Do you intimidate or "play" people, or use power dynamics techniques?

[barbad0s]

Honestly I don't think my abilities are that strong lol, even though ENFJs are supposed to be supa manipulative and evil if they try. I can't do much with other people unless I know that other people have certain feeling potential that they want to let out, or I feel very strongly about something, but it's not really sadistic or anything that wouldn't be obvious to anyone in the situation. For instance, if some people are thinking they want to go to one particular restaurant but aren't saying anything, I'll mention it or coerce them into admitting what they want. Or one time, I pushed a landlady into evicting me early before my year long contract had ended, but we already didn't get along and she herself was very manipulative, so she willfully expediated my plans.

Or I can sort of flirt with people by messing with their heads but that's not really intimidation.

Or at work for a while I would put on a resting bitchface so customers wouldn't ask for too much.

These things are all very superficial though and mostly to do with moment-to-moment visceral reactions.

Edit: Come to think of it, I do do things like this in minor ways to make people like me and agree with me, and it requires conscious effort to turn it off. I see what people value, and I don't want to cause trouble. But it pays to try to stop and think about it sometimes, because it has given me real problems when it comes to forming important friendships and finding my identity and things like that.

 

[54tjsioU]

I'll just say honestly this. I met INFJs who are not little angels at all. There are INFJs, honestly, that can and will destroy your life if you're not carefull with them. That's why I don't agree that a certain MBTI or Socionics type can be inherently better or worse. It depends on the individual.

Are you sure they're INFJ's though? I'm not saying that there aren't horrible people out there that are also INFJ's, I understand that my generalization sounded that way but I also understand that the INFJ MBTI is rare, right? And even people will come onto this forum claiming that they are an INFJ. People claim shit all the time, especially manipulative people. Did they actually do the test and were they truthful about it?

The only reason why I say what I do about INFJ's is because it's what I understand from the description, my personal life compared to it, and now also the personalities of some of the people on this forum. That being said I will say that everyone claiming to be an INFJ here, that's not always true, and I don't believe there are many that would disagree with me there.

People who will go about bent on destroying others lives, I've met them, I've had to deal with them for a big chunk of my life. They would do everything I would do if I were bent on killing someones will to live, and if I had no heart, no sympathy, and was an all around psychopath. Now those people exist, and more often than not.

There was a post going around a while back on Facebook about a woman that posted a note on the fridge at work -or at least that's what it looked like- stating that her coworkers were eating her brownies and she was tired of no one telling her who was eating them, so she laced them with pot and called HR claiming there was a drug use problem. That is a prime example of crazy to me, "You ate my brownies so now I'm going to get you fired and possibly take your lively-hood away from you!" But it got 200 thousand 'like's. There were a few who commented, "That's fucking crazy! How can you people not understand how psychotic that is?!" myself included, but there were only 3 thousand comments and not all of them pointed out the psychosis, a lot of them were cheering her on. It was interesting to say the least. How many of those people agree? How many of them have lost their sympathy and empathy and have no sense of a punishment fitting the crime? How many of those people are psychopaths vs how many just simply dream of getting revenge? It was interesting, disgusting and at the end very saddening.

I don't believe all INFJ's are great people, I believe that what I've stated is what the description says and that I personally am the description even when I really wish I weren't. It's not that I'm a great person that doesn't hurt people with my words or actions, I know I do. I just don't don't do it the way that you're stating with manipulation and playing games. I am physically and mentally unable to.

 

[Hard]

Interesting... How do you feel/think when other people play this on you?

Edit:
Re-reading this I realised it may come as offensive, but is really a honest question

I either don't notice it, or I work to sidestep it. The only time it really gets to me is if it's done for malicious intent. In that case I pull out the big guns.

