Dorothy you are not in Kansas any more.

efromm said:
Look into Bill gates. He wants to reduce the population through vaccines. It’s not hard to find the interview of him saying that. Look into his vaccine work in Africa. Bill is not a good guy.
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It is hard. Where?
All I've seen so far from my very quick look into this, is how he helped provide vaccines to those within the meningitis belt, or provide bags to keep out insects from eating family's crops and allowing them to grow. As for population, his comments surround the wider concern on how the rising population of Africa will counteract international efforts to help reduce poverty within the continent, providing ready healthcare, stimulating growth e.t.c. Not to mention how this also ties in to the fears and debates over overpopulation and resource consumption, especially in plastics and fossil fuels.
Of course, there's the separate issue of countries which also extract money and profit from Africa and leave the economy worse-off, but that's another issue.

However, you seem to be very confident in the assertion you've made, so I imagine you've done extensive research on this to come to such a conclusion. I'd love to see it laid out. I'll even give a Admin-permission-ticket to just post the links of your research, as long as they aren't to opinion articles or blogs. We can stick to the forum for such expressions.
 
Rit4lin said:
It is hard. Where?
All I've seen so far from my very quick look into this, is how he helped provide vaccines to those within the meningitis belt, or provide bags to keep out insects from eating family's crops and allowing them to grow. As for population, his comments surround the wider concern on how the rising population of Africa will counteract international efforts to help reduce poverty within the continent, providing ready healthcare, stimulating growth e.t.c. Not to mention how this also ties in to the fears and debates over overpopulation and resource consumption, especially in plastics and fossil fuels.
Of course, there's the separate issue of countries which also extract money and profit from Africa and leave the economy worse-off, but that's another issue.

However, you seem to be very confident in the assertion you've made, so I imagine you've done extensive research on this to come to such a conclusion. I'd love to see it laid out. I'll even give a Admin-permission-ticket to just post the links of your research, as long as they aren't to opinion articles or blogs. We can stick to the forum for such expressions.
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Right, I'd like to see the entire interview this quote was taken from.
 
acd said:
Right, I'd like to see the entire interview this quote was taken from.
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Sure thing. Again, it was very limited because I'm just waiting for the evidence behind @efromm's claim. These were the first results after looking 'Bill Gates and africa' up
Talks of the amazing progresses made in childhood deaths, children within education, reducing poverty e.t.c. in recent decades. However due to the forecasts of the African population doubling, fears are that poverty will actually increase without increased investments. Talks of 'moderating population growth' to 2050 by focusing on education, allowing women the reproductive healthcare they want, raising agricultural productivity. Mentions how these investments and citizens having access in turn lowers population growth rate (this video is where he explains this in a two-minute video).
If investments aren't made into the 'youth bulge' of Africa (the video shows a pie chart depicting 60% of Africa's population being under 25, in comparison with 27% in Europe) then they 'won't have the development and economic opportunity that they deserve', which could make them 'become a liability'.
This is the video in which I found where he talks of the vaccines for those in the meningitis belt (up until 1:22, where he focuses on the 'HIV epidemic'), and providing the bags to families for a protein-rich crop called 'cow beans' which are grown a lot in Africa (3:27 timestamp).
Talks about the issue of how the portion of babies in Africa will go from '22% today to about 50% by the end of the century'. Other countries such as China, India, Brazil, Indonesia will be able to support 'almost all of their own needs' as a result of their own development, so international aid can/should be focused into Africa and a few other countries due to the success of Asia and Latin America. Again focuses on how parents with access to better healthcare and access to contraceptives will reduce the number of children adults have 'as an insurance policy'.

All I could find article-wise were those which argued some of the stances taken up by the B&M Gates Foundation in regards to agricultural methods, and fact-checking numerous conspiracy claims.
 
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acd said:
Mandate isn't forced. Many states in the US are Right to Work or At Will, where you can quit OR be fired for no reason. There are jobs out there that don't require a vaccine. And the court stopped the vaccine mandate for all large employers. Different places have their own policies and rules. Many hospitals mandated it before us government mandated it. I'm speaking from US, not other places that are fining people and banning them from public. Not sure I disagree with banning unvaccinated from restaurants and entertainment venues though. I don't think people should be fined for it. You can choose to get vaccinated and participate in society or stay home.

The US is about to begin forcing women to carry unwanted pregnancies. Let's not pretend body autonomy and freedom are actually a thing here anymore. I would not force or fine or arrest anyone but there are consequences. I think in certain career fields, medical, law enforcement, where you are closely working with the public it should be a mandated part of your job. Like the many other requirements you are asked to meet. I think if busineswants to ban unvaccinated or require masks they should be able to do so.
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So am I understanding this right that you're against locking people in their homes until they agree to get vaccinated but in favor of the corporate world discriminating based on an employee or potential employee's medical history?
 
