Do you believe in Astrology? ?

I don't mind astrology and I don't mind if people like to use it for some perspective or to gain some kind of awareness about themselves and their lives. I think human beings are wired to find patterns in just about anything. It just may be that some people find star tracking and astrology and such to be intuitive and it makes sense to them, not unlike others who do the same with personality theory or basically any facet of Psychology.

I haven't had a full chart read or looked very deeply into my own astrology. I find some some of it difficult only because we have so many calendars and so many different ways to keep and track time globally that a lot of it is just left up to personal interpretation. I am open to hearing about it but it's not something I actively seek out or spend time on.
 
@dogman6126

This website will give you insight on all the planets and what they mean.
http://www.alwaysastrology.com/index.html
Be sure when you click on any planet, there's a section called "interpreting the (insert planet and sign here, ex: Moon, Cancer) sign"
You'll see what I mean. Match up the planets with the signs you got, and you'll get more insight!
 
I've been taught astrology is a tool amongst many other available tools that can offer insight for growth. Choice is always a factor. I also believe science and the arts are also tools amongst many other available tools that can offer insight for growth as well. Do the sciences, astrology, the arts or any other subjects offer definitive and/or all inclusive answers, I don't think so, we are always developing new theories, which lead us to new theories, which lead us to a deeper understanding of any given subject.

Personally, I try not to rule anything out. If something can offer me a means to help me better understand or improve myself or the world I live in - I try to listen. My focus is on personal development and growth as an individual and also development and growth as a human being being part of a species that seems to be in its infancy as far as development.
 
Persona said:
Haha what is it exactly that makes you shocked? Any specific reason?
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it just seems really out of step with me in general.. I always thought I leaned into my Pisces ascendant effortlessly. The Aquarius moon creates this duality -- it feels almost hypocritical

Very freedom-oriented, you must always be able to do what you wish, no matter what. You become
stubborn and recalcitrant when others try to force you into a mold. You are a true democrat -- you
are not a follower, but you enjoy being with those who are like-minded. You appreciate emotional
self-control -- you practice it yourself and you look for it in others. You solve problems, including
emotional ones, with your brains and intellect, not your feelings. Try to be tolerant of those who
have powerful and obvious emotional responses -- not everyone is as objective, cool, dispassionate
and detached as you are.
 
Pleiades said:
it just seems really out of step with me in general.. I always thought I leaned into my Pisces ascendant effortlessly. The Aquarius moon creates this duality -- it feels almost hypocritical

Very freedom-oriented, you must always be able to do what you wish, no matter what. You become
stubborn and recalcitrant when others try to force you into a mold. You are a true democrat -- you
are not a follower, but you enjoy being with those who are like-minded. You appreciate emotional
self-control -- you practice it yourself and you look for it in others. You solve problems, including
emotional ones, with your brains and intellect, not your feelings. Try to be tolerant of those who
have powerful and obvious emotional responses -- not everyone is as objective, cool, dispassionate
and detached as you are.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you'd be an emotionally stable person from that pisces ascendant/ aqua moon haha.
Prime example of how unique each individual can be.
 
Well, just think about how massive the stars and planets are..
Is there any way they dont influence us? I dont think so!
I made it my habit to read the horoscope of the day(this one: http://www.astrosofa.com/horoscopes/daily-horoscope/today) in the evening
and see if the forecast was accurate and I have to say, more often than not it is.
I dont think you should base your life choices upon what you read in a horoscope, but it give you a hint what might be waiting for you in the future :)
 
A blending of much that we--as human beings still no little about. Astrology is to psychology is to archeology is to typology is to philosophy is to any other *ology They can muster.
 
I spent many years studying Astrology, attempting to discern its underlying foundations in order to be assured that what I was presenting to people was accurate and founded on solid facts. ( ...the Ti of my INFJ working overtime :P )
After much study and deliberation, these are the problems I discovered with Astrology in genereal.

First, there are multiple schools of Astrology - Chinese, Vedic and Western currently being the most popular.
Neither of these three can be correlated with the others.

Vedic astrology uses a variation (...of calculation) of the Sidereal, or 'visible', Zodiac - that which one can see looking up at the night sky.
Western astrology, for the greater part, uses the Tropical Zodiac (...which always begins on the Spring Equinox), though some Western astrologers use the Sidereal zodiac.
These two zodiacs currently differ from each other by approximately 24 degrees, based on the 'axial precession of the equinoxes'.
Depending on your birth date, your Sun sign could differ.
As example, a person born on the 4th of August would be a Leo in the Tropical zodiac and a Cancer in the Sidereal zodiac.
All the other planets and major angles (Ascendant / Descendant and MC / IC) move accordingly, as well.
As example, one could be a Gemini rising in the Tropical zodiac and a Taurus rising in the Sidereal zodiac.
Some, or all, of one's Moon and planets could be in different signs in one or the other zodiac.

