Do you intimidate or "play" people, or use power dynamics techniques?

[LucyJr]

its a degree of begging. People are even programmed to want to give if someone says please.

Sorry for answering now, I was just so busy

On what you said, I disagree. How could you prove that saying please is a degree of begging? Also, how can you prove and from where do you know that people are programmed to want to give if someone says please?

 

[LucyJr]

[MENTION=884]solongotgon[/MENTION]
Here is a interview with Russell Crowe. He's a INFJ in a nutshell;
[video=youtube;P6r5ikuSve8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6r5ikuSve8[/video]
Check these pics. How could you describe the look in his eyes? Reflective, contemplative, thoughtful.


In my opinion, the beauty of the movie Gladiator is not in the fiery intensity of the hero, Maximus, but especially in his contemplative aura. The hero is a person of some depth, not just a guy ready to kill some barbarians.

 

[the]

Sorry for answering now, I was just so busy

On what you said, I disagree. How could you prove that saying please is a degree of begging? Also, how can you prove and from where do you know that people are programmed to want to give if someone says please?

I'm not here to prove anything. How do you prove soft science?

 

[LucyJr]

I'm not here to prove anything. How do you prove soft science?

Soft science and hard science or science can be "proved" philosphically.
This is what I asked for using the word "prove". To give some arguments, to argumentate your position

 

[jupiterswoon]

Just curious how these kind of things go along with INFJs.
We are usually described as "not competitive". Does that mean we are clean on manipulation tactics?
I know people who are very carefull at those kind of things, they use a lot of intimidation and manipulation tactics when they meet with people, to leave a certain kind of impression. Its a ongoing struggle for supremacy, wether would be smartness, social position, power and so on.
So, how about us?

I think that a more developed INFJ can wield manipulation effectively. We are so painfully aware of social cues and maneuvering that it seems that it can't be helped on some level, but a more developed INFJ would recognize that it can have a tactical advantage and use it accordingly. I have had people, namely ESTPs & ESTJs in the work place try to pull psychological maneuvers on me to mess with my sense of self, or to give an air of superiority where there is none as some kind of way to power.

The first part of recognizing manipulation tactics is to be aware that other people use these kinds of ploys or power plays all the time. By being aware that other people will use these tactics I create a defense mechanism that ensures the safety of my personal/emotional well being. By being able to root out people who are more inclined towards this behavior, I am setting up the chess board. I become aware of their games before they even start, I suspend disbelief out of courtesy and do not act on any of my intuitions, but treat them neutrally. With friends, I will shrug off this tendency in their personality and chalk it up to being a part of their character and therefore don't take it personally- that why they don't really have any control over me and don't effect my energy levels. I am not necessarily excusing this sort of behavior in them, but I am not giving it power either. It's important not to read into other people's intentions too much, because then it gives them power, reading into it too much can be the tendency of a more unbalanced INFJ.

The second part of manipulation tactics is that when assaulted by a tactic that is meant to throw one off-balance, say someone is putting you down, or participating in nefarious social climbing, then one can use manipulation as a tool.

For example, I have an incredibly pushy and narcissistic ESTP coworker that thinks he is above me simply because he is older than me and he is a male. He often would try to coerce me into covering shifts for him on very short notice, and I had had enough. So what I did was call while he was working, and ask to speak to the manager. I then complained about his behavior in front of him with the manager. Afterwards, he has been afraid of me and thinks that I am trying to fire him at any cost. He has brought donuts to work, he has tried complimenting me. He will stoop to any sort of ass-kissing because of his fear for me. This has been highly beneficial to me, because he no longer tries to assert any authority over me whatsoever. So yeah, I found his weak spot, and dug a little knife in there. His weak spot is not being liked by others. By making open my dislike of him, I effectively took the situation into my hands.

The important thing for an INFJ is the moralistic aspect. In the past I would have blamed myself for feeling bad or not being assertive. I think INFJs tend to be afraid of being assertive or manipulative, but one has to look at the facts objectively. Was my coworker negatively effecting me intentionally? Yes. Could I have chosen to just be assertive with him? Yes. But, if I had just told him to stop, he would have kept doing it- because he is that kind of person. By digging in with my little knife, I hurt him just enough to know that he needs to take me seriously.

The question is: Is entering a fight using the same tools as another really considered manipulative? Or is it just fighting fair?

