[PUG] DRUG TEST all college students, unemployment beneficiaries, public school children!!!

Naturally we do give up some freedoms to get along with other people either at work or in life. Most jobs are not so draconian that they literally enslave you and take away your freedom to choose. I could easily choose to quit my job and go into business for myself literally this afternoon. Or live with a relative or find some other means of support. And I've got to be able to do whatever it is I agreed to do either in a professional or personal relationship, which is sort of difficult when you're not sober. That's only fair.

From what I understand, it takes quite a bit more effort to give up smoking or meth; you are far more effectively enslaved. Also, with smoking, you are giving your money to a corporation, and you earned that same money either from a corporation or from the government. And I know artists frequently become addicts, they also frequently die from it, that doesn't make me like it any better, it just makes me like it worse. I wish Janis Joplin and Jimi Hendrix were still alive, maybe they'd be arguing with me instead of dead, or maybe they'd at least be making music. Or maybe they'd be born again Christians. Who knows.

Also, just wondering -- I know I get many things in return for working. More than just a paycheck, things like education, skills, relationships with other people (nice ones!) and occassionally travel and entertainment -- you know, I really do get a lot in return. What does pot or smoking or alcohol or meth give you in return? Anything worth having? They just makes you sick, potentially deathly mentally and physically ill. I think I'm preaching now. sorry.
 
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this is only temporary said:
Here's a little news flash: normally one is expected to be sober at jobs that pay far more than $10 an hour as well as the low-paying ones.
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Yes. But just because you drink or smoke weed or whatever doesn't mean that you are going to be high all the time.

I smoke weed and semi-regularly take mushrooms and acid and I'm currently one of the best workers at my job, I'm on the dean's list, I'm a volunteer at several childcare centers for children with disabilities, I'm about to graduate with my degree in Early Childhood Education whereupon I will pursue a masters in Special Education, and I'm an active member of the local arts community, being in a band as well as an active poet and spoken-word/performance artist.

I am sorry if mind altering substances (legal and otherwise) are such an important part of someone's life that they feel giving them up would be equivalent to giving up their whole life.
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Why should I have to give them up when I have proven myself capable of being a productive and independent member of society while also casually using drugs?

You don't seem to differentiate between casual enjoyment and addiction.
You're basically their bitch.
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You're a bitch to money. Everyone in a capitalist society is. Jussayin'.

From what I understand, it takes quite a bit more effort to give up smoking or meth
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Smoking what? Weed? Cigarettes? Crack?

The problem is you don't seem to make the distinction between drugs like weed (or alcohol) and something far more severe and dangerous like meth (or heroin, or PCP, or crack, etc.) The problem is that addiction and drug use are complicated and often very personal and you're oversimplifying it.

Also, just wondering -- I know I get many things in return for working. More than just a paycheck, things like education, skills, relationships with other people (nice ones!) and occassionally travel and entertainment -- you know, I really do get a lot in return. What does pot or smoking or alcohol or meth give you in return? Anything worth having?
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I've actually made a couple of good friends because of contact with local dealers. Not to mention, drugs are pretty damn entertaining. In the case of casual use, drugs are often done in social settings.
 
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MrDoobie said:
Yes. But just because you drink or smoke weed or whatever doesn't mean that you are going to be high all the time.

I smoke weed and semi-regularly take mushrooms and acid and I'm currently one of the best workers at my job, I'm on the dean's list, I'm a volunteer at several childcare centers for children with disabilities, I'm about to graduate with my degree in Early Childhood Education whereupon I will pursue a masters in Special Education, and I'm an active member of the local arts community, being in a band as well as an active poet and spoken-word/performance artist.



Why should I have to give them up when I have proven myself capable of being a productive and independent member of society while also casually using drugs?

You don't seem to differentiate between casual enjoyment and addiction.

