Emotional Affairs

[Odyne]

Let us end this here. I believe my contribution to Odyne's question is made and other viewpoints should have room for airing. I would in fact like to see how anyone can draw an enforceable line on this concept beyond those I've mentioned.

And it is much appreciated, Kiu. None of the sources I looked up mentioned how this concept could be used maliciously to ruin friendship, justify privacy intrusion and nonsensical jealousy and possessiveness.

However, I see this happening with other concepts as well, including sexual affairs, etc. The problem would be the person and not the notion itself.

Thanks for sharing. :]

As a perspective added to the topic as a whole:

Personally, during one of my relationships (the best I've had mind you) my ex was very close friends with a female friend, a childhood friend, and not once did I ever question his feelings for me. His actions met his words, and the difference between the nature his feelings for me and for his friend were stark and obvious. She was also kind enough to give us the space we needed to build that connection necessary for our relationship. I am also lucky enough to have her friendship until this day.

But then again, I was also involved with someone who demanded emotional intimacy and investment from my part, but then refused (not directly, but deceitfully) to return the same level of trust and security. In that light, I would say he was the one who was trying to "own" me, and not the other way around.

In general, I would say a healthy relationship between two healthy people is built on that connection where trust runs deep, needs are met by each other, as well as open communication.

I don't think the concept itself is faulty, but I do think that, unlike physical infidelity, it is hard to find evidence of it soon enough to fix the problem.. to the point where the person who is engaging in it may not even be aware of it happening.

Emotions are difficult to understand.

 

[not sure]

What i mean is that her trust issues, which were probably not about you, was maybe based on her not having built a strong foundation of trust in her own relationship so she envied it. And i think although she was unnecessarily jealous, if she had experiences in the past where other partners were not trustworthy, then it would be understandable why she has difficult trusting him. And even if his feelings are not relevant to you, they would have to be relevant to her. So, if he was indicating in his behavior that he felt more for you and she noticed this, then i can see why she would feel the way she did.

So, in the end, it does come back to her. @kiu

I knew I said that I would drop this but...

Is it not possible that her trust issues were her trust issues alone?

Why is it assumed that he must have given her reason to doubt? At least I can admit to the possibility that he could have. The fact that he sacrificed our friendship for her, does that not say something about him? Why can no one admit to the possibility that she could just be wrong?

If she was wrong, why in heaven's name would it be all right to think that the change to be made should be made by anyone but her? What significance is her feelings if she is wrong?

I cannot understand this idea that feelings come before right. I live with it. I try to work with it but really it makes me want to scream. I lose respect for human beings a little more and I wonder along with the other INTJs who've expressed their frustration with this kind of thinking if there is any relief for us in this existence? Is this what the rest of our lives will be? If it is, it is unbearable.

 

[Gaze]

I knew I said that I would drop this but...

Is it not possible that her trust issues were her trust issues alone?

Why is it assumed that he must have given her reason to doubt? At least I can admit to the possibility that he could have. The fact that he sacrificed our friendship for her, does that not say something about him? Why can no one admit to the possibility that she could just be wrong?

If she was wrong, why in heaven's name would it be all right to think that the change to be made should be made by anyone but her? What significance is her feelings if she is wrong?

I cannot understand this idea that feelings come before right. I live with it. I try to work with it but really it makes me want to scream. I lose respect for human beings a little more and I wonder along with the other INTJs who've expressed their frustration with this kind of thinking, as it manifests itself in different forms, if there is any relief for us in this existence? Is this what the rest of our lives will be? If it is, it is unbearable.

[MENTION=3710]kiu[/MENTION] . . .

So, in the end, it does come back to her. @kiu

 

[Kgal]

No single person can provide the full range of human experience to another.

If your partner does not care to try to develop emotional intimacy with you - then what do you do? You can try to find it outside of the marriage in order to save the marriage. Or you can call into your shell and wither.

You choose.

 

[Odyne]

No single person can provide the full range of human experience to another.

If your partner does not care to try to develop emotional intimacy with you - then what do you do? You can try to find it outside of the marriage in order to save the marriage. Or you can call into your shell and wither.

You choose.