Both zodiacs are calculated on different starting points which are assumed to be correct by their respective practioners, though there is no supporting evidence that these starting points are relevant or even accurate.
So, which one is correct?

The Western definitions of the seven major planets are based on historical assumptions and beliefs dating back to Babylonian / Assyrian times.
The Vedic definitions, at their foundation, are supposedly older than that.
Zodiac definitions have altered over time depending on cultural biases and differing 'schools' of thought.
The definitions of the three newer planets are given by Western astrologers... but on what basis?
Chinese definitions are founded on yearly icons (Dragon, Pig, etc.) and elements (Fire, Water, etc.) and Lunar months as well as hours of the day - all of which use the same icons and elements as the yearly definitions.
How accurate, and relevant, are all these various and culturally unrelated definitions?

In both Western and Vedic astrology, as well as Chinese astrology, there are various methods of interpretation, as well - which I won't go into.
Which method of interpretation is correct?

There are approximately twenty different house systems in use in Western astrology. All differ from each other by calculation method, calculation starting point, and system of division. One's planets and MC / IC could be in different 'houses' (...or traditionally the start of the 10th house) in accordance with different calculation methods.
So, which one is correct?

The only 'facts' of Astrology I could discern are the measurable positions of the planets in relation to the Earth, the position of the Ascendant / Descendant, and the position of the MC / IC - and nothing else.
So, without any provable accurate foundation or definition in any school of Astrology, how can any resulting astrological aspects illuminating an individual's personality and future be accurate or even relevant?

...and don't get me started on Numerology. :)
 
It's far less arbitrary and more personalised to choose an animal or symbol that you identify with yourself because it means something to you personally or it came to you in a dream, and to use that as a means to understanding yourself. This system is for people who for whatever reason aren't able to find their own powerful symbols to search themselves with.
 
invisible said:
It's far less arbitrary and more personalised to choose an animal or symbol that you identify with yourself because it means something to you personally or it came to you in a dream, and to use that as a means to understanding yourself. This system is for people who for whatever reason aren't able to find their own powerful symbols to search themselves with.
Click to expand...

This is why I find the Tarot more accurate and meaningfull than Astrology or Numerology when speaking with others about what is happening with or in their life.

The Tarot deals with images and symbols (...such as an animal) which speak to the subconscious and unconscious of a person, as well as their dreams, than a fixed arbitrary system such as Astrology or Numerology. I find the mystical aspects of the Tarot speak in stories and scenarios, rather than attempting to define a person with a system and then extrapolate something meaningful for them.
 
SolitaryMystic said:
This is why I find the Tarot more accurate and meaningfull than Astrology or Numerology when speaking with others about what is happening with or in their life.

The Tarot deals with images and symbols (...such as an animal) which speak to the subconscious and unconscious of a person, as well as their dreams, than a fixed arbitrary system such as Astrology or Numerology. I find the mystical aspects of the Tarot speak in stories and scenarios, rather than attempting to define a person with a system and then extrapolate something meaningful for them.
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Well said, totally agree with you.
 
invisible said:
It's far less arbitrary and more personalised to choose an animal or symbol that you identify with yourself because it means something to you personally or it came to you in a dream, and to use that as a means to understanding yourself. This system is for people who for whatever reason aren't able to find their own powerful symbols to search themselves with.
Click to expand...

I gave a bit more thought to this one and I think I'm taking it back. I realise I was making assumptions about how deeply (ie. not-so-deeply) people analyse themselves using this system and it's really none of my business.
 
charlatan said:
things like astrology seem to have an art to them, and cannot be done using formulas about planets. I have no reason to believe that people who made predictions about others did so based solely on the external facts about planets. Perhaps they had a very strong intuition that was somehow inspired by the planets.
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Yes, most readers have an intuitive filter or knowing to guide them through deciphering astrological actions. Astrology is a tool, useful as a guide to outline your current path. If one believes in reincarnation you can figure how many and when you were here before, what you have learned, and what you must learn in this life. Many "tools" such as astrology, water scrying, tea leaves, tarot, magic, runes, numerology, and many others were brought about as a means to make tangible the intangible. A form of "proof"."Knowing" is intangible and often unexplainable to some one who does not experience it.

