Do kids change you?

Ah see, now I understand why gay couples have such a desire to have children even if they can't make them on their own and why gay uncles are so endearing to their nieces and nephews.
 
Questingpoet said:
No one is asking you not to post here Ben. I certainly wasn't.
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Satya stated I cannot possibly know anything about the issue, since I have not personally shot a wad of protein into a woman and waited 9 months to create my own little vagrant mongoloid. His OP was directed specifically at parents, but I initially misread it.

I disagree, but it's his thread and he's free to seek answers from whichever strata he wants, so I didn't want to impose.
I'm only posting again because you directly replied to me.

Questingpoet said:
I think you just need to think about what you post and don't make uninformed, blanket statements about what it's like to raise a kid when you don't have the perspective. People (like me) take it very seriously and when you are dismissive of the experience, as you were, it sits with people wrong. I like to joke as well as the next guy. I just choose my words, and subject, more carefully.
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All parents inherently love to believe that they are superheroes, and that their kids are more adorable and intelligent than anything ever seen.
But, I feel differently... Diametrically so.
If you take offense, I guess that's your prerogative.
 
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BenW said:
I disagree, but it's his thread and he's free to seek answers from whichever strata he wants, so I didn't want to impose.
I'm only posting again because you directly replied to me.
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It's interesting that you would refer to your own child as a "mongoloid". Frankly, I don't think you have much to contribute to this thread except for your attempt at sardonic humor and oversimplification. Child birth and raising children is an incredibly emotional experience for most people. Perhaps you are some rare case that can be so emotionally detached that you could view your own child as nothing more but a byproduct of your loins, but most of the rest of humanity is not so borderline antisocial. I'm more inclined to believe that you are using this thread to seek attention by portraying yourself as a person with an unconventional viewpoint.
 
I do have unconventional viewpoints on the subject, but if I really wanted to go out of my way to showboat them, I'd have just made a thread about it long ago.

I don't really like kids, and I'm not fond of most parents, and I think both are fucked up positions in our culture.
I do admire the relative minority of parents I've met that have both the qualifications and means to raise kids well, in addition to actually enjoying doing so.
...On the other hand, it's a bummer watching kids get dragged through shitty upbringings by their parents, basically dooming many aspects of their life.

Substantial enough for you?
Or too sardonic, still.
 
Billy said:
I don't think he was overtly trying to be funny, but it definitely was funny what he said. And while emotionally having a kid might be a big mystical experience to some, to say its a mystical experience and anyone who disagrees is somehow just as silly as what BenW said. but I think he was trying to be a little silly.
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I wouldn't necessarily call it a mystical experience for myself either. Life-changing, yes. Mystical implies otherwordly to me, and it's definately grounded in this world. I don't think anyone who disagrees is silly either. I just felt that he was bashing something he can't possible have a good handle on yet. An opinion is an opinion, and everyone has a right to one. But some subjects need a little life experience to be able to express a competent viewpoint. I think being a parent is one of those things.
 
Billy said:
The thing I hate about children is their parents haha. No your kid isn't super smart, he fucking eats well at 4 years old because he has inherited data from his genes to know to put something in his mouth, chew it and swallow... christ.
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Nope, sorry, gotta disagree here Billy.

If you feed a child nothing but packaged junk from the time he is born, he will develop a lifelong taste for packaged junk. If you expose children to a variety of real, unprocessed foods from the time they are very small, they will be predisposed to eat better and as a result enjoy (hopefully) better health. Tastes in food are very cultural, and can be highly influenced by parents; it's why Japanese kids like sushi and wasabi, and why too many American kids like white bread and bologna. That's not happening to my kids, thankyouverymuch.

Genes have very little power over the industrial-size box of Skittles you can get at Costco. Have you ever seen a 4-year old with a box of Skittles? The Skittles will take whatever hunter-gatherer genes he's got going and throw them the flying elbow until they are crushed into submission.
:mjedigr:
 
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I just came here to say I think BenW would have beautiful babies, and not wanting to procreate is NOT so unconventional anymore. From what I gathered from the thread it isn't having a child that changes you. It is being responsible for another human being. Imagine if we all actually felt that way about everyone?
 
Does having kids change you.

The short answer is gender specific. For a woman, giving birth to a child changes you psychologically and physically. For a man, the possibilities are more varied. If either a man or a woman also chooses to be a parent, the answer is yes but only to a matter of degree depending on the individual's commitment.

