Death throes of liberal America.

You have a lot of opinions on Reagan. I do as well. My opinion is in conflict with yours. Perhaps history will tell us what the real story was when it no longer matters.
 
Eventhorizon said:
You have a lot of opinions on Reagan. I do as well. My opinion is in conflict with yours. Perhaps history will tell us what the real story was when it no longer matters.
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There are a lot of facts in there too E.H. but you're right, you don't have to agree with me. I just had to challenge your statement that there was nothing to Iran-Contra. I have an aversion to selling missiles to terrorists and funneling the money to Central American death squads. You can like Reagan if you want but the statement that there is nothing to Iran-Contra had to be challenged. I've said my piece on this subject, I'm done with it now.
 
Reason With Logic Filling said:
There are a lot of facts in there too E.H. but you're right, you don't have to agree with me. I just had to challenge your statement that there was nothing to Iran-Contra. I have an aversion to selling missiles to terrorists and funneling the money to Central American death squads. You can like Reagan if you want but the statement that there is nothing to Iran-Contra had to be challenged. I've said my piece on this subject, I'm done with it now.
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Would you agree with this summary?

"In the Iran-Contra affair, the Reagan administration secretly sold weapons to Iran to effect the release of American hostages held in Lebanon. Money from the Iran weapons-sale then was used to fund the Contras, a group of guerrilla “freedom fighters” opposed to the Marxist government of Nicaragua."
 
Eventhorizon said:
Would you agree with this summary?

"In the Iran-Contra affair, the Reagan administration secretly sold weapons to Iran to effect the release of American hostages held in Lebanon. Money from the Iran weapons-sale then was used to fund the Contras, a group of guerrilla “freedom fighters” opposed to the Marxist government of Nicaragua."
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It's an inherently intricate and complicated cluster-fuck so any summary is incomplete but it is no worse a summary than what I wrote. I had thought the hostages were held in Iran, not Lebanon but the hostages weren't really the focus of the paper that I wrote so I don't know. The one small detail that is irksome with what you wrote about trading arms for hostages is that the weapon sales eventually started taking place in transactions that had nothing to do with hostages, if my memory serves me correctly here. The progression of events in the middle east (starting under Carter) looks something like this:

1st Diplomatic Negotiations for hostages and Intelligence gathering related to Iran/hostages
2nd trading arms for hostages
3rd trading arms for money to send to Contras.
 
Iran-Contra was ok because a Republican president was circumventing laws passed by a Democratic Congress.
 
Stu said:
Iran-Contra was ok because a Republican president was circumventing laws passed by a Democratic Congress.
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No it wasn't ok. But in the grand scheme the action is so small compared to what Democrats have done and gotten away with. It doesn't make it right but it does make.it funny when that's not acknowledged.
Funny that a law had to be passed specifically to keep that from being done. Makes you wonder if someone was benifiting.from keeping that from happening. But like I said, time will tell and none of us alive today will ever know.
 
Eventhorizon said:
No it wasn't ok. But in the grand scheme the action is so small compared to what Democrats have done and gotten away with. It doesn't make it right but it does make.it funny when that's not acknowledged.
Funny that a law had to be passed specifically to keep that from being done. Makes you wonder if someone was benifiting.from keeping that from happening. But like I said, time will tell and none of us alive today will ever know.
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another load of crap
I’m not insensitive to the feelings of many U.S. people mourning president Reagan, but as I pray that god in his infinite mercy and goodness forgive him for having been the butcher of my people, for having been responsible for the deaths of some 50,000 Nicaraguans, we cannot, we should not ever forget the crimes he committed in the name of what he falsely labeled freedom and democracy.
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FATHER MIGUEL D’ESCOTO:http://www.un.org/ga/president/63/
 
Eventhorizon said:
No it wasn't ok. But in the grand scheme the action is so small compared to what Democrats have done and gotten away with. It doesn't make it right but it does make.it funny when that's not acknowledged.
Funny that a law had to be passed specifically to keep that from being done. Makes you wonder if someone was benifiting.from keeping that from happening. But like I said, time will tell and none of us alive today will ever know.
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Whataboutism.
 
Stu said:
another load of crap
FATHER MIGUEL D’ESCOTO:http://www.un.org/ga/president/63/
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I'm sure inoccent people died and that's always unfortunate. But killing off Marxists is simply never a bad thing when words can't dissuade them from their goals.

Load of crap? Hardly. Let's take a hard look at Bengazhi shall we? Something a hundred times worse and no one has gone to jail over.
 
Eventhorizon said:
I'm sure inoccent people died and that's always unfortunate. But killing off Marxists is simply never a bad thing when words can't dissuade them from their goals.
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Marxist children in Nicaragua and non-Marxist people in the middle east died from the missile sales too, don't forget.
 
Reason With Logic Filling said:
Marxist children and non-Marxist people in the middle east died from the missile sales too, don't forget.
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That's war. War sucks. Inoccent people die and there's no avoiding it...unless you avoid war and that will never happen. Humanity will never free itself from it.
 
Eventhorizon said:
That's war. War sucks. Inoccent people die and there's no avoiding it...unless you avoid war and that will never happen. Humanity will never free itself from it.
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I mean... if Reagan had waited a few years until he had the Republican congress ('84 I think?) he could have funded the rebels without selling missiles illegally behind congress's back. Seems like it would have only required patience to avoid it, or maybe you could avoid it by having the slightest idea about what your intelligence community is up to.
 
Eventhorizon said:
I'm sure inoccent people died and that's always unfortunate. But killing off Marxists is simply never a bad thing when words can't dissuade them from their goals.

Load of crap? Hardly. Let's take a hard look at Bengazhi shall we? Something a hundred times worse and no one has gone to jail over.
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what is several hundred times fifty thousand?
 
Reason With Logic Filling said:
I mean... if Reagan had waited a few years until he had the Republican congress ('84 I think?) he could have funded the rebels without selling missiles illegally behind congress's back. Seems like it would have only required patience to avoid it, or maybe you could avoid it by having the slightest idea about what your intelligence community is up to.
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This is an excellent point and I hope you dive into it a bit. Absorb it.
 
Stu said:
what is several hundred times fifty thousand?
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Several hundred could mean 200 or 900. The numbers would be quite different.
 
I think the only death throes we are witnessing here in the USA is that of the conservative movement which has been co-opted by morons led by a money laundering conspiracy pushing sexual deviant.
 
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