Reason said:
So am I understanding this right that you're against locking people in their homes until they agree to get vaccinated but in favor of the corporate world discriminating based on an employee or potential employee's medical history?
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No one is locking anyone up. I'm thinking from a US perspective though. That's not happening here. Unvaccinated people aren't on lockdown here.

I don't know where you're getting the second part from. I never said anything about health history. But I said healthcare professionals and first responders should be required to be vaccinated. Just like they already are for a variety of other diseases.
 
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I did find him sort of saying the exact opposite though
 
Reason said:
It is mandatory for everyone in Austria and Germany. In addition there are many vaccine mandates for non medical professions in the US.

Fortunately for many a lot of organizations and corporations had to drop their mandates after the majority of the workforce threatened to walk out.

If you had your druthers would you mandate that people be forced to vax against their will or face fines and other punishments? Does this extend to other types of medical procedures as well?
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@Reason - your concern really hits home with occurrences like this one. The poor 13 year old girl did now want the shot, but she simply wanted to play soccer for her school.


Powerful voice by a Canadian mother.

Her daughter’s 13-year-old friend who did not want to take the COVID-19 vaccine.

“Her Heart Stopped. She is in Critical Care.

This is happening here right now in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Because she wanted to play soccer.

There are Children Dying All Over the World.

“I am disgusted with our government. She did not want to take the Vaccine.

But when our Premier mandated the vaccine for children playing sport. …. “

Also a video of the mother of the girl's friend.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/video...-and-now-she-is-in-critical-condition/5763060
 
3 new deaths were reported on December 2. The North Dakota Department of Health says it no longer publicly provides COVID-19 death information by sex, age, and location.
In November, 117 people died as a result of COVID-19, the sixth-highest month for fatalities since COVID-19 tracking officially began in March 2020.
Hospitalizations
163 people are currently hospitalized due to COVID-19 as of December 3, down 14 from December 2.
Breakthrough Infections and Hospitalizations
As of December 3, the total number of North Dakotans with up-to-date vaccinations stands at 370,090. A total of 14,330 people who were fully vaccinated have later tested positive for COVID-19. These are known as “breakthrough cases.”A total of 568 people who were fully vaccinated and later tested positive for COVID-19 have been hospitalized. These are called “breakthrough hospitalizations.”More on this data can be found directly on the NDDoH website by clicking here. https://www.kxnet.com/coronavirus/3-deaths-452-new-cases-of-covid-19-in-nd-active-cases-statewide-are-3378/
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so in ND 4% of the vaccinated later got covid and 4% of the breakthrough cases have required hospitalizations
 
acd said:
No one is locking anyone up. I'm thinking from a US perspective though. That's not happening here. Unvaccinated people aren't on lockdown here.

I don't know where you're getting the second part from. I never said anything about health history. But I said healthcare professionals and first responders should be required to be vaccinated. Just like they already are for a variety of other diseases.
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You mentioned restaurants and other entities that deal with the public needing to have vaccinated workers too, hence the question of whether hiring and firing all public facing workers based on their medical history (vaccination status) is okay by you.

You can just talk about the US in your answers if you want to but I'm personally becoming more and more jaded about government control every day I read the headlines coming out of these countries where people are having their lives destroyed by lockdowns and extrajudicial unilateral imprisonment of citizens.
 
Rit4lin said:
It is hard. Where?
All I've seen so far from my very quick look into this, is how he helped provide vaccines to those within the meningitis belt, or provide bags to keep out insects from eating family's crops and allowing them to grow. As for population, his comments surround the wider concern on how the rising population of Africa will counteract international efforts to help reduce poverty within the continent, providing ready healthcare, stimulating growth e.t.c. Not to mention how this also ties in to the fears and debates over overpopulation and resource consumption, especially in plastics and fossil fuels.
Of course, there's the separate issue of countries which also extract money and profit from Africa and leave the economy worse-off, but that's another issue.

