Do you ever feel like the people around you aren't alive?

The real question here is: Are you really alive?
How can you prove it, except by using data from your own knowledge bank about what proof of life is?

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I see more and more Millies claiming we're in the Matrix, or other people are NPCs. It sounds like a recipe for mass shootings.
I'm not saying you're going to do this.
 
Asa said:
The real question here is: Are you really alive?
How can you prove it, except by using data from your own knowledge bank about what proof of life is?

---------------

I see more and more Millies claiming we're in the Matrix, or other people are NPCs. It sounds like a recipe for mass shootings.
I'm not saying you're going to do this.
Click to expand...
I agree.
And this is not directed at the thread poster!
Perhaps other people are more conscious in the sense of depth than is assumed by many.
Why I try not to assume too much...especially about the rich inner lives of others.
(Or start to make judgment calls about who is an NPC in an unproven theory)
It's a bit assumtive also to judge the mental prowess of someone based on outward appearance, which can tell you zero about certain people and their mentality.
I have posted a few articles on this subject and the feeling I get from most is an overinflated sense of self-importance and ego masquerading behind the notion of being enlightened somehow...therefore it is assumed by most (mostly themselves) they are smarter, or woke(en) (hate just saying woke), often make claims of not looking down on others but it's often implied in other ways more subtle.
Many certainly don't withhold criticisms of others and why they feel they have mentally or physically or spiritually surpassed them.
Humility seems to no longer apply as they surpassed this as well in their mind...or they simply see no point as those below them aren't as mentaly or spiritually deep and therefore don't matter as much and are regarded as a waste of time.
I find those who generally think this way are also some of the biggest negative/hateful critics of other people...speaking about how horrible this or that person is, when those very critiques only reflect badly on them as petty and negative and unnecessary and make them look hypocritical.
IMHO.
 
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Yes, Skarecrow.
I almost got into the teen/young adult phase of brain development where certain kinds of thinking are newly developed, so people of that age are exploring and dwelling on their new abilities with deep thoughts, and sometimes have the impression others are not as deep because they're not dwelling on the same life stage and/or or topics.

Ultimately, we don't know what goes on inside the brain of any other person unless we make an effort to learn about them. Spend a bit of time talking with random people and it's amazing how many of them have truly interesting stories, careers, and experiences that make us seem like the shallow ones.


Again, as we both stated, this is not directed at the OP, it's just a tangent.
 
Asa said:
Yes, Skarecrow.
I almost got into the teen/young adult phase of brain development where certain kinds of thinking are newly developed, so people of that age are exploring and dwelling on their new abilities with deep thoughts, and sometimes have the impression others are not as deep because they're not dwelling on the same life stage and/or or topics.

Ultimately, we don't know what goes on inside the brain of any other person unless we make an effort to learn about them. Spend a bit of time talking with random people and it's amazing how many of them have truly interesting stories, careers, and experiences that make us seem like the shallow ones.


Again, as we both stated, this is not directed at the OP, it's just a tangent.
Click to expand...
I wholeheartedly concur! Lol
For anyone interested look up "Individuation of the INFJ"... I think that was the title...on the damn iPad so it not as easy to link or paste shit up.
I've known more than a few introverted intuitives who had raging egos while playing the role of - so far beyond your possible understanding that you are a bother to them...explaining themselves is a bother too...not that they aren't super humble people...at least they play it off as such.
Just don't have time for those who are not "real" people like them.
If it sounds harsh it is meant to to make my point. ;)
 
Skarekrow said:
Take care.
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You seem like an interesting dude. I too see value in ego reboot using means atypical to our current society. I should add that the anxiety and depression I am talking about is not situational, it's habitual and it doesn't include people like yourself who fell into a depression from relentless physical pain. I know several people who seem to have incurable conditions(intestinal or autoimmune)and are passed off from doctor to doctor because no one knows whats going on- they all have severe anxiety caused by a critical mother and health issues arose early after the first observance of the criticism. My unscientific hypothesis is that anxiety commonality is the cause of the problem. It's painful to know this and be unable to get them to understand it. I've come to accept them in their current state and listen and share their pain. I volunteer at an assisted living place and the people there have incurable old age and are dying of loneliness- what can one do for them other than to treat them like people and make them smile?