Then there should be the equivalent:

"If your partner does not care to try to develop sexual intimacy with you - then what do you do? You can try to find it outside of the marriage in order to save the marriage. Or you can call into your shell and wither.

You choose."

and then you would have:

"Cheating = saving a marriage"

That sounded like an absurd double-standard to me.

 

[Kgal]

Then there should be the equivalent:

"If your partner does not care to try to develop sexual intimacy with you - then what do you do? You can try to find it outside of the marriage in order to save the marriage. Or you can call into your shell and wither.

You choose."

and then you would have:

"Cheating = saving a marriage"

That sounded like an absurd double-standard to me.

Like I said, It' your choice.

Oh and I meant to say "crawl" into your shell...sorry about that.

 

[Odyne]

Like I said, It' your choice.

Oh and I meant to say "crawl" into your shell...sorry about that.

No. I believe there are other reasonable routes to go thorough than the grim ultimatum you have given.

If there is no emotional and sexual intimacy being gratified in a relationship (let alone a marriage), then please do tell me what is there left to save?

 

[not sure]

I am pleased that you recognize that friendships can coexist with romantic relationships.

But then again, I was also involved with someone who demanded emotional intimacy and investment from my part, but then refused (not directly, but deceitfully) to return the same level of trust and security. In that light, I would say he was the one who was trying to "own" me, and not the other way around.

I think you are right. He was trying to own you.

From my perspective, I can only ask someone to love me. If I have to demand, "LOVE ME!!!!" then really it is worthless. It is time to move on.

Is the kind of behaviour demonstrated in your quote an emotional affair? You are intelligent so I trust you to know the difference and you've shown it with your examples. Some people would probably label it that way but that just makes things unnecessarily complicated. It's simply not love and when you look at it from that perspective, I think things become perfectly clear. The need for manipulation and demands falls away.

What do I know anyway? The people who play by the generally accepted rules aren't sitting alone like I am and making posts to this forum. Therefore, what's right appears to be what works.

 

[Kgal]

No. I believe there are other reasonable routes to go thorough than the grim ultimatum you have given.

If there is no emotional and sexual intimacy being gratified in a relationship (let alone a marriage), then please do tell me what is there left to save?

I was under the impression this question of emotional intimacy was with direct regard to a marriage.
In my culture when one marries it's for better or worse and death till you part and a whole host of reasons why one stays married - whether it's healthy or not.

So with regard to marriage - you 'save' a marriage because it's expected, it's honorable, it's the right thing to do, your church sanctioned it and you have no other choice, and the list goes on. Many, many people have sought emotional intimacy with others so they can stay in one. I did.

I agree with you that if one does not have either emotional nor physical intimacy - then there is no point in saving it. Yet it's done every day - and I see people in sorrow everywhere.

I think kiu was right when she said you can have deep friendships which provide emotional intimacy and maintain a 'faithful' marriage. I do not think it's as easy for physical intimacy. Yet many have done so as well.

Throwing the "marriage card" down on the table and forcing the friendship to end just because one is 'uncomfortable' with the spouse being close to another is a low blow.

Instead - the couple could use the occurrence to explore their marriage relationship and what needs are not being met.

imo, the woman kiu talked of felt righteous in her indignation and felt she was in the right and he was wrong for alleged infidelity. Therefore - she would probably not agree to exploring new areas for their marriage.

You asked...

Is emotional cheating considered a form of cheating? Is it just as damaging to the relationship as physical cheating? Is it also just as difficult to work out and try to amend?

I do not consider it cheating. I do think if the person who is having it with another - does not endeavor to engage their spouse in that kind of intimacy - then I think the marriage is stagnant and not good for either at the moment. It could be a wake up call for both of them.

If the person DID try to engage their spouse and they refused to try or could not based upon their level of interests or personality - then I don't think it's detrimental to the marriage - but could be to the person seeking the intimacy. It depends upon their choices and their need for it. I should have said - If one needs it - then you either go get it elsewhere - or whither.

Difficult to work out? It depends upon the willingness of both parties to explore what happened.