However, you seem to be very confident in the assertion you've made, so I imagine you've done extensive research on this to come to such a conclusion. I'd love to see it laid out. I'll even give a Admin-permission-ticket to just post the links of your research, as long as they aren't to opinion articles or blogs. We can stick to the forum for such expressions.
Click to expand...
Please list the sources you will accept as factual sources. If I find evidence who will believe it? Does the media tell the truth about people? Do they have bias issues? Does bill gates pay for articles to be published about him that makes him appear to be good. Where does one find factual information. When there is so much bullshit out there? I didn’t know this forum had a fact section? I thought it was all opinion. If that’s not the case I need to delete my account asap. Because anything I have to say is opinion. But if my opinions are really just lies. Then people should not be allowed to have them at all. They should not be allowed to think for themselves. It’s too dangerous to let humans do that. Almost every conversation is opinions.
 
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efromm said:
Please list the sources you will accept as factual sources. If I find evidence who will believe it? Does the media tell the truth about people? Do they have bias issues? Does bill gates pay for articles to be published about him that makes him appear to be good. Where does one find factual information. When there is so much bullshit out there? I didn’t know this forum had a fact section? I thought it was all opinion. If that’s not the case I need to delete my account asap. Because anything I have to say is opinion. But if my opinions are really just lies. Then people should not be allowed to have them at all. They should not be allowed to think for themselves. It’s too dangerous to let humans do that. Almost every conversation is opinions.
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You talked of 'the interview', said to 'look up his vaccine work in Africa', that he 'wants to reduce the population' and is 'not a good guy'.
So, could you please provide me a link to the interview? And the evidence behind all of the other assertions you made? Or will you just admit it was an opinion of yours you've formed from reading similar opinions (the comments of the YouTube videos I provided for acd are full of them, for example), without there being anything substantive to reinforce it?
I don't have an issue with people having their opinions and beliefs. Have at it. It's a human right. My issue is when people make assertions as if they were a universal truth and fail to mention it is just their own belief, and that there's no rational or empirical evidence for it.
I'm an open-minded guy. To me evidence is evidence. Someone sharing their opinion, even if there are hundreds or thousands sharing that same opinion, does not make it fact - unless it is a collection of experts commenting on their field of expertise, in which case the shared view becomes more substantive and noteworthy. Hence my one and only stipulation being that links provided aren't to blog websites or opinion articles.

I don't particularly give a damn for conspiratorial theorising. As for the rest, I do not really know what else to say as it's all a tangent and has nothing to do with my request.
 
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Rit4lin said:
You talked of 'the interview', said to 'look up his vaccine work in Africa', that he 'wants to reduce the population' and is 'not a good guy'.
So, could you please provide me a link to the interview? And the evidence behind all of the other assertions you made? Or will you just admit it was an opinion of yours you've formed from reading similar opinions (the comments of the YouTube videos I provided for acd are full of them, for example), without there being anything substantive to reinforce it?
I don't have an issue with people having their opinions and beliefs. Have at it. It's a human right. My issue is when people make assertions as if they were a universal truth and fail to mention it is just their own belief, and that there's no rational or empirical evidence for it.
I'm an open-minded guy. To me evidence is evidence. Someone sharing their opinion, even if there are hundreds or thousands sharing that same opinion, does not make it fact - unless it is a collection of experts commenting on their field of expertise, in which case the shared view becomes more substantive and noteworthy. Hence my one and only stipulation being that links provided aren't to blog websites or opinion articles.

I don't particularly give a damn for conspiratorial theorising. As for the rest, I do not really know what else to say as it's all a tangent and has nothing to do with my request.
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It’s not a human right to have an opinion. That is an opinion. You realize this. And so now whose opinions will we believe? The experts cannot agree. And the so called facts end up changing. As opinions change. So you want a group of experts in their field to decide. But who decided who the experts are? And who makes sure the experts are qualified? Others experts who qualified those experts and so on. So depending which experts you get that will be the narrative you will find. So in the end I would have to find experts who you agree with. That also agree with your facts. That are also backed up by experts in their field that can certify that they are indeed certified experts.

Let’s do some wondering. Do vaccinations have side effects? Do vaccinations cause harm? Has Bill Gates always been honest in his business dealings. Can Bill Gates be trusted? Why did Bill Gates get a divorce? And when did Bill Gates get his medical license to practice medicine. Are Bill Gates words facts or opinions? Can you trust a billionaire? I’ve found negative articles about bill in the la times. But you would call them opinion pieces.

So in all fairness it’s my opinion that Bill gates is the God of our time. Everything he says is fact and true. He has never hurt even one child with his vaccinations or his plans for the planet. His intentions are always pure even if you do not understand him. He is obviously WAY more honest and intelligent than any human on the planet. His buying up of the lands of the earth is prudent and reasonable when you consider what would happen to that land if it were allowed to be owned by the peasant population. It is obvious just by looking at him that you know that you would be safe to trust a man like Bill Gates. All of his business dealings are transparent. Any and all detractors are proven liars and charlatans. Bill Gates for God. I want Bill Gates to be my King. To be my God. All hail Bill Gates. Everything he does is pure perfection. Zero mistakes Gates we call him. I just cannot say enough about him. Really I don’t deserve to live on the same planet as he does. My mere existence puts a stain on the genius that is Bill Gates.
 