If you are looking to change personality wise, I would recommend joining the Marine Corp over becoming a parent. At least the people you potentially screw up are more likely to be adults.
 
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Apostelytizer said:
If you are looking to change personality wise, I would recommend joining the Marine Corp over becoming a parent. At least the people you potentially screw up are more likely to be adults.
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Yeahhhh, not much of an option for me.
 
Apostelytizer said:
If you are looking to change personality wise, I would recommend joining the Marine Corp over becoming a parent. At least the people you potentially screw up are more likely to be adults.
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El oh el.

And I do agree about the physical and psychological change, and they both start screwing with each other sometimes: "Let's get together and test this woman's SOUL."

The hormones were just too much initially. I was an extreme nutcase about 8 weeks after giving birth, as if I'm not already.

I was having auditory hallucinations. Severe ones. And I had to go on Paxil for a while.

All I kept thinking is "This parenthood shit better be worth all this I'm going through right now."
 
Becoming a Dad made a huge difference in my life. This is my experience no one else s so if your going to criticize me don't bother. That said here goes. Before my daughter was born I did what I pleased to do. I had zero ties to the world. Sure I liked being alive but It did not matter if I was dead. Who would care? My parents would of course. I had a girlfriend previously that had two children and one of them was a month old when I met her. I learned how to change diapers and do all the care taking of a baby. Her other child was two and I took care of her too. The relationship melted down after a year and I left.

Now I thought from that experience that I knew what being a parent is all about. I prolonged the experience as long as I could. Then on Dec 6 1998 I became a Father to my daughter. I was there for the birth. The part leading up to the birth was for me trying. My x made the experience miserable for us both. She refused to take the birthing classes because she said they were stupid. She paid for it trust me. Word of wisdom girls TAKE THE CLASS!! I how ever went to some of the classes alone and I read all the books on it I could. I can remember seeing her head and putting mineral oil on her head to help her come out. I did not know the sex of my child so the birth was going to be a surprise. When I saw her for the first time I cried. I held her and I knew that she was mine. I knew I would never leave her or go away.

At first for a guy its like what do I do with this kid. As she got older and I mean by six months or so we became great playmates and she would be waiting by the door when she would hear my car drive up to the house. The connection I had to my own child was much stronger than the other kids I cared for. I cannot tell you what it feels like to hold your own and know that you created a life. It is a very overwhelming feeling. At least it was for me. I would walk threw fire for my little girl and at times it has felt like I have. Having a kid can make you grow up. For most parents it's on the job training. So you can judge your parents harshly if you like but they were only doing the best they could with what they had learned.

Being a parent is being flawed. It is a journey you take with your kids. Your both learning from each other. The best thing I have done as a parent is admit when I am wrong. My daughter is 11 now and our relationship has changed a bunch. And as your kids get older it has too. I see a lot of parents that are friends to their kids now. I Prefer to be respected and feared. I hate doing it but I see what happens when you set zero limits for kids.

I have a great respect for my parents now. I can relate to the things I put them threw. I find myself apologizing for things I did to them in the past now. Realizing that I was a pain in their ass growing up. Being a parent can make you see the other side of what you thought you knew about being one. It makes you understand all the hard work it takes to get a kid potty trained. And how much it costs to buy all the things a kid needs. Baby's are expensive.

If you think you know and you do not have kids you really don't know. Please don't take offense. But you don't know. You won't know until your holding your own bundle of joy. I think that if you never have a kid you will be different from those that do. And your entire life experience will be vastly different from a person with kids. The single person will never have a family or know what that feels like. He will have zero understanding of what it took to raise him. He will only know is own childish thoughts but not know the thoughts of an adult that had a child. It's a trade off I think. There are lot's of trade offs in life.

I have seen a lot of war movies but I have no idea what it feels like to be shot at. Or see some one I know die in front of me. Life is experience and I think it is a pretty arrogant statement to call someone less of a person just because they did not have children. Some people were born to be doctors and scientists and have little time for child rearing. Stephan Hawking had no children or a fully functioning body and look at all the change he put into the world. As stated earlier I agree that having kids will teach you how to have patience and how to love something more than you ever loved yourself. Some people are just not up to the task. It does not mean they are wrong it just means that they know that they cannot do it. And I can respect a person who knows their limitations.
 
Once again I don't think those feelings are exclusive and only reserved for a kid. You love them and you'll never leave them? You won't let them starve, and you'll give your life so they can live? I fucking feel that way about my cat. What the parents in this thread have said is nothing new to me. It's just very telling about yourselves. You've never felt that way about someone until you had a kid. It is possible for someone else just not for you.
 