All I'm saying is that emotional closeness between 2 people is a precious connection to have - no matter the gender. If people are honest and courageous - they can have a good relationship - even while they are close with others - as long as they don't think they own each other.

I'm sorry for you making you feel grim Odyne. I did not mean for it to sound that way. I get riled up when people start talking about cheating and making it out to be something black and white. It's not.

 

[apogee]

Some time ago I had a friend of mine refer to that as a sexless affair. I found that an interesting name for it, but oddly true. The emotional end is all there, but not acted on physically.

 

[Phage]

How people define "emotional fidelity" is also something you have to take into account... but I think at some level, everyone has this. And I don't expect things that I cannot expect of myself.

 

[Blind Bandit]

I pretty much agree with everything [MENTION=3710]kiu[/MENTION] and [MENTION=2578]K-gal[/MENTION] said. its one of the main reasons I would hesitate to jump into a relationship. Just as no man is an Island same is true of a couple.

 

[not sure]

Let's take this to the extreme. Imagine a world where we are all bisexual. Does this mean I am to have no friendships? Or does it mean all my friendships are due to end once my friend becomes romantically involved?

Back to reality. My friends are usually male and heterosexual. I don't plan it that way. That's what happens. At this point, I have severely restricted my friendships for fear of this repeating itself. It's a very difficult way to live and all I can ask any male friend of mine, now or in the future, is to give me fair warning when you think you've found "the one" because I must protect myself. I will not have anyone call into doubt my character in this way ever again.

 

[not sure]

I pretty much agree with everything [MENTION=3710]kiu[/MENTION] and [MENTION=2578]K-gal[/MENTION] said. its one of the main reasons I would hesitate to jump into a relationship. Just as no man is an Island same is true of a couple.

Exactly.

I suspect that this is one of the things that contributes to the failure of so many marriages. The spouses insist on socially isolating each other. People need other people.

 

[apogee]

"If there is no emotional and sexual intimacy being gratified in a relationship (let alone a marriage), then please do tell me what is there left to save?"

Well, there is the possibility of that emotional and sexual intimacy. After all, it existed at one point, right? I believe that if it was there in the beginning, and I have made a commitment, then I have committed to try to re-kindle those things when they flag.

It is the basest of human nature to try to get our needs met. We are not meant to be isolated beings. For those of us who need a deeper, more meaningful relationship with others, we either re-build what we have or we move on. For me, commitment dictates that I put the effort into what I already have. Of course, that leaves me wondering when I have tried hard enough. And then, I chide myself to march on, because I am looking for an excuse to take an out. Sigh!

All that to say that although emotional cheating is easy to justify, I am not sure it is justifiable.

 

[Gaze]

I don't think seeing emotional cheating as a real thing means couples should not have friends outside of their romantic relationship, and don't see where anyone who has argued for the real impact of emotional cheating has said it's ok for a spouse or partner to insist their partner not be friends with someone simply because of jealousy. Everyone has a right to their own friends and to have relationships with people they can trust outside of romantic relationships. But if a person has trust issues, their partner should of course work with them to alleviate that fear, but if it's an issue they alone have, counseling, etc. can be a way to deal with those issues if the couple wants to make it work. If a partner has a history of cheating or getting involved with people romantically with someone, not necessarily physically, outside their relationship, then insecure or not, the other partner has a right to be concerned about whether they're trustworthy, and in that case, I would be concerned about them having very close relationships with someone who belongs to the sex they are attracted to.

I don't want to control my partner and the suggestion that someone must want to control their partner if they believe that emotional cheating exists is a little extreme. I'd like to think that my partner wouldn't feel crowded or "owned" by me and that i wouldn't expect more than is reasonable. If they are not open and honest with me, then i would have every right be suspicious. I do think romantic partners do have a right to expect some amount of exclusivity.

