Emotional Intimacy (with non-partner friends)

[worthy]

This question is specifically for the NFs in the crowd. I have been grappling for awhile with my need for emotionally intimate platonic relationships, and how it seems most people out in the world do not have as deep a need for this as I do, and as I have noticed my NF friends do. I know I'm very lucky to have friends who can relate.

I don't like to generalize based on gender, but I'm a woman, and for many years I have found seeking out and benefitting most from emotionally intimate relationships with men. To be clear, I'm talking about deep emotional/intellectual/creative/spiritual intimacy, maybe also shared experiences, but not sexual or romantic intimacy. I have no sexual attraction towards these friends (and I do keep that on my radar because -- boundaries).

I rarely find people who can match my depth and intensity on an emotional level, and when I do find them, if it's a good match of a friendship, whatever the gender, I commit deeply and do whatever is needed to help that friendship last.

It's all well and good if/when they are single. The problem comes up when their partners can't relate or other people around us don't get it. There are firm general social taboos in place in American society about who we share intimacy with (including emotional, not just physical). I get that this helps people who are inclined to stray in a hurtful way to do the right thing, at least sometimes. It helps others feel safe, which is also important. But in my experience, good boundaries prevent any threat.

It can be normal and healthy for some people to naturally need and appropriately manage this sort of friendship in a platonic way that is not a true threat to either person's marriage or partner, right? My experience says yes. But I'm asking because social norms do play an important role, and I want to be thoughtful in how I go against them, when I do.

I also am feeling a little self-righteous about my need for deep emotional intimacy and my ability to get that need met in platonic relationships, and frustrated that there are social structures that make it hard to hold onto even if you do find it. It feels as important to my health and balance as food, water, sleep, etc. To be so deeply seen, heard, and known is a rare but essential experience. I associate this with being an NF, but...? I have also experienced similar with INTJs and INTPs.

I am very lucky to have two current friends who are in this category; one is struggling in his marriage in part because his ISFP wife is jealous of his female friends (he's an ENFP). Obviously that's between them, but I *feel* his need for those friendships just as I feel my need to maintain a friendship with him. For him to walk away from those emotionally deep friendships would mean killing off a part of himself. and I would feel the same if I had to categorically walk away from my own emotionally deep friendships.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

(PS Hey, hello there; I took a break, I'm back, hi!!!!!!)

 

[worthy]

{waves at @Asa }

 

[acd]

I've male friends but it was never anything deeply emotional. We didn't get emotionally intimate with each other. We didn't bear our souls to one another or cry in each other's arms. I feel like I've been able to talk about really interesting things with guy friends but I don't feel like we were intimate in those conversations.

I think it's difficult for things not to start to feel romantic once you go there emotionally. Even if it's not intentional.

 

[Asa]

{waves back @worthy }

Hello! How are you? I was thinking of you last week and almost PM'd you just to tell you I hope you're doing well.

Right after I read your post I had to hop offline for a while.

Your experience with deep friendships is similar to mine. It's essential, platonic, and gender doesn't matter. Gender isn't an issue in my social circle in the city or for most of my closest friends. (One of them, an INFP, only makes close friends with women.)

When it gets tricky, usually when an old friend has a new girlfriend or when I haven't met a work friend's wife, I always try to forge a friendship with the girlfriend/wife. I make a point of it.

Living rurally changed things. My experience living here is that men and women don't have friendships. Both my guy friends here were my husband's friends first, and I don't know them well enough to share anything deep. Is this your experience living rurally? I like the distance men keep, and the respectfulness, but it does cut down on my chances of meeting Intuitives.

The ENFP's marriage sounds like it is in big trouble. The ISFP is insecure and jealous, which is unhealthy. ISFPs are supposed to be more prone to jealousy than other types, too. They need to solve that, learn to trust each other, learn to be less controlling, and solve whatever other problems they have, or that marriage is in trouble. People can't thrive if their needs aren't met, including friendship and deep connection. As his friend, I'd be supportive and also willing to back away to help him save his marriage.

 

[David54]

Yes, it's possible.

 

[worthy]

Thanks, Asa! I'm well, in the grand scheme. I hope you are, too.

My marriage ended after my ex had a five-year emotional affair in which he completely shut me out and used his (now current) partner to get his emotional needs met (at the time). It was quite unhealthy on all levels, and I didn't have enough perspective at the time to realize what was going on, but I see it now. So coming out of that betrayal, I spent a number of years refusing to enter into anything but shallow friendships with partnered men unless/until I'd also built a strong friendship with their wives, and even then, only allowed those friendships with men to happen at a distance.