 

[invisible]

What you're saying is that you are outside the system? Enneagram 5's are ussually outside the system.

i dont really think im out of the system, although that idea appeals to me.

what is manipulation and power play exactly? is it basically lying to people in order to get them to do what you want?

i dont think that would be something that the most effective leader would do, since people can usually figure it out when they have been controlled with lies. but then again, at least in terms of workplaces, its not like most people can afford to just leave their jobs whenever they think theyve been lied to or treated in some way unfairly, so maybe it doesnt matter that much since they still have to find a way to get along with their leader. maybe people feel a lot of pressure to cohere in social groups, even outside the workplace and can forgive a lot of manipulation if they believe its good for the group. maybe genuine leaders have a lot more knowledge than other people, and so they manipulate in order to bypass time consuming negotiations that will be pointless anyway?

 

[invisible]

Are you sure they're INFJ's though? I'm not saying that there aren't horrible people out there that are also INFJ's, I understand that my generalization sounded that way but I also understand that the INFJ MBTI is rare, right? And even people will come onto this forum claiming that they are an INFJ. People claim shit all the time, especially manipulative people. Did they actually do the test and were they truthful about it?

The only reason why I say what I do about INFJ's is because it's what I understand from the description, my personal life compared to it, and now also the personalities of some of the people on this forum. That being said I will say that everyone claiming to be an INFJ here, that's not always true, and I don't believe there are many that would disagree with me there.

People who will go about bent on destroying others lives, I've met them, I've had to deal with them for a big chunk of my life. They would do everything I would do if I were bent on killing someones will to live, and if I had no heart, no sympathy, and was an all around psychopath. Now those people exist, and more often than not.

There was a post going around a while back on Facebook about a woman that posted a note on the fridge at work -or at least that's what it looked like- stating that her coworkers were eating her brownies and she was tired of no one telling her who was eating them, so she laced them with pot and called HR claiming there was a drug use problem. That is a prime example of crazy to me, "You ate my brownies so now I'm going to get you fired and possibly take your lively-hood away from you!" But it got 200 thousand 'like's. There were a few who commented, "That's fucking crazy! How can you people not understand how psychotic that is?!" myself included, but there were only 3 thousand comments and not all of them pointed out the psychosis, a lot of them were cheering her on. It was interesting to say the least. How many of those people agree? How many of them have lost their sympathy and empathy and have no sense of a punishment fitting the crime? How many of those people are psychopaths vs how many just simply dream of getting revenge? It was interesting, disgusting and at the end very saddening.

I don't believe all INFJ's are great people, I believe that what I've stated is what the description says and that I personally am the description even when I really wish I weren't. It's not that I'm a great person that doesn't hurt people with my words or actions, I know I do. I just don't don't do it the way that you're stating with manipulation and playing games. I am physically and mentally unable to.

but i think like all other types INFJs become emotional, and emotions are not rational. i think that when overwhelmed with emotion, INFJs can behave as irrationally and selfishly as anyone else. the emotion doesnt even have to come from some situation in which they have been treated especially badly, it just depends on their life experience and what they are familiar with. i dont think that understanding our own emotions to the point of rising above them is something that happens naturally, i think its something that requires work. or maybe thats just the case for me... but i dont think it means that im not INFJ!

 

[54tjsioU]

but i think like all other types INFJs become emotional, and emotions are not rational. i think that when overwhelmed with emotion, INFJs can behave as irrationally and selfishly as anyone else. the emotion doesnt even have to come from some situation in which they have been treated especially badly, it just depends on their life experience and what they are familiar with. i dont think that understanding our own emotions to the point of rising above them is something that happens naturally, i think its something that requires work. or maybe thats just the case for me... but i dont think it means that im not INFJ!

I know that when I get emotional or overwhelmed my truth of the situation comes out in the worse possible way. The kind of people I hang around need a lot of work. I'm attracted to it for whatever reason, not so much as they are my project as I know the solution to their problems and figuring out the best way to tell them without being overbearing and somehow being right in their comfort zone while also telling them the truth is intriguing, borderline fascinating even. That being said all of those people usually end up annoying the shit out of me and by that time I'm emotional, I’m unfiltered, so that tactful truth is just completely thrown out the window. That is when I say what I know in the form of a rant and know for a fact that it is hurtful as they always tell me thereafter but then something else happens which I can't explain, they come back. They're not thankful that I said it, at least not in the way that I said it, but for whatever reason they want to change and now they want my help. But by that time I have had enough, and my saying the things I’ve said out loud in every case I realize just how horrible they’ve decided to be in their everyday lives and I just want to get the hell away from them. For whatever reason, after I’ve said such harsh things, they want me to stay and help them change. A few having said those exact words. And I don’t, I leave, I can’t handle it. And then something else happens -they change themselves.

