driven by how we come across to others than in the logical validity of what we are saying and the evidence it's based on. We can even appear a bit mystical and ungrounded.

xSFJs are often found in supervisory positions and they can be very intolerant of us. Many of them make no attempt to understand what makes us tick, and simply shut us down - often with very unpleasant put-downs and social game-playing. In fact it's much harder for these types to have some insight into our inner workings than we have of theirs, because they don't easily try out different ways of looking at the world. For most of them, it's inconceivable that there are valid alternative ways of looking at the world.

Now what I'm saying won't necessarily help with genuine bullies, but there are ways we can deal with xSTJs who are abrupt and dismissive with us and the way we think. For instance, if you are dealing with a supervisor or colleague of that sort, it's relatively straight forward to use our thinking ability (tertiary Ti) to translate our ideas into something concrete, well reasoned and closed, in a form that appeals to their perceiving and thinking style. It does take practice, but it's good for us to do this because we often in fact need STJs to work with us to turn our insights into actual concrete results with their passion for objective closure. And when we turn our insights into their language and gain their trust, something fascinating happens, because they then come to appreciate and use us when they need to open things up and gain a big picture view, or explore possibilities. But almost always, we have to make the first move, because a world view based on Ni and Fe are much harder for them to relate to than it is for us to relate their Si and Te world view.

And for us, we can find motivation through our Feeling function, because this way we are relating to them, and at its best it leads to a social relationship that's rewarding to both of us.
 
Sounds like you know what you gotta do.
The difficulty is in maintaining the higher lens.
Try to forgive yourself when you falter there, you aren't going to be in circumstances where being on 100% of the time is even possible.
Give yourself the space to be a potato some of the time, it feels good.
Nobody cares or is analyzing you through a microscope, if you are doing well the majority of the time people will notice that more.
Sometimes people are just having their own problems they need to sort out for themselves.
No amount of you getting better at serving them in some way is going to remedy that.

Bullies are a result of circumstances out of your control generally.
Unless you form a solid respectful relationship with that person to the point where they will absorb your input,
you can only work to protect yourself from their nonsense.
 
Hey Guys thanks for your responses, sorry I'm late replying. I am a piano teacher, and though I rarely wish to resort to smashing out a Chopin ocean etude or the coda of ballade one hehenhem...I don't look as classically bitchesque nor bifsteakesque as the average folk may want to imagine a Baroness with nanny McPhee disagreeability and Ms. Hardbroom and Truncheable strictness/scariness or macho version of Lang Lang. In other words, just because they may expect and equate stuck up snobbishness to be the innate nature and appearance of a classical musician...equate that with competency, here we go again into the rabbit hole of certain types respecting might and being suspicious of kindness. I'm also somewhat a petite Asian female. You get the picture, I also have resorted to saying yes I've more than 25 years of experience playing piano...yes just ask me anything. I find kindness makes many things run smoother and it also prevents heart disease. I don't mind but can be annoyed and slightly hurt by the intentions to laser my aptitude...I get it and am for the most part fine within the pettiness, even snakepit, of all this because I can sympathize with especially guardians who want value for their money in the need to upheaval or r x-ray anyone until they realize they won't eat their children.
 
Hi @rainrise

It's pretty tough providing a specialist service to customers who don't really understand it. I worked in information technology, and we had our share of users who needed us but thought they knew more about it than we did. We had plenty of decent customers too, but the enitiled opinionated ones were hard work.

A couple of ideas for you - for fun only of course (?) .....


 
SJT's are after tangible results. They want to see work completed and want to see work being done. Chatter, questions, explanations, etc are NOT what they're looking for.

If you choose to be around stjs either socially or for employment, you need to accept that taking minimal directions and doing as directed is what is expected. Anything else will be looked at negatively.



As an intuitive thinker (or feeler), there can be a relaxing side to this kind of engagement. You can quietly work, while your imagination and creativity are playing in the background, like your own podcast while doing mindless work. You just have to maintain sufficient attention to the task, so as to not make silly mistakes.
 
I was once in a relationship with an ESTJ. Very much about "the rules." She liked to bark orders and could get angry / irritated if I didn't do what she TOLD me to do in the way that she told me to do it. Needless to say, that can be a difficult relationship but she did have some very good qualities, like John suggested. It was not uncommon for her to take the lead, and she would do the legwork when doing things the way she decided it was going to be done. She was very well organized and and quite compassionate when things were efficient and humming along towards completion. She would also listen to reason and wanted insight that the INFJ could offer - usually until it started to slow down the process of completion. When working on a project, it is very important to define the scope specifically in the beginning, so the planning phases are very important when voicing what needs to be considered. After the planning phase, there needs to be a good reason for correcting course or there will be irritation and frustration. Most of the time I loved it because the synergies were exceptionally high.
 
These demographics are very challenging to deal with at times and made for some difficult experiences in life never mind the depression that has had me wanting to uninstall for years. I don't enjoy the rigidity and how cookie cutter their societies are never mind the toxic jobs that burn people out. I despise that everything has to be done in an instant particularly physical work then there is the social crap that more or less continues high school drama until retirement age or kick the bucket if unlucky enough. Oh well it is their world and for the most part the rest of us are along for the ride. I just wish things were more balanced or there was a way out that still meant living a fulfilling life.
 