You're a bitch to money. Everyone in a capitalist society is. Jussayin'.
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Hm.Yeah. Sounds familiar. The people I've known who have been addicts always say they're "casually enjoying it" when they're not really, they're slowly killing themselves and hurting the ones close to them in the process. They renege on their promises and responsibilities too. They do domestic violence.The addicts I've known cast this glamour over it, like its all fun and makes you the life of the party or somehow more enlightened or free than everybody else; it is not fun, the opposite is true, it is just slow suicide, a formof slavery you can'tescapeevenwhen you want to, and completely miserable for everyone.

However, you certainly seem to be an exception, so congratulations. I know nothing about mushrooms or acid. Presumably you did buy them with money, though.

If I'm hoping to do anything by saying these things it is to remove the glamour.

I've so far in life watched two people close to me die of cirrhosis of liver, one of lung cancer, let's see.... one in rehab for prescription medication addiction, and a couple of grisly motor vehicle accidents directly related to drug use (pot and painkillers, specifically). One in jail with her child (who she neglected) being raised by a grandmother. Trust me, there is nothing casual or enjoyable or even remotely productive about that. I don't want to deal with it; I can understand why employers/taxpayers/the government doesn't want to deal with it either.

That possibly explains my extremely low tolerance for addicts.
 
this is only temporary said:
Hm.Yeah. Sounds familiar. The people I've known who have been addicts always say they're "casually enjoying it" when they're not really, they're slowly killing themselves and hurting the ones close to them in the process. They renege on their promises and responsibilities too. They do domestic violence.The addicts I've known cast this glamour over it, like its all fun and makes you the life of the party or somehow more enlightened or free than everybody else; it is not fun, the opposite is true, it is just slow suicide, a formof slavery you can'tescapeevenwhen you want to, and completely miserable for everyone.
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I don't know if I can trust your anecdotal evidence because you fail to distinguish between casual use vs. addiction and weed vs. meth.

Not only that, but I can't help but be bothered by the fact that you seem to imply that I myself am an addict with no friends slowly killing myself and beating my wife, or something. "You seem to be the exception", feels like sarcasm.

Your views on drugs, even though you claim anecdotal experience, seem severely limited and narrow-minded in their scope. I would suggest you refrain from judging anyone using drugs, casual or addicts both, until you learn to see beyond your own nose. I have personally done drugs and I know a lot of people who also do drugs. I've seen the dark side, but I've also seen lovely, well-functioning people who use drugs. I don't appreciate your tone when you tell me my experiences are wrong just because you have a short-sighted negative bias.

one in rehab for prescription medication addiction
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And I have a friend who recently checked herself into a mental health center because she's depressed and self-harms. There is no shame in admitting you have a serious problem and trying to fix it.

a couple of grisly motor vehicle accidents directly related to drug use (pot and painkillers, specifically)
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That is not directly related to drug use. That is directly related to someone deciding to operate a vehicle when they are not in an appropriate mental state to do so.

One in jail with her child (who she neglected) being raised by a grandmother.
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What did she go to jail for?

Also, can you demonstrate a casual link between her drug use and neglecting her child?
 
Sorry you don't appreciate my tone or believe what I said, I don't know how to fix it, and I wasn't being sarcastic when I said you seemed to be the exception, I actually meant that without the sarcasm. I certainly did have those experiences, I suppose I didn't provide too many details, partly because it is very personal and takes time and emotional energy.

How do you demonstrate a causal link between child neglect and drug use? Does the fact she spent a good amount of time unconcious, and left her child alone and unattended mean a causal link? He had other issues as well, including poor growth; I suspect he was not getting fed enough. I think that had something to do with her addiction.

I do have a strong negative bias and it is for several very good reasons, none of which you seem prepared to believe, I suppose that's since you don't know me or think I might be motivated to lie to you for some reason. However, I never implied you have no friends either, I'm sure you have plenty of friends who are willing to support you in your choices. I don't distinguish casual use vs. addiction very well, that is true. That is because I don't see much of a difference, but evidently there is one.

I don't think there is any shame in being in a rehab center, in fact, I fully support it. I don't like that it is necessary in the first place, that's all.