Of course you love your kid more than any other person, it is afterall a mini version of half yourself which you can mold into whatever you desire. Well, you can try at least.

I think there are biological factors that make you care more for your off-spring than anyone else.
 
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christmas said:
........... I f#@%ing feel that way about my cat. What the parents in this thread have said is nothing new to me. It's just very telling about yourselves. You've never felt that way about someone until you had a kid. It is possible for someone else just not for you.
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The question posted by the monkey boy is "does having kids change you". I for one do not feel that I am better than my friends who are not parents. I am certainly a different person for having kids.
 
christmas said:
Once again I don't think those feelings are exclusive and only reserved for a kid. You love them and you'll never leave them? You won't let them starve, and you'll give your life so they can live? I fucking feel that way about my cat. What the parents in this thread have said is nothing new to me. It's just very telling about yourselves. You've never felt that way about someone until you had a kid. It is possible for someone else just not for you.
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I never said that they were. Show me where is said that those feeling were exclusively for children? Like I said you won't know how you will feel until they are born. You may just hate kids and were only there to get laid. I see parents like that all the time. I love my dog too. I just place more importance on being a father than a pet owner. And it's pretty telling that you think that I have never loved anything until my child came along. Do you have a child of your own? Do you know what it feels like to create life? How has having a child changed you?

And when I said leave her or never go away I meant that unlike other men today that are there for the screwing and none of the raising I was going to be a father to my child.

I also said this..

I have seen a lot of war movies but I have no idea what it feels like to be shot at. Or see some one I know die in front of me. Life is experience and I think it is a pretty arrogant statement to call someone less of a person just because they did not have children. Some people were born to be doctors and scientists and have little time for child rearing. Stephan Hawking had no children or a fully functioning body and look at all the change he put into the world. As stated earlier I agree that having kids will teach you how to have patience and how to love something more than you ever loved yourself. Some people are just not up to the task. It does not mean they are wrong it just means that they know that they cannot do it. And I can respect a person who knows their limitations.
 
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efromm, do you realize that people who have children can lose them? Do you know what it feels like to lose a child? I'm pretty sure you can imagine.

I never said that you or anyone else in this thread never loved anyone or anything. I did say that if you think it changed you for the better, and I can't know what that love is like without having a child, then you probably have never loved anyone or anything like you love your kid. I think that's sad. I don't think of anyone as less of a person. I just feel sorry for them for not being capable of loving someone the way they love their own flesh and blood. Does it really have to be a requirement? I don't think so.

Yes, children will teach you patience and how to love something as you have never loved before, but I'm saying it shouldn't be that way. You should learn how to do it before you have a kid. I won't think less of anyone who doesn't though.
 
efromm said:
Becoming a Dad made a huge difference in my life. This is my experience no one else s so if your going to criticize me don't bother. That said here goes. Before my daughter was born I did what I pleased to do. I had zero ties to the world. Sure I liked being alive but It did not matter if I was dead. Who would care? My parents would of course. I had a girlfriend previously that had two children and one of them was a month old when I met her. I learned how to change diapers and do all the care taking of a baby. Her other child was two and I took care of her too. The relationship melted down after a year and I left.

Now I thought from that experience that I knew what being a parent is all about. I prolonged the experience as long as I could. Then on Dec 6 1998 I became a Father to my daughter. I was there for the birth. The part leading up to the birth was for me trying. My x made the experience miserable for us both. She refused to take the birthing classes because she said they were stupid. She paid for it trust me. Word of wisdom girls TAKE THE CLASS!! I how ever went to some of the classes alone and I read all the books on it I could. I can remember seeing her head and putting mineral oil on her head to help her come out. I did not know the sex of my child so the birth was going to be a surprise. When I saw her for the first time I cried. I held her and I knew that she was mine. I knew I would never leave her or go away.

At first for a guy its like what do I do with this kid. As she got older and I mean by six months or so we became great playmates and she would be waiting by the door when she would hear my car drive up to the house. The connection I had to my own child was much stronger than the other kids I cared for. I cannot tell you what it feels like to hold your own and know that you created a life. It is a very overwhelming feeling. At least it was for me. I would walk threw fire for my little girl and at times it has felt like I have. Having a kid can make you grow up. For most parents it's on the job training. So you can judge your parents harshly if you like but they were only doing the best they could with what they had learned.