Roses In The Vineyard said:
These demographics are very challenging to deal with at times and made for some difficult experiences in life never mind the depression that has had me wanting to uninstall for years. I don't enjoy the rigidity and how cookie cutter their societies are never mind the toxic jobs that burn people out. I despise that everything has to be done in an instant particularly physical work then there is the social crap that more or less continues high school drama until retirement age or kick the bucket if unlucky enough. Oh well it is their world and for the most part the rest of us are along for the ride. I just wish things were more balanced or there was a way out that still meant living a fulfilling life.
Click to expand...
Ainslie MacLeod's young soul world 🌎 kind of is how I interpret this when I'm out of sorts for understanding
 
John K said:
Hi @rainrise

It's pretty tough providing a specialist service to customers who don't really understand it. I worked in information technology, and we had our share of users who needed us but thought they knew more about it than we did. We had plenty of decent customers too, but the enitiled opinionated ones were hard work.

A couple of ideas for you - for fun only of course (?) .....


Click to expand...
Lol yah it's 👻 🎃 tine and the Samhain
 
My STJ bully- Michelle Obama (ESTJ)

------

Get rid of the STJ bully via a visual story board (INFJs are expert visual thinkers, fight the STJs with colorful visual aids that prove or describe your point).
Ex. Stick figures to explain concepts like "functional disorders" of the body.
 
This is such a great thread and I'm happy you opened it, OP. I think its one of the most disheartening moments of coming into adulthood: the fact that we still have to deal with mean bullies even after high school is over. With regards to xSTJ and xSFJ, although I'm still somewhat working out with which exact MBTI type I am, I must admit that I find especially their Si usage to be difficult to withstand, and their Te especially so.

That said, if there's anything INFJs are splendid in wielding, it's their Fe. This can be especially good for dealing with the xSFJs, but with xSTJ, Fe helps in understanding that you may have to just put on a mask temporarily and make them the center of attention. Because that's what they want, at the end of the day. So, just ask them the inane questions: their housing fixtures, the features of their new cars, their thoughts on the infrastructures of whatever projects they've undertaken, current events, that sort of thing. Let them have their 5 to 10 minutes of spotlight and then polite excuse yourself to find people that better understand you.

I also think the one worst thing that the vast majority people fear the most, and this is especially true for sensor types I think, is being seen as social failures of some sort. Get good at giving people dirty or disapproving looks. Ask them "Are you okay? You're being weird." or some variant of it, but be careful if you're dealing with a combative or violent type. Just give them a hint of their own medicine against them. This is something I don't normally condone, unless they started first with being rude to you on purpose, then yeah, go ahead and declare war.
 
moonsea said:
This is such a great thread and I'm happy you opened it, OP. I think its one of the most disheartening moments of coming into adulthood: the fact that we still have to deal with mean bullies even after high school is over. With regards to xSTJ and xSFJ, although I'm still somewhat working out with which exact MBTI type I am, I must admit that I find especially their Si usage to be difficult to withstand, and their Te especially so.

That said, if there's anything INFJs are splendid in wielding, it's their Fe. This can be especially good for dealing with the xSFJs, but with xSTJ, Fe helps in understanding that you may have to just put on a mask temporarily and make them the center of attention. Because that's what they want, at the end of the day. So, just ask them the inane questions: their housing fixtures, the features of their new cars, their thoughts on the infrastructures of whatever projects they've undertaken, current events, that sort of thing. Let them have their 5 to 10 minutes of spotlight and then polite excuse yourself to find people that better understand you.

I also think the one worst thing that the vast majority people fear the most, and this is especially true for sensor types I think, is being seen as social failures of some sort. Get good at giving people dirty or disapproving looks. Ask them "Are you okay? You're being weird." or some variant of it, but be careful if you're dealing with a combative or violent type. Just give them a hint of their own medicine against them. This is something I don't normally condone, unless they started first with being rude to you on purpose, then yeah, go ahead and declare war.
Click to expand...
moonsea said:
This is such a great thread and I'm happy you opened it, OP. I think its one of the most disheartening moments of coming into adulthood: the fact that we still have to deal with mean bullies even after high school is over. With regards to xSTJ and xSFJ, although I'm still somewhat working out with which exact MBTI type I am, I must admit that I find especially their Si usage to be difficult to withstand, and their Te especially so.

That said, if there's anything INFJs are splendid in wielding, it's their Fe. This can be especially good for dealing with the xSFJs, but with xSTJ, Fe helps in understanding that you may have to just put on a mask temporarily and make them the center of attention. Because that's what they want, at the end of the day. So, just ask them the inane questions: their housing fixtures, the features of their new cars, their thoughts on the infrastructures of whatever projects they've undertaken, current events, that sort of thing. Let them have their 5 to 10 minutes of spotlight and then polite excuse yourself to find people that better understand you.

I also think the one worst thing that the vast majority people fear the most, and this is especially true for sensor types I think, is being seen as social failures of some sort. Get good at giving people dirty or disapproving looks. Ask them "Are you okay? You're being weird." or some variant of it, but be careful if you're dealing with a combative or violent type. Just give them a hint of their own medicine against them. This is something I don't normally condone, unless they started first with being rude to you on purpose, then yeah, go ahead and declare war.
Click to expand...
Hey moonsea thanks for the thread like 🙏. Sorry I missed your post.
 
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