Also, yeah woke is a stupid ass term and I think the people that use it are still stuck in the fear porn phase of awakening.

Skarekrow said:
And this is not directed at the thread poster!
Click to expand...
Asa said:
Again, as we both stated, this is not directed at the OP, it's just a tangent.
Click to expand...

Don't worry, these disclaimers aren't necessary. The purpose of the thread was to stimulate discussion as well as to feel out the community. I did add a disclaimer to the OP today. I don't know how my writing voice comes across but I'm not upset in anyway about anything that has been said said here.
 
latch said:
You seem like an interesting dude. I too see value in ego reboot using means atypical to our current society. I should add that the anxiety and depression I am talking about is not situational, it's habitual and it doesn't include people like yourself who fell into a depression from relentless physical pain. I know several people who seem to have incurable conditions(intestinal or autoimmune)and are passed off from doctor to doctor because no one knows whats going on- they all have severe anxiety caused by a critical mother and health issues arose early after the first observance of the criticism. My unscientific hypothesis is that anxiety commonality is the cause of the problem. It's painful to know this and be unable to get them to understand it. I've come to accept them in their current state and listen and share their pain. I volunteer at an assisted living place and the people there have incurable old age and are dying of loneliness- what can one do for them other than to treat them like people and make them smile?

Also, yeah woke is a stupid ass term and I think the people that use it are still stuck in the fear porn phase of awakening.




Don't worry, these disclaimers aren't necessary. The purpose of the thread was to stimulate discussion as well as to feel out the community. I did add a disclaimer to the OP today. I don't know how my writing voice comes across but I'm not upset in anyway about anything that has been said said here.
Click to expand...

Okay no more disclaimers.
Lol

I was briefly a night supervisor at a place called The Center for Neuro-skills...it was a living rehab facility for brain injured clients.
You want to talk about humans with severe cognitive disabilities...mostly trauma...almost all were normal people once...even a few cops that had been shot in the head.
My point is...in spite of severe cognitive impairment there are still moments of clarity, and a few were obviously quite there mentally but trapped in a malfunctioning or broken body...unable to communicate in some cases.
I know how easy it can be to picture people as not real...have you considered you are not real either and your mental state is your own programming?
I learned some pretty amazing things from those people even though your average person would disregard them as a lost cause.

IMHO I think you might have it all backward my friend.
Anxiety is not the cause but the symptom of the underlying issue in probably the majority of cases.
The issue is life sucks ass...haha.
I like your statement about deciding to end your anxiety.
Coming to the conclusion that enough is enough is a good first step.
But just as it took you years as you stated...many just don't have the tools available to go on such a soul search...be it a lack of time, money, health, obligations, etc.
I was able to do it because I had all the time in the world after becoming disabled.
I feel that we should have more patience and understanding and empathy for those you may look upon in such a way....if anything we have an obligation to help as many people overcome those same issues...I know I had help...not always super consistent...but that is why people with experience like you and I should offer our input to create change...or at least a spark.
Have a good one!
 
Skarekrow said:
IMHO I think you might have it all backward my friend.
Anxiety is not the cause but the symptom of the underlying issue in probably the majority of cases.
The issue is life sucks ass...haha.
I like your statement about deciding to end your anxiety.
Coming to the conclusion that enough is enough is a good first step.
But just as it took you years as you stated...many just don't have the tools available to go on such a soul search...be it a lack of time, money, health, obligations, etc.
I was able to do it because I had all the time in the world after becoming disabled.
I feel that we should have more patience and understanding and empathy for those you may look upon in such a way....if anything we have an obligation to help as many people overcome those same issues...I know I had help...not always super consistent...but that is why people with experience like you and I should offer our input to create change...or at least a spark.
Have a good one!
Click to expand...
Well you maybe right about that. Perhaps anxiety is more the pertuator than the cause. The cause being unresolved trauma that set everything in motion. I always assume I might be wrong as I have been wrong at least four times in my life! This is the reason I tend to not give my opinion or speak ambiguously. My theory of life is ever changing and I take new concepts and shelve them without opinion until I either receive some confirmation or some negation. I then start a leaning in a direction but still don't claim it as truth until I've seen a shitton of confirmation from an assload of unconnected sources.