I don’t know where this was going but when I get emotional I still don’t go to manipulation, I really just lose control of my tongue. But for whatever reason that always seems to work in every case so long as you disregard that I’m no longer in the person’s life, which in all truth is better for my own emotional stability.

 

[invisible]

yeah... i dunno... too much work, too exhausting. and i became much less certain that i knew what was right for people. ive got so many flaws myself.

 

[LucyJr]

Are you sure they're INFJ's though? I'm not saying that there aren't horrible people out there that are also INFJ's, I understand that my generalization sounded that way but I also understand that the INFJ MBTI is rare, right? And even people will come onto this forum claiming that they are an INFJ. People claim shit all the time, especially manipulative people. Did they actually do the test and were they truthful about it?

The only reason why I say what I do about INFJ's is because it's what I understand from the description, my personal life compared to it, and now also the personalities of some of the people on this forum. That being said I will say that everyone claiming to be an INFJ here, that's not always true, and I don't believe there are many that would disagree with me there.

People who will go about bent on destroying others lives, I've met them, I've had to deal with them for a big chunk of my life. They would do everything I would do if I were bent on killing someones will to live, and if I had no heart, no sympathy, and was an all around psychopath. Now those people exist, and more often than not.

There was a post going around a while back on Facebook about a woman that posted a note on the fridge at work -or at least that's what it looked like- stating that her coworkers were eating her brownies and she was tired of no one telling her who was eating them, so she laced them with pot and called HR claiming there was a drug use problem. That is a prime example of crazy to me, "You ate my brownies so now I'm going to get you fired and possibly take your lively-hood away from you!" But it got 200 thousand 'like's. There were a few who commented, "That's fucking crazy! How can you people not understand how psychotic that is?!" myself included, but there were only 3 thousand comments and not all of them pointed out the psychosis, a lot of them were cheering her on. It was interesting to say the least. How many of those people agree? How many of them have lost their sympathy and empathy and have no sense of a punishment fitting the crime? How many of those people are psychopaths vs how many just simply dream of getting revenge? It was interesting, disgusting and at the end very saddening.

I don't believe all INFJ's are great people, I believe that what I've stated is what the description says and that I personally am the description even when I really wish I weren't. It's not that I'm a great person that doesn't hurt people with my words or actions, I know I do. I just don't don't do it the way that you're stating with manipulation and playing games. I am physically and mentally unable to.

I understand. Most of the INFJs are good people, because we are naturally inclined to listen to our conscience very much.
But trust me, I've met INFJs who are very manipulative. One of them was a guy from my high school. He was very confident, apparently tha's rare for INFJs, and very smart also, like most of INFJs. He would make a impression of a very solid, deep and strong guy. He was big even in the physical sense, and most of the teachers were afraid of him, because he would threat them and so on. He was a dominator and a bully most of the time.
And this idea that INFJs can "go wrong" is very true in the very known fact that most of the INFJs are very "subjective" sort of speak, are rather firstly "protectors" than "moral" person, or "idealistic" rather than "conventional". So it depends of what gets into one INFJ own head. If he gets what I would call sane ideas and values, he would stick with that and be a decent person. If he would come in contact with some crazy ideas and philosophies, you never know....

 

[Solongo]

Just curious how these kind of things go along with INFJs.
We are usually described as "not competitive". Does that mean we are clean on manipulation tactics?
I know people who are very carefull at those kind of things, they use a lot of intimidation and manipulation tactics when they meet with people, to leave a certain kind of impression. Its a ongoing struggle for supremacy, wether would be smartness, social position, power and so on.
So, how about us?