I personally happen to be of the opinion that supporting someone socially, or financially, or in some other way, when they choose to abuse drugs or alcohol or pot or yes, even tobacco isn't true friendship. So I don't do it. I can totally understand where some of these laws from the OP are coming from, even if they may be misguided.

Just want to reiterate that I was not being sarcastic to Mr.Doobie in my earlier post. Obviously I'm not stating a popular opinion here.
 
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this is only temporary said:
How do you demonstrate a causal link between child neglect and drug use? Does the fact she spent a good amount of time unconcious, and left her child alone and unattended mean a causal link?
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But we can't tell what kind of a parent she would have been without the drugs. Usually addicts have a lot of other problems and we can't guarantee that she wouldn't have been neglectful even without drugs.

Again, a problem you have is that you're not differentiating. What kind of drugs was she into? I do advocate for looser attitudes regarding drugs, but I do draw the line at drugs such as heroin or crack which are incredibly addictive and harmful. If she was into something like that, I think it's also important to distinguish that what she was doing was, indeed, much different from marijuana.

The mother of my goddaughter is into weed, and she's a great mother. She stopped smoking weed because she knew the smoke would be bad for her childs lungs, and she was completely clean during pregnancy. She breastfeeds, so she still doesn't do weed because she knows it can harm her baby, but she intends to go back to smoking once her child is less vulnerable to second-hand affects.
 
Drugs are evidently good because everyone takes them on a daily basis. Drugs is the largest economy in the world. A lot of your co workers are high and you do not know it. The Stigmatism from others makes it impossible for them to be who they are. Until you walk a mile in a mans shoes you have no way of knowing what they feel. Everything has it's place. No one is condoning using drugs ae pot methamphetamine heroin shrooms acid or even prescription medication while driving. Or during surgery on some one high. That is not the time or place for that. In the right setting and the right frame of mind there is a place and time for it. Young adults are usually not ready to use. Their brains are still forming. There are dangers to any drug use. Even Tylenol will kill you. And your kidneys. If drugs are not for you that is ok. No one is hating on you for not using. It's your choice. I just want to have my choice too. And I do. It's why I work for myself. And trade my talents for the things I want. Money us not the only way to get what you need in this world.... ​
 
Billy said:
Come at me bro!
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Drugs are just chemicals, just like food. So they must be the same thing!
 
If I understand the situation right, she started by smoking pot, then abusing painkillers and then graduated to heroin. This is a close friend's daughter and I do not know exactly what all she abused. But you are right, it was much more than pot. Got other stories too but I don't want to seem like a martyr. I'm not.

And,sorry, but I really don't think most people around me are high.

That seems to be the general theme: "Oh, everybody's doing it, it's fun." (bit of a cliche! "Everyone's doing it, it'll make you feeeeeeelll good, I promise. People will like you. Girls will think you're hot.") Phbbbt. No. Everyone's not doing it, and the whole point is it is not always fun or harmless. I'd rather not subsidize it if I don't have to.

My feeling is, why go out of your way to make drug use in general seem like no big deal? It seems like making it as socially acceptable as possible....Why? Free advertising for drug dealers? And, why demonize people who speak up against it?

For example, Mr. Doobie, you chose the name Mr. Doobie and stuck a cartoon next to it, which tells me you think smoking pot is all fun and innocence and even childlike. I can't quite bring myself to agree. I will admit that I am negatively biased and understand that there is a difference between pot and harder drugs. However, you know if you are doing okay, I don't. Hope that makes sense and is not offensive.
 
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You mentioned Hendrix and Joplin in an earlier post. Hendrix would have never been able to play the way he did without mind expanding drugs. His death never had to happen in the first place. At the time there were laws that would jail you for using them. So the female he was with decided not to call for help. I blame the laws for that. No one is denying that Heroin is dangerous. Or cocaine is safe. The Beatles would have never made St Pepper without LSD or any of their other great albums. And none of them succumbed to their use of drugs. I don't know if your an American or not. But the very constitution would not even exist if it were not for weed tobacco and alcohol. When they sat down to write the constitution they were drunk and high and smoking tobacco. And I think they did a pretty good job. The constitution it's self is written on hemp paper. America it's self is founded on the use of what we now call drugs. It it were not for tobacco and weed America would have never gotten it's start.