And don't tell me what kind of 'one' to have. I will have whatever 'one' I deem fitting.

Good day, sir. I said, "Good day!"
 
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latch said:
Well you maybe right about that. Perhaps anxiety is more the pertuator than the cause. The cause being unresolved trauma that set everything in motion. I always assume I might be wrong as I have been wrong at least four times in my life! This is the reason I tend to not give my opinion or speak ambiguously. My theory of life is ever changing and I take new concepts and shelve them without opinion until I either receive some confirmation or some negation. I then start a leaning in a direction but still don't claim it as truth until I've seen a shitton of confirmation from an assload of unconnected sources.

And don't tell me what kind of 'one' to have. I will have whatever 'one' I deem fitting.

Good day, sir. I said, "Good day!"
Click to expand...
I do think you’re an INTP and that could be why there seems to be some confusion in this thread.
 
latch said:
Well you maybe right about that. Perhaps anxiety is more the pertuator than the cause. The cause being unresolved trauma that set everything in motion. I always assume I might be wrong as I have been wrong at least four times in my life! This is the reason I tend to not give my opinion or speak ambiguously. My theory of life is ever changing and I take new concepts and shelve them without opinion until I either confirmation of some negation. I thine start a leaning in a direction but still don't claim it as truth until I've seen a shitton of confirmation from an assload of unconnected sources.

And don't tell me what kind of 'one' to have. I will have whatever 'one' I deem fitting.

Good day, sir. I said, "Good day!"
Click to expand...
That is basically my idea of how shit works and my ever-evolving belief system.
Sounds familiar. ;)
Speaking of root causes.
Interestingly enough they are having great success using MDMA (ecstasy) for treatment of PTSD and cases of childhood abuse when used in a therapeutic setting as it allow the person to face their demons from a place that doesn't cause them to shut down.
In a study of long time married couples using it for those who had fallen out of love with each other...100% fell back in love...it was a nasal spray form...they were directed to use it whenever the other made them angry or upset or resentful...100%.
Many said their love is even deeper and stronger than ever.
Take a Vet with PTSD...he clearly has little control over his subconscious and the demons hiding there.
MDMA has again shown remarkable results when used as a medicine and not just a party drug.
Also, mushrooms...basically allow you direct access to your subconscious and those demons...you have to prepare yourself for what difficult things may emerge...but as they emerge they are also being purged.
Again...studies have shown just amazing results for depression, fear of death in terminal patients, anxiety, PTSD, addictions, smoking cessation, not to mention the increase in connectivity and empathy.
The ability to see one's self with most or all the ego removed or at least highly flexible lol.
To bypass the corrupt pathways in the brain and see perspectives impossible to imagine.
Anyhow...rambling.
This is pretty damn close to how I see things - http://opensciences.org/about/manifesto-for-a-post-materialist-science
 
Happy Phantom said:
I do think you’re an INTP and that could be why there seems to be some confusion in this thread.
Click to expand...
Yeah I know you do. I used to think that too until I looked at the functions. Really, I'm undefiable but within the limits of mbti, I'm an INfj caught in the dreaded Ni-Ti loop that appears to be an INtp. The functions say I'm INfj and the tests say I'm INfj but when I lived with you-know-who I tested as an intp- regardless, I never fit in with them.
 
Skarekrow said:
That is basically my idea of how shit works and my ever-evolving belief system.
Sounds familiar. ;)
Speaking of root causes.
Interestingly enough they are having great success using MDMA (ecstasy) for treatment of PTSD and cases of childhood abuse when used in a therapeutic setting as it allow the person to face their demons from a place that doesn't cause them to shut down.
In a study of long time married couples using it for those who had fallen out of love with each other...100% fell back in love...it was a nasal spray form...they were directed to use it whenever the other made them angry or upset or resentful...100%.
Many said their love is even deeper and stronger than ever.
Take a Vet with PTSD...he clearly has little control over his subconscious and the demons hiding there.
MDMA has again shown remarkable results when used as a medicine and not just a party drug.
Also, mushrooms...basically allow you direct access to your subconscious and those demons...you have to prepare yourself for what difficult things may emerge...but as they emerge they are also being purged.
Again...studies have shown just amazing results for depression, fear of death in terminal patients, anxiety, PTSD, addictions, smoking cessation, not to mention the increase in connectivity and empathy.
The ability to see one's self with most or all the ego removed or at least highly flexible lol.
To bypass the corrupt pathways in the brain and see perspectives impossible to imagine.
Anyhow...rambling.
This is pretty damn close to how I see things - http://opensciences.org/about/manifesto-for-a-post-materialist-science
Click to expand...
All of that looks good to me. I have a Christian background but have listened to a million Alan Watts lectures recently and they seem to fit together with my faith as it was but they have exanded what a narrow view.