This also turned out to be unhealthy for me, to have this very broad general rule that precluded deep friendships with half the population, some of whom I now realize are absolutely amazing, wonderful, understanding friends and valuable catalysts for my growth and well-being.

When I was married and lived more rurally, I would agree with what you wrote about rural living. Friendships did seem more gender specific then, and there weren't so many opportunities for one-on-one interactions. But I have a wide network, live in town now, my kids are older, I've been navigating without a partner for awhile, and I seem to find myself in the company of people who act socially more as individuals than couples (even if they are two individuals who make up a couple).

Back to your point of forging a friendship with the girlfriend/wife, I make it a point to be upfront and transparent and send the message, verbally and nonverbally, that I'm not a threat and have no intentions for their partner other than friendship. I trust my sense of when to back off and when to be in closer proximity.

In the case I mentioned, I think I wasn't clear: my friends know their marriage is fraught, they're working on it, my friendship with him isn't the reason, and I know where to stand. My disappearing wouldn't fix the problem, wouldn't even ease it, though I would do it if it would.

But of course it's up to the partner to hold their own boundaries as well, and I can't control that other than to call it out or end the friendship if it seems to be a problem. In all cases with my platonic deep friendships, if I felt the vibe change toward an unwanted type of attraction, I'd disengage and disappear. I have done that once, with an old friend who showed up again, we hung out a few times, and I felt intuitively that he was beginning to slide toward romantic intent even while his marriage was not quite over. Not for me, thanks.

I guess it just seems that for me, this kind of deep platonic friendship that I love is like air and water and sunshine, and yet so many people don't seem to recognize it or understand it, so I thought maybe MBTI could explain that difference.

{waves back @worthy }

Hello! How are you? I was thinking of you last week and almost PM'd you just to tell you I hope you're doing well.

Right after I read your post I had to hop offline for a while.

Your experience with deep friendships is similar to mine. It's essential, platonic, and gender doesn't matter. Gender isn't an issue in my social circle in the city or for most of my closest friends. (One of them, an INFP, only makes close friends with women.)

When it gets tricky, usually when an old friend has a new girlfriend or when I haven't met a work friend's wife, I always try to forge a friendship with the girlfriend/wife. I make a point of it.

Living rurally changed things. My experience living here is that men and women don't have friendships. Both my guy friends here were my husband's friends first, and I don't know them well enough to share anything deep. Is this your experience living rurally? I like the distance men keep, and the respectfulness, but it does cut down on my chances of meeting Intuitives.

The ENFP's marriage sounds like it is in big trouble. The ISFP is insecure and jealous, which is unhealthy. ISFPs are supposed to be more prone to jealousy than other types, too. They need to solve that, learn to trust each other, learn to be less controlling, and solve whatever other problems they have, or that marriage is in trouble. People can't thrive if their needs aren't met, including friendship and deep connection. As his friend, I'd be supportive and also willing to back away to help him save his marriage.

 

[ThomasJ79]

Such friendships are the best and filled with genuine love for one another. I have a strong preference for deep, emotionally connected friendships. Sometimes, sexuality emerges and that has to be acknowledged and choices made, but platonic friends is the most genuinely loving imo

 

[Linda Loo]

I have friendships like this. I'm an sx variant so I don't really know how to do anything else. This is what friendship is to me.

From what I have learned and observed in other male female friendships, where at least one person is spoken for, is that meeting your own needs is crucial. Taking and allowing space is crucial. Communication is crucial with the spouse and the friend.

I have learned from my male friends that most men are just not vulnerable and deep with each other. They are only comfortable opening up with women.

I know a few people with T mates that cannot get their needs met solely through their mate. They are also careful not to have only one friendship of this nature. Laser focus on only one deep friendship is fraught with co-dependency and is definitely riding the emotional affair line, in my opinion.

Trust from all three parties is essential. Walking away when asked is a necessary evil. Prepare to disengage.

 

[acd]

Tbh, my husband has a female friend he knows through online gaming. She and her husband live nearby so we have hung out with them a few times. I've actually become friends with her too since my husband got me to start playing.