I disagree with you about this statement "And,sorry, but I really don't think most people around me are high. " No one is going to tell you if they are high. Your a square. And you put their freedom in jeopardy if they confide in you. I have many friends who have great careers who smoke weed daily. A lot of their friends would never guess that they use. Again the stigma of using automatically makes you less of a person. If your co workers are using zanix Oxycontin riddilin Zoloft or any of the other mood altering prescriptions they are high. How many people around you drink? How many do so over a nice lunch? I know a few.

We all know the horror stories about little johny smoking weed then going to coke and meth and heroin. He probably smoked cigs too. And ruining his life. He was too young to know the consequences of his actions. No matter what we do there will always be those who have problems. There will always be young people dying. Car accidents kill more teens than any drugs do. And yet we still let teens drive. Life is a risk. Every day your alive is another day that you could potentially die. People have to be aware of the dangers. And even if there are dangers people will still take that risk. For instance you won't catch me diving out of an airplane. But others love to get that adrenalin high. And are perfectly safe doing so. Life is not without risk and pain. I know kids who had a picture perfect childhood and still turned out messed up. My father was abused his entire childhood by his mother. She was a raging drunk. And yet my Father is a great guy. He overcame it. And he drinks himself. One mans outcome is most certainly not another s.

I have friends who have perished in car accidents. Two of which were killed by drunk drivers. I don't blame alcohol. I blame poor decisions on the part of those who killed them. I have seen friends die riding motorcycles. Seen cars just pull out and cream them. I still ride my motorcycle. I have had it for over 22 years. And if I perish that way so be it. It's just life. You live and you die. It's how you live that counts. It's unfortunate that people abuse drugs. And that is what we are really talking about here. It's not the drugs that are the problem it's the abuse of them that is.
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I have smoked weed taken shrooms and drank alcohol. And I never moved onto the heavier drugs. I never wanted too. I have a lot of other friends who are exactly the same as me. I have seen people on meth it's not pretty. Heroin too. I use my pain meds for pain. I am using some right now. I broke a bone in my foot Tuesday and I need my Vicodin right now. I am not going to keep taking it if I do not need it. Habitual use of anything is bad. It's never good to crutch yourself up in life. Being dependent on anything has poor consequences. You have to know your mind. And be grown up enough to know if you can handle things. Assuming that everyone who uses anything is bad or makes poor decisions is wrong. Some people have the mind to deal with such things. Again no one is condoning using drugs. There are two sides to everything. And until you personally see both sides you will never know. I don't think that everyone should smoke weed or take shrooms. It's not for everyone. And if your already on a bad life trip, drugs won't help you. They will make it worse. Drugs are not an escape...​
 
You know a lot of people abuse their feelings. And then try to hide behind their addictions. You can abuse your own mind mentally. Drugs would have little use to you if you did not abuse yourself in the first place. Many a person has succumbed to their own thoughts...​
 
I disagree with you about this statement "And,sorry, but I really don't think most people around me are high. " No one is going to tell you if they are high. Your a square. And you put their freedom in jeopardy if they confide in you. I have many friends who have great careers who smoke weed daily. A lot of their friends would never guess that they use. Again the stigma of using automatically makes you less of a person. If your co workers are using zanix Oxycontin riddilin Zoloft or any of the other mood altering prescriptions they are high. How many people around you drink? How many do so over a nice lunch? I know a few.
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Efromm, I would appreciate it if you would refrain from calling me names and implying that I would jeopardize my friends' freedom, if I even have any friends. It reminds me very much of high school peer pressure. "Nobody likes you if you don't smoke pot. Square. Everybody's doing it." Really? No.