ImaginaryBloke said:
Learn to ask questions and make your own conclusions.
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Yes, this. :) Find the validity of what is there in the reading. Ask how it fits you personally. A reading can be done for someone and you can bet with a bit of skepticism that someone will do the exact opposite of what is read for them.

ImaginaryBloke said:
Crap astrology. As others have mentioned, papers publish crap astrology. They are there to make money, they have no interest in their readers. Readers are cash cows.
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Truth-This is where I get derailed. I've not understood why a person, if they truly have the gift of foresight, needs to be paid to give their insights. (?) Greed is a mighty powerful tool...Mutch heavier than any deviation one could muster. IMHO...it's folks looking to make a fast $$$buck on anothers niaevites and vulnerabilities.
Many folks who seek out rag sheet horoscopes and charlatans should instead look within themselves...because there lies all they need no know. :)
 
invisible said:
I gave a bit more thought to this one and I think I'm taking it back. I realise I was making assumptions about how deeply (ie. not-so-deeply) people analyse themselves using this system and it's really none of my business.
Click to expand...
Though I understand your reasoning in retracting your statement, you hit on the reason I went so far into the depths and history of Astrology... not only Western, but other cultural methods / systems.

"...people analyse themselves using this system..."

These astrological systems are fundamentally flawed in that the basis for all astrological systems is the assumptions that the planets and major angles, and the inter-relational angles between them, actually possess intrinsic 'meanings'.
They do not.

Humans of various cultures imposed these interpretations on the planets, etc. when these systems were in their infancy and used strictly for divination of the elite in those cultures and for divination of the actions of those cultures, such as the outcomes of war and invasion - not for personal analysis.
Astrological personal analysis is, in the scope of history, a relatively recent use of astrology.
These meanings for planets, etc. do not have any more validity or relevance than when one is 'throwing stones and bones' or reading the cracks in a fire-heated turtle shell.

There is no factual basis for the astrological meanings and definitions of the planets of the solar system, the constellations (...a series of observable stars linked together by arbitrary lines that then relate to a cultural myth), and the asteroids outside of historically cultural antecdotal interpretations that differ from culture to culture, and that differ from within a culture as that particular culture changes.

These systems are fundamentally flawed... and if the system for analysing one's self is flawed, then the resulting analysis will be flawed - thus inaccurate and useless.
Test this yourself by casting your natal chart in the Tropical zodiac and then the Sidereal zodiac and then - determine which one is 'accurate'.

Conversely, the Tarot - when used not for divination, but for personal analysis of a given situation or question - can be highly enlightening and illuminating when interpreted by an intuitive and competent 'reader' who is versed in the mythology and symbolism of the unconscious and the importance of the current narrative to the individual.

Each card possesses a constellation of meanings relevant to the 'real' world. Each card of the Major Arcana has a constellation of meanings relevant to the intrinsic archetypes of the human unconscious. When interpreted in the context of an individual's question, the cards, and the combination of the cards, provide 'springboards' for realizations from the person requesting the 'reading'.

MBTI is also relevant, as it is founded on observable human traits, actions, and interactions. The propensity of an individual for one grouping of traits - such as Introversion over Extraversion - allows a certain measure of classification of traits to be 'assigned' to an individual. These assist the person in 'seeing themselves' in a more objective light, and hence, knowing one's self a bit more.

But I digress...
My point is that - the foundations of Astrology are fundamentally flawed, therefore the resulting interpretations are flawed and inaccurate. As a consequence, the information a person receives is not an accurate interpretation or 'reflection' of who the person is.
 
Sandie33 said:
Truth-This is where I get derailed. I've not understood why a person, if they truly have the gift of foresight, needs to be paid to give their insights. (?)
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The answer would be that - as for any natural ability one has such as the innate ability to dance or sing or to paint (art) or anything else for that matter - one would like to be able to live from these natural ablilities they have rather than, in order to live, doing something else not related to their natural abilities.

Would you ask a natural singer to work as a waitress (...or waiter) and require them to sing and not be paid for their natural ability to sing?
 
SolitaryMystic said:
Though I understand your reasoning in retracting your statement, you hit on the reason I went so far into the depths and history of Astrology... not only Western, but other cultural methods / systems.

"...people analyse themselves using this system..."

These astrological systems are fundamentally flawed in that the basis for all astrological systems is the assumptions that the planets and major angles, and the inter-relational angles between them, actually possess intrinsic 'meanings'.
They do not.