I have a moral high ground, but in situations like this, I don't need to pretend I feel guilty for something I don't feel guilty about, and I would barely deign to calling it "manipulative".

 

[Neurosis]

Ugh, I hate it when I say, 'no' to someone and they think that saying, 'pleeeaase?' will make me change my mind.

I also despise people who try to speak for me or tell me what I want.

I'm usually either too direct or too oblivious to play or manipulate people. I also have to say that I think NJ types seem to often see too far into things, to the point that they're seeing what isn't there. ENFJ's and INTJ's (I'm not sure why these two types, just happens that way) I've met have done it the most - they read further into my intentions than is necessary.

 

[sprinkles]

No. Why should I need to.

I think playing and intimidation pragmatically implies that you need a specific thing from a specific individual. Like when you intimidate or such, you want some specific thing from that target specifically.

I don't see the point of that unless they're somehow really valuable to you, or you feel stuck with finding a way to make them adequate for whatever.

There's very little that I want that I can't get elsewhere, and there's very few that I'd want anything from that aren't replaceable. So I have no reason to intimidate or manipulate. If a part don't fit my scheme, get a new one I say.

 

[Tin Man]

No. I'm a good liar and am quick in discovering a person's soft spots, but I dislike manipulation and intimidation. I will also have nothing to do with those who think these are acceptable tactics to use in personal relationships.

I've been head of a team a few times and if I think they're not pulling their weight I'll do their work myself rather than manipulating them into doing it. Which is probably more offensive as I'm basically telling them that they're worthless... I can be such an asshole.

 

[technics]

I know people who are very carefull at those kind of things, they use a lot of intimidation and manipulation tactics when they meet with people, to leave a certain kind of impression.

This sort of thing is only done among the lower classes. If you do this among the upper classes, you're first frowned upon for displaying such vulgarity and second you're out of their circles. I certainly will kick you out of my network if you can't hit the right tone.

 

[muir]

We are all manipulators

We are all co-creating this reality moment by moment. We all manipulate objects, ourselves and other people....everything is a form of manipulation...by typing this i am manipulating my computers keyboard

What matters is what a persons INTENT is

 

[LucyJr]

This sort of thing is only done among the lower classes. If you do this among the upper classes, you're first frowned upon for displaying such vulgarity and second you're out of their circles. I certainly will kick you out of my network if you can't hit the right tone.

No, I strongly diasagree. In upper classes, manipulation is much more powerful and much more SUBTLE. You need to be much more smart and clever in upper classes to survive there. Its a fine and subtle strategy, much more dangerous because in appearence is "innocence", while in reality is pure evilness. In upper classes, people are much more proud than simple people, much more in need of power. The war there is of a higher and subtle nature. No, they are not vulgar. They are full of smiles, but you need to open your eyes to see what is behind those beautiful smiles they always have on their faces.

And I say this because I worked for very influential people, sometimes in their own houses.

So when I said this

I know people who are very carefull at those kind of things, they use a lot of intimidation and manipulation tactics when they meet with people, to leave a certain kind of impression.

This is much more of a phenomen in the upper classes. Simple people are not that smart (apparently). They are not professionals ( upper classes), they are just amators.

 

[bagelriffic]

I think intimidation is based in fear, we try to scare others to relieve our own fear but it doesn't work because we aren't afraid of that person but the internal state their presence evokes in us, which appears to intensify if it isn't reciprocated or reacted to.

I think manipulation is kind of the same thing though i think its more about hanging on to something than rejecting it and I am sure I do manipulate more often than I'd care to admit. I just try to be curious and open towards it when I see myself doing it. What outcome am I trying to achieve by doing this?

 

[LucyJr]

I think intimidation is based in fear, we try to scare others to relieve our own fear but it doesn't work because we aren't afraid of that person but the internal state their presence evokes in us, which appears to intensify if it isn't reciprocated or reacted to.

I think manipulation is kind of the same thing though i think its more about hanging on to something than rejecting it and I am sure I do manipulate more often than I'd care to admit. I just try to be curious and open towards it when I see myself doing it. What outcome am I trying to achieve by doing this?

Wow, the most interesting and best answer I heard so far. Yes, I agree with the element of fear in manipulation and intimidation. Thanks for the answer, sire

 

[LucyJr]

Thinking at manipulation, I think when is really effective it can be something hipnotic and para-transcendental.