[PUG] DRUG TEST all college students, unemployment beneficiaries, public school children!!!

UBERROGO said:
Compelling. Typical William.
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Well its already been said that you don't have an operational definition of the words you're using... you have a menial understanding of what welfare is based on a very very narrow cultural view of it. Almost right out of Rush Limbaughs notebook. Welfare is people gettin Mah tax moneis!
 
Poetic Justice said:
I agree in principal but what would happen if they found someone was one drugs?

Are they planning to stop their welfare or force them into rehab?

I'm not 100% on this but I kinda think if it's the latter this may end up being a good thing. If it's the former..... disaster
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Giving people in need money is the easiest - and, oddly, the cheapest way to assist improve their welfare.

However, for people with serious drug addiction, money would seem to be counterproductive in improving their welfare. I suspect that drug addict students would receive counselling/rehab options/etc. For people on unemployment welfare it might involve rehab and non-monetary living assistance.

This is mostly what seems to happen in most countries. I know welfare systems and how they are dispensed is often criticized, but it is worth noting that most of these systems are structured according to the recommendations of experts who genuinely want to assist people.

The main problem seems to be that welfare strategies are misinterpreted by resentful taxpayers into being about work/remuneration injustice - but in most cases (not all cases) welfare genuinely seems to make it possible for people who want to get better, to do so.
 
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Billy said:
Well its already been said that you don't have an operational definition of the words you're using... you have a menial understanding of what welfare is based on a very very narrow cultural view of it. Almost right out of Rush Limbaughs notebook. Welfare is people gettin Mah tax moneis!
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Yeah, its been said by the same person who thinks being in the military is welfare. You're a sore loser as always. lulz
 
Flavus Aquila said:
Giving people in need money is the easiest - and, oddly, the cheapest way to assist improve their welfare.

However, for people with serious drug addiction, money would seem to be counterproductive in improving their welfare. I suspect that drug addict students would receive counselling/rehab options/etc. For people on unemployment welfare it might involve rehab and non-monetary living assistance.

This is mostly what seems to happen in most countries. I know welfare systems and how they are dispensed is often criticized, but it is worth noting that most of these systems are structured according to the recommendations of experts who genuinely want to assist people.

The main problem seems to be that welfare strategies are misinterpreted by resentful taxpayers into being about work/remuneration injustice - but in most cases (not all cases) welfare genuinely seems principally with making it possible for people who want to get better, to do so.
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Well said.

People seem to think it is about being "mean" or "uncaring" but it is a complex social issue with multiple factors involved.

On a simple level, if we gave our children anything and everything they wanted and never taught them any boundaries, any rules and any type of discipline, then they would not grow to become healthy, well-adjusted individuals.

I know from personal experience the affects of drugs in a persons life and to enable someone is not showing them love but helping them to kill themselves or destroy their lives sooner.

Ok, I think we have probably exhausted this. It is more complex, in my opinion, than just, "give them whatever they want, whenever they want it".

If that is the case, I will retire tomorrow and live off the public dole, I would feel no shame if people wanted to hand their money to me...as a matter of fact, if anyone wants to support me now....: - )
 
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is there anything to be done?

we are being herded into big brother territory and no amount of voting is able to stop it

political games and public policy are hopeless endeavors as far as i can tell

on the surface it seems the whole system needs to be overhauled
but it could actually be designed to fail in order to establish some new order as far as we know

i just see the whole thing being rigged
it doesn't even make sense to get worked up over these little issues

system is corrupt through and through
corruption is the deeper issue
 
Shit, billy, you could say politicians are on welfare. The president is on welfare!
Politicians get enormous salaries (from taxes) and the best healthcare money can buy (again, from taxes)...They draw quite generous pensions, from taxes...
Why do they deserve the luxury they are afforded?


Why does anyone go after the poor when our leaders are the real leeches on society?
This idea of drug testing those on assistance is nothing but a grand diversion, don't fall for it.

If people are so pissed off that people are getting paid to do NOTHING--go after the politicians--who are doing NOTHING to better anything but their own interests..

Doesn't it irritate the bejeebus out of anyone else to listen to these right-wing Republicans bitch about "entitlements" and cutting benefits and assistance--Without batting an eye in regards to the absurd amount of wealth they suck out of people??? The fact that every check they draw and health benefit they receive is coming out of OUR paychecks?? Sure, go ahead and cut social security for senior citizens--but continue to draw your benefits and salary, Paul Ryan..
Mitt Romney can talk "inelegantly" about what scrubs 47% of the population are for not paying income taxes and needing assistance, meanwhile, he's hiding a fortune offshore to avoid paying taxes on one cent of it.