Humans of various cultures imposed these interpretations on the planets, etc. when these systems were in their infancy and used strictly for divination of the elite in those cultures and for divination of the actions of those cultures, such as the outcomes of war and invasion - not for personal analysis.
Astrological personal analysis is, in the scope of history, a relatively recent use of astrology.
These meanings for planets, etc. do not have any more validity or relevance than when one is 'throwing stones and bones' or reading the cracks in a fire-heated turtle shell.

There is no factual basis for the astrological meanings and definitions of the planets of the solar system, the constellations (...a series of observable stars linked together by arbitrary lines that then relate to a cultural myth), and the asteroids outside of historically cultural antecdotal interpretations that differ from culture to culture, and that differ from within a culture as that particular culture changes.

These systems are fundamentally flawed... and if the system for analysing one's self is flawed, then the resulting analysis will be flawed - thus inaccurate and useless.
Test this yourself by casting your natal chart in the Tropical zodiac and then the Sidereal zodiac and then - determine which one is 'accurate'.

Conversely, the Tarot - when used not for divination, but for personal analysis of a given situation or question - can be highly enlightening and illuminating when interpreted by an intuitive and competent 'reader' who is versed in the mythology and symbolism of the unconscious and the importance of the current narrative to the individual.

Each card possesses a constellation of meanings relevant to the 'real' world. Each card of the Major Arcana has a constellation of meanings relevant to the intrinsic archetypes of the human unconscious. When interpreted in the context of an individual's question, the cards, and the combination of the cards, provide 'springboards' for realizations from the person requesting the 'reading'.

MBTI is also relevant, as it is founded on observable human traits, actions, and interactions. The propensity of an individual for one grouping of traits - such as Introversion over Extraversion - allows a certain measure of classification of traits to be 'assigned' to an individual. These assist the person in 'seeing themselves' in a more objective light, and hence, knowing one's self a bit more.

But I digress...
My point is that - the foundations of Astrology are fundamentally flawed, therefore the resulting interpretations are flawed and inaccurate. As a consequence, the information a person receives is not an accurate interpretation or 'reflection' of who the person is.
Click to expand...

I'm with you, I hate everything about astrology. From the assumption that the planets exist in space and they are large so therefore they must be influencing our minds, to the belief that ancient stories that have been told about pictures made out of joining the dots can say something meaningful about our personalities, to the idea that it compares meaningfully to academic disciplines... everything about it drives me wild with irritation. I do on the other hand find Tarot really cool and interesting.

In the past people have told me stuff like "That's because you're [star sign]" and this has made me see red, almost berserk with anger and frustration. I ask people not to apply this system to me and to keep it to themselves. Part of me feels like I should give them the same respect and not try to interfere in whatever it is about astrology that works for them.

I do definitely think your criticisms are important and good though and that people deserve to hear them. It's really good that you bothered to educate yourself properly on these things and that you make the effort to talk about them.
 
invisible said:
I'm with you, I hate everything about astrology. From the assumption that the planets exist in space and they are large so therefore they must be influencing our minds, to the belief that ancient stories that have been told about pictures made out of joining the dots can say something meaningful about our personalities, to the idea that it compares meaningfully to academic disciplines... everything about it drives me wild with irritation. I do on the other hand find Tarot really cool and interesting.
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When I first encountered astrology, I was completely taken by it, but being as (...for me) the path of an INFJ is one of wisdom and truth, I could not take it at face value - I had to uncover its foundations.

I encountered the Tarot much before astrology and numerology, and it is still my 'go to' when a question or situation arises - whether mine or someone else's. I prefer to have the answers come from within rather than from outside.

invisible said:
In the past people have told me stuff like "That's because you're [star sign]" and this has made me see red, almost berserk with anger and frustration. I ask people not to apply this system to me and to keep it to themselves.
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Usually, with people who refer to my Western Tropical Sun sign, I reply that - "actually, I am a Water Dragon" (...Chinese astrology), which throws them right off.

invisible said:
Part of me feels like I should give them the same respect and not try to interfere in whatever it is about astrology that works for them.
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I tend to relate how inaccurate astrology is which, of course, disturbs them and usually results in a heated discussion. But facts are facts and it bothers me more that they have faith in these unreliable and inaccurate systems.

invisible said:
I do definitely think your criticisms are important and good though and that people deserve to hear them. It's really good that you bothered to educate yourself properly on these things and that you make the effort to talk about them.
Click to expand...
Thank you... much appreciated. :)
 
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