I naturally intimidate others. I was not aware of this until people started to tell me about it. I think its something you just have or you don't. Like charm and charisma; some people just seems to possess it more than others. I've learned to accept it and how strong I can come across; but once people know me personally they are completely understanding. Im not sure if manipulation comes into play with it. Manipulation always feels similar to premeditation; like there must be a lot of planning and internal thoughts going on.

INFJs are not immune to manipulation tactics. INFJs will most likely think long and hard about it before using it; so it's a personal choice I would say.

 

[LucyJr]

I naturally intimidate others. I was not aware of this until people started to tell me about it. I think its something you just have or you don't. Like charm and charisma; some people just seems to possess it more than others. I've learned to accept it and how strong I can come across; but once people know me personally they are completely understanding. Im not sure if manipulation comes into play with it. Manipulation always feels similar to premeditation; like there must be a lot of planning and internal thoughts going on.

INFJs are not immune to manipulation tactics. INFJs will most likely think long and hard about it before using it; so it's a personal choice I would say.

Yep, I'm kind of the same. People said to me that I appear a very intense and solid guy. But than also many people told me that I can be shy, especially with many people (althought I like to think I'm just reserved), so its really funny.
Do you know the actor Russell Crowe? Until today, nobody that I asked thinks he's a INFJ, yet to me he's INFJ all the way. He's of course, a very intimidating guy, because of his intensity, and most of the guys I asked, believe he must be a ENTJ or ESTJ, or INTJ. And I always laugh when I heard that hahah What do you think about him?

 

[Solongo]

Yep, I'm kind of the same. People said to me that I appear a very intense and solid guy. But than also many people told me that I can be shy, especially with many people (althought I like to think I'm just reserved), so its really funny.
Do you know the actor Russell Crowe? Until today, nobody that I asked thinks he's a INFJ, yet to me he's INFJ all the way. He's of course, a very intimidating guy, because of his intensity, and most of the guys I asked, believe he must be a ENTJ or ESTJ, or INTJ. And I always laugh when I heard that hahah What do you think about him?

I swear I thought you were a girl-lol- the LucyJr name I guess

I used to feel bad about the intimidation factor when I was younger because it got in the way of me relating to people in a social situation. But just like parts of us that we cannot get rid of; as I got older it became more clear that I can learn to harness my power of intimidation. Harnessing as in learning to accept it and carry it with dignity instead of feeling uncomfortable about something I cannot change. It was quite a trip but I think it will come more handy as I grow older and older.

Very interesting that Russel Crowe is a potential INFJ - i kind of deem him to be INTJ - always struck me as a cerebral type of actor. But he is known for his intense dark moods according to people that worked with him and can be difficult so that could be an INFJ indication. I wonder how fame and celebrity hood affects personality types. I wonder if the excess of things like fame and money help or hinder personality development as we grow older.

 

[LucyJr]

I swear I thought you were a girl-lol- the LucyJr name I guess

Man, I have to change that usename.

I used to feel bad about the intimidation factor when I was younger because it got in the way of me relating to people in a social situation. But just like parts of us that we cannot get rid of; as I got older it became more clear that I can learn to harness my power of intimidation. Harnessing as in learning to accept it and carry it with dignity instead of feeling uncomfortable about something I cannot change. It was quite a trip but I think it will come more handy as I grow older and older.

Agree. Anyway to me, its not intimidation at all, because I don't try to do it conscionsly at all. Its just the way I am.

Very interesting that Russel Crowe is a potential INFJ - i kind of deem him to be INTJ - always struck me as a cerebral type of actor. But he is known for his intense dark moods according to people that worked with him and can be difficult so that could be an INFJ indication.

If you watch some of his interviews when he was younger, you would see alot of emotions in his eyes. Also, his facial expression are very lively, and that's not INTJ. He's also a very social (almost efforthless) and funny person ( when he is in a good mood). He's a INFJ and in Enneagram a 5x4. Very intense and cerebral, but also very romantic and a feeler.