Have a look at this CIA document: https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00788R001700210016-5.pdf
Evidently, they take mind over matter seriously for it to be right on their website.

In looking back on the life, I see that I have recieved in my relationships everything I thought I deserved at the time and I have a comical amount of 'coincidences' happen to me all the time.
Recently I rewatched the movie Excaliber and I thought it was profound. It said the secret of the Grail was that Arthur and the land were one. When he was healthy and strong so was the land etc likewise his father Uthur was a fighter and there was no peace and the land suffered.
I thought it was interesting that if you take away the vowels, Arther, Uther, and Earther are pretty much the same word. They are all the earth and in fact their bodies are made of earth. As are all of ours. I've taken to grounding as in standing barefoot on dirt or grass and it is pleasant and several other healthy practices.

I've never tried the shrooms but have concidered getting some off ebay. I got some Hawian Baby Woodrose from there with good results. The other night I dreamed I 'borrowed' some shroom from a chic who was giving a class on them and pased them around for the peeps to view.

Incidently, I too was miraculously saved though I took steps to not be found during my suicide attempt. I was within a half hour of dying.
 
Asa said:
Yes, Skarecrow.
I almost got into the teen/young adult phase of brain development where certain kinds of thinking are newly developed, so people of that age are exploring and dwelling on their new abilities with deep thoughts, and sometimes have the impression others are not as deep because they're not dwelling on the same life stage and/or or topics.

Ultimately, we don't know what goes on inside the brain of any other person unless we make an effort to learn about them. Spend a bit of time talking with random people and it's amazing how many of them have truly interesting stories, careers, and experiences that make us seem like the shallow ones.


Again, as we both stated, this is not directed at the OP, it's just a tangent.
Click to expand...

I think you are making an assumption that people who believe this kind of thing are not drawing on a lifetime of experience dealing with people... Of course a generalization is being made from a relatively small sampling... But I'll say one things ad targeting has affected an entire generation...
 
I am glad you're still here @latch

I think most or at least a lot of people experience some level of depersonalization in their lifetime. It's important to navigate those feelings in a safe way.
It's very easy to go down the rabbit hole philosophically, especially while in that sort of mindframe.
There's a shitload going on below the surface of everything, and when it comes down to it a lot of things are just unknown and unknowable.
But we continue to discover new things all the time as well. Slowly lifting humanity to new territories.
When you throw all that stuff aside for a minute, humans are if nothing else, highly interesting and capable of love.
What's important then, is figuring out what you are going to do yourself to contribute to this human experience thing in a positive way.
You're not alone in navigating this stuff. It's hard for everyone. Some people just shut it off because it's too much. Fuckin' zombies ;)

I've been meditating for almost 30 years now, so I'm pretty familiar with the Gateway Experience. This pdf you shared is comforting to read, as it outlines a lot of things in very simple terms.
 
Happy Phantom said:
Get help.
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If help was so easy to be had then why have the suicide rates gone up 50% in some US states and why is care so expensive.... I know what it is like for people who actually fucking need help only to get Nothing or for it all to sit behind a pay wall, the only help common people are finding these days is drugs and entertainment.
 
Roses In The Vineyard said:
If help was so easy to be had then why have the suicide rates gone up 50% in some US states and why is care so expensive.... I know what it is like for people who actually fucking need help only to get Nothing or for it all to sit behind a pay wall, the only help common people are finding these days is drugs and entertainment.
Click to expand...
I agree.

Maybe he can lick you.
 
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