I'm pretty sure we don't get a whole lot of that sort of thing because (Obvious Statement:) there is drug testing. No one drinks at lunch these days, but they do sometimes at after hours parties.

There's really a large community of people who don't choose to use drugs for one reason or another, quite a few who don't even drink, and it makes perfect sense (to me) that they do not wish to subsidize those who do, per the OP, though paying for a bunch of drug tests may not be the answer.

People have to be aware of the dangers. And even if there are dangers people will still take that risk.
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Yeah, and who is going to tell you about those dangers? Your so-called "friends", telling you how square you are? The person selling you whatever it is you're taking, basically making an income on you becoming a steady user/addict? That's my biggest area of disagreement right there.

Anyhoooo.... guess there is nothing else left to say about that. Namaste.
 
this is only temporary said:
Efromm, I would appreciate it if you would refrain from calling me names and implying that I would jeopardize my friends' freedom, if I even have any friends. It reminds me very much of high school peer pressure. "Nobody likes you if you don't smoke pot. Square. Everybody's doing it." Really? No.

I'm pretty sure we don't get a whole lot of that sort of thing because (Obvious Statement:) there is drug testing. No one drinks at lunch these days, but they do sometimes at after hours parties.

There's really a large community of people who don't choose to use drugs for one reason or another, quite a few who don't even drink, and it makes perfect sense (to me) that they do not wish to subsidize those who do, per the OP, though paying for a bunch of drug tests may not be the answer.


Yeah, and who is going to tell you about those dangers? Your so-called "friends", telling you how square you are? The person selling you whatever it is you're taking, basically making an income on you becoming a steady user/addict? That's my biggest area of disagreement right there.

Anyhoooo.... guess there is nothing else left to say about that. Namaste.
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I am calling you a square cause that is what you are. Your in the box. It's not an insult. Although you are taking it that way. And you would jeopardize someones freedom cause people talk about other people. People love to spread little rumors. It's what humans do. I never said nobody likes you if you do not smoke pot. You said that. It seems that you have some issues of your own that you need to address.

People can get around drug testing very easily. And some drugs are not detectable. And if you have a script for them it does not matter. I know there is a large community of people who do not use drugs. I have been a part of that community for the majority of my life. Like you I chose not to do drugs. I did them to see for myself what was what.

Actually it was my friends who warned me of the dangers. It's why I never tried the other drugs. And I read up on what I was taking. And decided the risks were ok for me. As far as a person making money off of selling drugs people gotta do what they gotta do to survive. Phizer makes a great steady income off of getting people hooked on their drugs. They sell marinol which is synthetic THC. If Weed has no use then why do they make it? They also make opioid s which come from the poppy plant that produces heroin. And they also use cocaine in their medications too. They tell kids to not do drugs but give them mood altering drugs like zanix and riddlin. They just like a street dealer are in the business of making money.

"There's really a large community of people who don't choose to use drugs for one reason or another, quite a few who don't even drink, and it makes perfect sense (to me) that they do not wish to subsidize those who do, per the OP, though paying for a bunch of drug tests may not be the answer."

I don't support war and yet my tax dollars go for that. I also do not support drug enforcement and yet I am paying for it. There are a lot of things that I do not support and yet I still pay for them. Your argument about this is moot. You don't use drugs. That is great. I do. I am willing to admit that I do. You want to keep believing that you do not use drugs either and I am sure you do. I am sure that you have had some sort of pain medication. I am sure that you have had other commercially made substances too. This whole I don't do drugs thing is really funny actually. Because society deems that if you use drugs they are the illicit and illegal ones. And more people are hooked today on so called "legal" drugs than the illicit ones. And the drug companies know this. They use it to their advantage. I got no probs with you or your opinion. After all one mans truth is another mans lie. Peace. There is this great feature we have on this site it's called the ignore list. It you don't like my posts just kindly put me on your ignore list.. Peace.. Efromm...
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Yes, Billy, I have had coca cola and coffee. It hasn't yet caused any problems. Maybe I will mix a little pot or something in it next time so I can be just like the cool kids. :P
 
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