Probably smart on his part to include me because I can get jealous lol. And if he had developed a deeply emotional relationship with our friend... Where he was sharing things with her he didn't with me I would find that to be a problem. I think it would be completely inappropriate for him to develop an intimate bond with her. Even if many would say it's platonic. I don't think it's platonic to be intimate with opposite gender friends emotionally in ways you can't or won't with your spouse.

But we mostly just play games and joke around together. It's actually a big group of us that play together. It would be weird if my husband spent hours holed up in a room just playing with her talking about deeply personal or intimate things. I think I would have every right to be concerned and jealous if that were the case.

 

[ThomasJ79]

I have friendships like this. I'm an sx variant so I don't really know how to do anything else. This is what friendship is to me.

From what I have learned and observed in other male female friendships, where at least one person is spoken for, is that meeting your own needs is crucial. Taking and allowing space is crucial. Communication is crucial with the spouse and the friend.

I have learned from my male friends that most men are just not vulnerable and deep with each other. They are only comfortable opening up with women.

I know a few people with T mates that cannot get their needs met solely through their mate. They are also careful not to have only one friendship of this nature. Laser focus on only one deep friendship is fraught with co-dependency and is definitely riding the emotional affair line, in my opinion.

Trust from all three parties is essential. Walking away when asked is a necessary evil. Prepare to disengage.

i rarely can connect to another guy. Most are just not available emotionally in a genuine way. My best friendships have been with women.

 

[Wildfire]

Just some thoughts…

I’d like to point out that marriages aren’t just about romance and sex. They are a joint quest for deep emotional, intellectual, creative, and spiritual intimacy and shared experiences much like you just described that you have, or hope to have with this person. So any idea that you’re not stepping on “her turf” because you aren’t seeking a sexual relationship with her husband is a fallacy.

For me, the real question is whether or not their relationship has the room, health, and maturity to allow for other “intimates” and at this point it seems like the answer is no. But let me be clear, in no way can I, in good conscience, make the wife out to be “the villain” in this scenario. Nor do I assume that she is the only one who needs to grow or has something to overcome. In fact, the jealousy she is said to be feeling would be a perfectly natural extension of her fear of something she doesn’t understand.

 

[ThomasJ79]

I have also found that placing all of one’s emotional needs onto one person isn’t fair nor realistic for anyone. The idea that one person exists to meet all of these expectations can be very damaging to relationships. Balancing deep emotional intimacy with a partner and a friend of the opposite sex takes a lot of emotional maturity, openness, honesty, and trust. Reassuring your partner of your commitment, being inclusive, and non-secretive, are all very important.

 

[Wildfire]

In the case I mentioned, I think I wasn't clear: my friends know their marriage is fraught, they're working on it, my friendship with him isn't the reason, and I know where to stand. My disappearing wouldn't fix the problem, wouldn't even ease it, though I would do it if it would.

It's important to know where to stand.

I didn't see this post before I posted above.

 

[worthy]

Thank you for your responses. After a quick read, what I think I'm getting back here in general is that it's okay (or simple?) to have this type of relationship with someone who is not partnered, but once they have a partner, or if they have a partner, it is best to withdraw or avoide it, or it's one of those things that only works as the rare exception, not as a norm. Is that right?

I push back against the idea that we can or should meet every need for our partners. Some people's need for connection and intimacy is larger than one relationship. It is burdensome for a partner to have to be "the everything" -- but I am coming at this from a failed marriage with a partner who was incapable of being everything I needed and certainly felt I was not meeting his needs adequately. I understand that partners need to discuss their needs. And yet...in the ENFP/ISFP example, the ENFP has a deep need to engage around spirituality, and the ISFP has no interest in or tolerance for that depth of engagement in that area. So the ENFP either has to go outside the relationship to get that need met, or kill off that part of himself, right?

One might say the "danger" lies in being intimately connected with someone who could conceivably step in to replace the original partner. (As happened in my marriage -- after he left, my ex partnered with the person he had made emotionally primary for the previous several years). But in this age of gender and sexual fluidity, it seems like the old framework of keeping your marriage "safe" by only having "intimates" of your own gender no longer applies. As history tells us, this framework led to many secret same-sex romances that looked from the outside like close friendships.

So is it not okay to have any other "intimates" when you are married or partnered or the equivalent? Maybe the answer is yes. Maybe the key here is avoiding marriage and/or partnered friends...?

And are another person's spouse's needs then by definition more important than the needs of the spouse or anyone else in the relationship, except perhaps children?