I wonder how fame and celebrity hood affects personality types. I wonder if the excess of things like fame and money help or hinder personality development as we grow older.

I don't think Russell is affected by star-doom or celebrity. In fact he is known to not play the game of Hollywood, and he tries to be separate by them. He's just a very quick tempered and moody man, that's all. And also a very good actor

 

[Solongo]

Agree. Anyway to me, its not intimidation at all, because I don't try to do it conscionsly at all. Its just the way I am.

That's exactly it! For a while I tried to analyze and separate what was "causing" or making me come across as "intimidating". Then I just gave up and started to see it as a positive trait but you are right; it also functions unconsciously for me. I suspect it is a combination of everything; including your physical appearance, body language, how you carry yourself, your facial expressions and your mode of speaking, etc.

I also think that the intimidation factor is a sign of a leader. I read an interesting INFJ post from a very mature INFJ individual and it spoke about developing leadership functioning in INFJs as we grow older. The functioning seems to become clearer in the later stage of life but the choice is definitely presented to the INFJ and it is up to the individual to develop that aspect. I will post the link if I can find the same article.

Russel Crowe is definitely one of my favorite actors. I can watch Gladiator and listen to it's soundtrack over and over. It's just Epic.

 

[Vict]

Fool me once, etc.

 

[the]

Apparently not using power yet in the same time using it is a contradiction. Could you explain this, perhaps with a example?

Gaining a reputation as someone who is harmless, a do-gooder, giving, etc. ---anything that shows oneself in the light of not wishing to possess power over another --- is positioning themselves (whether intentional or unintentional) into a situation where they might have an advantage.

 

[LucyJr]

Gaining a reputation as someone who is harmless, a do-gooder, giving, etc. ---anything that shows oneself in the light of not wishing to possess power over another --- is positioning themselves (whether intentional or unintentional) into a situation where they might have an advantage.

Do you think than that both kinds of power are evil, or just the first one? Which one should one prefer, or its all relative?

 

[the]

Do you think than that both kinds of power are evil, or just the first one? Which one should one prefer, or its all relative?

I dont believe in evil and good in this kind of philosophical situation. Good is "what I like" and evil is "what I dont like". I guess it's all relative, but from another perspective: any power you use that positively affects me is good, and any that negatively affects me is evil.

This perspective can be drastically changed if you approach it from a religious way which makes whatever god likes to be good and then vice versa, or even what I think god likes and so on.

Is manipulating people good or bad? I dont know that we can really meaningfully interact with anyone without manipulating them. Saying Please and thank you is a means of manipulation, so is forcing children to say P&T before giving them their food reward. Just like training a dog.

 

[LucyJr]

I dont believe in evil and good in this kind of philosophical situation. Good is "what I like" and evil is "what I dont like". I guess it's all relative, but from another perspective: any power you use that positively affects me is good, and any that negatively affects me is evil.

This perspective can be drastically changed if you approach it from a religious way which makes whatever god likes to be good and then vice versa, or even what I think god likes and so on.

Is manipulating people good or bad? I dont know that we can really meaningfully interact with anyone without manipulating them. Saying Please and thank you is a means of manipulation, so is forcing children to say P&T before giving them their food reward. Just like training a dog.

Saying please and thank you is a means of manipulation...how is that so?

 

[tfg345i4u5lw]

I use power-with in my relationships with others. Power-with meaning I never try to "one-up" or intimidate people. I like to believe that I just think on a larger scale. I realize that by working together with the people around me I can be more successful.

When I meet people who use the power-over strategy as a means to an end, I usually just look down at them and label them as low-class. That power-over approach stems from a perceived scarcity or the belief that others are in some way a threat to your survival. The reality is that other people are there to assist and help you in life, not bring you down.

So in conclusion, I'm a power-with guy and I prefer to keep only other power-with types in my circle.

 

[the]

Saying please and thank you is a means of manipulation...how is that so?

its a degree of begging. People are even programmed to want to give if someone says please.