Being a parent is being flawed. It is a journey you take with your kids. Your both learning from each other. The best thing I have done as a parent is admit when I am wrong. My daughter is 11 now and our relationship has changed a bunch. And as your kids get older it has too. I see a lot of parents that are friends to their kids now. I Prefer to be respected and feared. I hate doing it but I see what happens when you set zero limits for kids.

I have a great respect for my parents now. I can relate to the things I put them threw. I find myself apologizing for things I did to them in the past now. Realizing that I was a pain in their ass growing up. Being a parent can make you see the other side of what you thought you knew about being one. It makes you understand all the hard work it takes to get a kid potty trained. And how much it costs to buy all the things a kid needs. Baby's are expensive.

If you think you know and you do not have kids you really don't know. Please don't take offense. But you don't know. You won't know until your holding your own bundle of joy. I think that if you never have a kid you will be different from those that do. And your entire life experience will be vastly different from a person with kids. The single person will never have a family or know what that feels like. He will have zero understanding of what it took to raise him. He will only know is own childish thoughts but not know the thoughts of an adult that had a child. It's a trade off I think. There are lot's of trade offs in life.

I have seen a lot of war movies but I have no idea what it feels like to be shot at. Or see some one I know die in front of me. Life is experience and I think it is a pretty arrogant statement to call someone less of a person just because they did not have children. Some people were born to be doctors and scientists and have little time for child rearing. Stephan Hawking had no children or a fully functioning body and look at all the change he put into the world. As stated earlier I agree that having kids will teach you how to have patience and how to love something more than you ever loved yourself. Some people are just not up to the task. It does not mean they are wrong it just means that they know that they cannot do it. And I can respect a person who knows their limitations.
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^^This is a quote from someone who has been through the fire of parenthood and knows. It sums up how I feel almost perfectly. Thanks for posting this Efromm!
 
christmas said:
.............. I just feel sorry for them for not being capable of loving someone the way they love their own flesh and blood. Does it really have to be a requirement? I don't think so.

Yes, children will teach you patience and how to love something as you have never loved before, but I'm saying it shouldn't be that way. You should learn how to do it before you have a kid. I won't think less of anyone who doesn't though.
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This is not it, When you have are a parent, you take on the responsibility of molding a human child into a human adult. Unconditional love is a prerequisite but that's only the beginning. (sadly many are not capable of this) For many ( usually men) this kind of loving has been suppressed since early childhood. The parenting, mentoring, limit setting, modleing, and most important, the self analysis and deep psychological work to really be an effective parent is something that many parents may not have gone through (and many don't anyway) if they had not had kids.
While it is not necessary to have kids to go through these kinds of positive experiences it is necessary to have some deep and regular human relationships to.
 
christmas said:
efromm, do you realize that people who have children can lose them? Do you know what it feels like to lose a child? I'm pretty sure you can imagine.

I never said that you or anyone else in this thread never loved anyone or anything. I did say that if you think it changed you for the better, and I can't know what that love is like without having a child, then you probably have never loved anyone or anything like you love your kid. I think that's sad. I don't think of anyone as less of a person. I just feel sorry for them for not being capable of loving someone the way they love their own flesh and blood. Does it really have to be a requirement? I don't think so.

Yes, children will teach you patience and how to love something as you have never loved before, but I'm saying it shouldn't be that way. You should learn how to do it before you have a kid. I won't think less of anyone who doesn't though.
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I understand what you're saying.

I certainly do not think I'm better than anyone because I'm a parent. I kind of guessed my love statement would offend, but it's from my perspective, and I am not slighting anyone else's ability to love because all of it is really relative. That being said, I do apologize.

But please understand that I simply do not think I experienced love as I do now with my children. I know it's sad and un-ideal, but it is how it is. And I know a lot of parents like this, and they work really hard to provide their kids with a sense of self-identity and love because of their experiences growing up.

One of my best friends, her mom was/is still a registered nurse, who worked doubles every single day while she was growing up. Her mother may have seen it as self-sacrifice in order to provide for her, but my friend saw it as escapism from parenting. So even though my friend now works 50+ hours a week, she still volunteers at the school, and is very active in helping her daughter pursue her interests.

It really took my kids to snap me out of a self-defeatist, selfish mode. Because I was selfish, and I didn't care about anything other than my emotions and how I perceived people to be treating me. And it's love for them that pulled me out of that negativistic persona.

I'm not sure how else I can explain it.
 
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