 

[Phage]

I don't think seeing emotional cheating as a real thing means couples should not have friends outside of their romantic relationship, and don't see where anyone who has argued for the real impact of emotional cheating has said it's ok for a spouse or partner to insist their partner not be friends with someone simply because of jealousy. Everyone has a right to their own friends and to have relationships with people they can trust outside of romantic relationships. But if a person has trust issues, their partner should of course work with them to alleviate that fear, but if it's an issue they alone have, counseling, etc. can be a way to deal with those issues if the couple wants to make it work. If a partner has a history of cheating or getting involved with people romantically with someone, not necessarily physically, outside their relationship, then insecure or not, the other partner has a right to be concerned about whether they're trustworthy, and in that case, I would be concerned about their relationships they have very close relationships with who belong to the sex they are attracted to.

I don't want to control my partner and the suggestion that someone must want to control their partner if they believe that emotion cheating exists is a little extreme. I'd like to think that my partner wouldn't feel crowded or "owned" by me and that i wouldn't expect more than is reasonable. If they are not open and honest with me, then i would have every right be suspicious. I do think romantic partners do have a right to expect some amount of exclusivity.

I agree with Res.

I don't want to own my partner. And they can be friends with whoever they want, but if I catch them writing love letters to another person, I will leave. I'm not about playing games or getting angry. I just go, no bullshit. I only ask that our love be exculsive and if you aren't going to be able to do that, I understand, but good bye. Simple.

 

[54192&#cmy]

We've all heard about sexual affairs (physical cheating) and how they could be damaging to a relationship, cause trust issues to the parties involved and the reasons behind them happening in the first place. The topic has been addressed extensively.

But..anybody heard of emotional cheating? Having an emotional affair with someone outside of your relationship?

http://hubpages.com/hub/Emotional_Affairs-The_Shocking_Truth

This link is the closest thing to a clear definition of what an emotional affair is. There aren't that many things said about it, and not many people address it. Is that because it is difficult to pin down or prove?

Is emotional cheating considered a form of cheating? Is it just as damaging to the relationship as physical cheating? Is it also just as difficult to work out and try to amend?

Thoughts?

Also, if anybody has better links or sources to read up on this it'd be very much appreciated.

If your in a relationship at least in my mind you should be in that relationship. If your more involved with another person more than your lover your cheating them from being with you. I could be accused of cheating with my cars motorcycles camera friends. The list goes on. At some point you are also cheating on yourself. No one can totally commit themselves to another person. They can try. They can have high ideals and fantasies of how they want the relationship to be. But it's impossible for anyone to be that committed to anything. So I can't answer that question. Maybe every once and awhile it happens. But you never know what your lover is fantasizing about or thinking for that matter.....

 

[not sure]

I don't think seeing emotional cheating as a real thing means couples should not have friends outside of their romantic relationship, and don't see where anyone who has argued for the real impact of emotional cheating has said it's ok for a spouse or partner to insist their partner not be friends with someone simply because of jealousy.

Fine.

What is the reality though?

Compared with 1985, nearly 50 percent more people in 2004 reported that their spouse is the only person they can confide in. But if people face trouble in that relationship, or if a spouse falls sick, that means these people have no one to turn to for help, Smith-Lovin said.

From:Social Isolation Growing in U.S., Study Says -- The Washington Post

I'm sure a lot of things contribute to this state of affairs and I suspect that the concept of emotional cheating is one of those things. The study did mention that while the number of contacts are growing the quality of contacts is worsening. I would think a healthy marriage should include good friends.

I cannot quote Sun Tzu directly but I know one of his teachings is the dangers of building fortresses. His idea is that fortresses are subject to falling from a seige. This is what the concept of emotional cheating is like to me, the building of a fortress. As the quote, indicates how does the couple survive trouble when there are no close friends, only people who smile politely across the table when they meet to play cards or whatever it is married people do?

Right here on this forum, I've met people who confess that they are lonely. I expected them to say they were lonely for a significant other but no, they have that. They are lonely for friends.

 

[not sure]

I agree with Res.

I don't want to own my partner. And they can be friends with whoever they want, but if I catch them writing love letters to another person, I will leave. I'm not about playing games or getting angry. I just go, no bullshit. I only ask that our love be exculsive and if you aren't going to be able to do that, I understand, but good bye. Simple.

Love letters would be a no-no.

But you never know what your lover is fantasizing about or thinking for that matter..... [/I][/B]

I don't think it's anyone's business what anyone is fantasizing about unless they are invited to know.