A drug test isn't going to fix things.
We are a service industry nation. That means most workers get paid shit to work--barely enough to make it--even for a full-time position.
The value of a college degree means nothing. It doesn't even guarantee a middle-class lifestyle anymore. Millions and millions are going into debt and they will never see a pay off. They will never be able to pay their debt in full.
It is getting harder and harder for people to make a decent living.
We have bigger problems than a fraction of the population supposedly using drugs and drawing $250 in TANF a month...this whole thing is a scape goat on the poor.

And another thing-- If America can't pay it's bills then perhaps a start would be to stop giving billions in aid to countries that don't need it or hate us. We borrow from China to give to xy and z. Wtf?!
 
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I agree that they should not drug test! Alcohol is a drug. What about those who abuse prescription meds like riddilin? And it is prescribed to them? How far you going to go? What I really love is the whole pre employment drug screen. Really? A fucking ten dollar an hour job and you expect people to not be high? Get real! For ten bucks an hour you want me to hand over my life? Piss off I say! I see this shit all the time. It's lame really. I have worked with drunks and addicts most of my life. At least they are working for the money to buy their stuff. If you won't hire them then they go on welfare. If you made this about alcohol it would all stop. Tell someone that they cannot drink if they want a job and then listen to the out cry. I would like to see them then talking about all this testing. So you wanna work here huh well I hope you don't drink! Cause we test for that! Oh what a happy day that would be!! I am with ya Billy Fuck em!
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Here's a little news flash: normally one is expected to be sober at jobs that pay far more than $10 an hour as well as the low-paying ones. In fact, staying sober is one of the secrets to getting better jobs or running your own business - you usually have clients who expect you to be sober. If you drink, you do so during off times and in moderation. People make fewer mistakes when they are sober/not using drugs, and are also usually nicer to each other and not neglectful of whatever responsibilities they may have.

I am sorry if mind altering substances (legal and otherwise) are such an important part of someone's life that they feel giving them up would be equivalent to giving up their whole life. <<<<<< That's also why I don't like them, I don't want to be a slave to something like that when I think giving it up equals giving up my whole life. It is deeply saddening to me. I expect I have a lot to learn about addiction because I don't understand or like this mindset at all. I also think it makes you more or less a slave to whatever corporation or individual happens to be selling the substance in question. You know, like tobacco companies or drug dealers or pharmaceutical companies. You're basically their bitch.
 
Who's shire? (You're a hobbit?)

And sorry if I offended anyone due to my dislike of addicts. I have a feeling they dislike me as well so at least we're even.

(OK -- looked up Shire and saw it was a pharmaceutical company. During the course of this whole conversation, I thought we were talking about recreational drugs, like meth and things that are highly addictive, that people use for reasons like they're bored or want to seem cool, and drugs which are not useful at all, and I thought we were most definitely not talking about drugs used for legitimate medical reasons.)
 
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this is only temporary said:
Who's shire? (You're a hobbit?)

And sorry if I offended anyone due to my dislike of addicts. I have a feeling they dislike me as well so at least we're even.
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I think they make pharmaceuticals for ADD.
 
this is only temporary said:
Here's a little news flash: normally one is expected to be sober at jobs that pay far more than $10 an hour as well as the low-paying ones. In fact, staying sober is one of the secrets to getting better jobs or running your own business - you usually have clients who expect you to be sober. If you drink, you do so during off times and in moderation. People make fewer mistakes when they are sober/not using drugs, and are also usually nicer to each other and not neglectful of whatever responsibilities they may have.

I am sorry if mind altering substances (legal and otherwise) are such an important part of someone's life that they feel giving them up would be equivalent to giving up their whole life. <<<<<< That's also why I don't like them, I don't want to be a slave to something like that when I think giving it up equals giving up my whole life. It is deeply saddening to me. I expect I have a lot to learn about addiction because I don't understand or like this mindset at all. I also think it makes you more or less a slave to whatever corporation or individual happens to be selling the substance in question. You know, like tobacco companies or drug dealers or pharmaceutical companies. You're basically their bitch.
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Any time you give up your personal freedom your some ones bitch. I find it interesting that people will allow themselves to be a bitch for money. An addict for money. You only get one life. And you surrender that life to a corporation that has no cares about you. If people choose to smoke it's their life. If they want to drink it's their choice to do so too. I am talking about having the choice to do so. I wonder what is worse. A guy smoking pot or a corporation rigging the banking so that people can get loans they can't qualify for and bringing down the entire US economy. No one wants a guy high at work. Unless he is an artist. Then it's ok to listen to him. Ya know like the beatles or zepplin or hundreds of other bands. Everything has its time or place. Hell corporations today check your credit. They want your medical records too. What are you really giving up to work for them? Your freedom to choose. Which is worth more than any amount of money they could offer me.​
 
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