Rit4lin said:
unless it is a collection of experts commenting on their field of expertise, in which case the shared view becomes more substantive and noteworthy. Hence my one and only stipulation being that links provided aren't to blog websites or opinion articles.
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I actually think the least likely source of truth are from "collections of experts."

Too often, they are more akin to a party line.

I'd go with blog websites or opinion articles.
 
Lol you get everything but a straight answer here.
@o2b Don't even know what to say to that. I'd hate to devote years of my life studying only for a layman to say it was all for nothing.
@efromm You didn't answer my question or provide anything. Just tangent after tangent. Also, having and being able to express an opinion is a human right, whether you go by the European Human Rights or US Constitution. Of course there are numerous other conventions and legislation for other continents or countries, but I've not read them either partly or in full.
I think we're done here.
 
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You won’t accept my proof because I can only find opinions. And you do not accept those opinions. You said I couldn’t post opinions here. Should I post them on my profile page? Bill Gates is not a good guy ask his x wife.
https://www.wired.com/story/opinion-the-world-loses-under-bill-gates-vaccine-colonialism/


https://newsrescue.com/follow-the-m...to-be-jabbed-despite-high-risk-benefit-ratio/

https://www.mintpressnews.com/docum...as-given-319-million-to-media-outlets/278943/

https://dailyexpose.uk/2021/08/20/i...evealed-he-is-the-primary-funder-of-the-mhra/

Just a few things I have read. There is plenty more out there about Bill. It’s not my job to prove anything to you. It’s your job to find out for your self and make up your own mind. I think that’s called your opinion. And you know where you can shove it I’m sure.
 
Rit4lin said:
Lol you get everything but a straight answer here.
@o2b Don't even know what to say to that. I'd hate to devote years of my life studying only for a layman to say it was all for nothing.
@efromm You didn't answer my question or provide anything. Just tangent after tangent. Also, having and being able to express an opinion is a human right, whether you go by the European Human Rights or US Constitution. Of course there are numerous other conventions and legislation for other continents or countries, but I've not read them either partly or in full.
I think we're done here.
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What are your exact qualifications? What is your education level. Will you share your actual first and last name here for all to see. Or do you hide behind your screen name?
I don’t hide behind my screen name. My name is Erick Fromm. I live In hayden Idaho 48 west Hans way. 83835. Now post your home address and who you are so we can all know you. And we can verify that you are in fact an actual person. Because if you are even remotely interested in truth you would be truthful and open as to who you actually are. Why hide behind a screen name? Be yourself.

My son has brain cancer. And the professional doctors told me and my wife that he did not have brain cancer. They sent us home. It was their professional opinion that we were full of shit. We took him to the same hospital three times. And all three times they sent us home. If I would have listened to their professional opinions my son would be dead. I didn’t. I listened to my intuition. Which is the first thing an infj would do. When we got him to another hospital we had to yet again convince the professionals to do an mri scan of his brain. You know what they found? A fucking tumor. Just as big as day sitting in his 4th ventricle. These are experts. Professionals. They have more time researching diseases. And yet a father and mother knew what was wrong before they did. And I have zero medical training.
My intuition is pretty spot on. I have 49 years of practice.
 
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@efromm
My qualifications, level of education and personal information has nothing to do with this. All I did was ask you to explain a position you assertively took, and somehow you've taken it as a personal affront and appear to have a vendetta against me - at least, you appear to be hostile. I won't be 'shov[ing]' my opinion anywhere.
This sort of attitude over a mere request of mine is unnecessary and undeserving. As such, whilst I'm sorry to hear about your son and offer my deepest sympathies, I'm not going to engage with you any further with this sort of behaviour being displayed.

At the very least, thank you for the articles - they provide a new perspective of sorts, even if they do not cover everything in my prior request.
 
For those not trusting of doctors and experts on this topic. Join the COVID support group on Facebook just to see what people are really going through with covid. So many stories of vaccinated members surviving covid while their unvaccinated family members, in many cases spouses, do not. Just read a post from a woman whose whole family caught covid when she was pregnant. She was vaccinated and her husband was not. Sadly he passed after spending weeks on a vent. She delivered her baby early, but otherwise healthy. It's really become a pandemic of the unvaccinated.
 
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