I will reread with fresh eyes tomorrow, but this is where I'm at in my processing...

 

[acd]

Thanks, Asa! I'm well, in the grand scheme. I hope you are, too.

My marriage ended after my ex had a five-year emotional affair in which he completely shut me out and used his (now current) partner to get his emotional needs met (at the time). It was quite unhealthy on all levels, and I didn't have enough perspective at the time to realize what was going on, but I see it now. So coming out of that betrayal, I spent a number of years refusing to enter into anything but shallow friendships with partnered men unless/until I'd also built a strong friendship with their wives, and even then, only allowed those friendships with men to happen at a distance.

This also turned out to be unhealthy for me, to have this very broad general rule that precluded deep friendships with half the population, some of whom I now realize are absolutely amazing, wonderful, understanding friends and valuable catalysts for my growth and well-being.

When I was married and lived more rurally, I would agree with what you wrote about rural living. Friendships did seem more gender specific then, and there weren't so many opportunities for one-on-one interactions. But I have a wide network, live in town now, my kids are older, I've been navigating without a partner for awhile, and I seem to find myself in the company of people who act socially more as individuals than couples (even if they are two individuals who make up a couple).

Back to your point of forging a friendship with the girlfriend/wife, I make it a point to be upfront and transparent and send the message, verbally and nonverbally, that I'm not a threat and have no intentions for their partner other than friendship. I trust my sense of when to back off and when to be in closer proximity.

In the case I mentioned, I think I wasn't clear: my friends know their marriage is fraught, they're working on it, my friendship with him isn't the reason, and I know where to stand. My disappearing wouldn't fix the problem, wouldn't even ease it, though I would do it if it would.

But of course it's up to the partner to hold their own boundaries as well, and I can't control that other than to call it out or end the friendship if it seems to be a problem. In all cases with my platonic deep friendships, if I felt the vibe change toward an unwanted type of attraction, I'd disengage and disappear. I have done that once, with an old friend who showed up again, we hung out a few times, and I felt intuitively that he was beginning to slide toward romantic intent even while his marriage was not quite over. Not for me, thanks.

I guess it just seems that for me, this kind of deep platonic friendship that I love is like air and water and sunshine, and yet so many people don't seem to recognize it or understand it, so I thought maybe MBTI could explain that difference.

If the wife is jealous over female friendships I would give space. It's not your fault the marriage is fraught but I'd be careful not to add to it. It sounds like they need to figure out how to reconnect.

My opinion is that this emotional investment into men would be better spent with a romantic partner rather than platonic friends. Maybe you are having your cake and eating it too though? You get the deep emotional connection and can step away as needed, but not the challenges of long term relationship? Not trying to be rude but offering another perspective.

 

[Y1gtfmd74i5u]

This question is specifically for the NFs in the crowd. I have been grappling for awhile with my need for emotionally intimate platonic relationships, and how it seems most people out in the world do not have as deep a need for this as I do, and as I have noticed my NF friends do. I know I'm very lucky to have friends who can relate.

I don't like to generalize based on gender, but I'm a woman, and for many years I have found seeking out and benefitting most from emotionally intimate relationships with men. To be clear, I'm talking about deep emotional/intellectual/creative/spiritual intimacy, maybe also shared experiences, but not sexual or romantic intimacy. I have no sexual attraction towards these friends (and I do keep that on my radar because -- boundaries).

I rarely find people who can match my depth and intensity on an emotional level, and when I do find them, if it's a good match of a friendship, whatever the gender, I commit deeply and do whatever is needed to help that friendship last.

It's all well and good if/when they are single. The problem comes up when their partners can't relate or other people around us don't get it. There are firm general social taboos in place in American society about who we share intimacy with (including emotional, not just physical). I get that this helps people who are inclined to stray in a hurtful way to do the right thing, at least sometimes. It helps others feel safe, which is also important. But in my experience, good boundaries prevent any threat.

It can be normal and healthy for some people to naturally need and appropriately manage this sort of friendship in a platonic way that is not a true threat to either person's marriage or partner, right? My experience says yes. But I'm asking because social norms do play an important role, and I want to be thoughtful in how I go against them, when I do.

I also am feeling a little self-righteous about my need for deep emotional intimacy and my ability to get that need met in platonic relationships, and frustrated that there are social structures that make it hard to hold onto even if you do find it. It feels as important to my health and balance as food, water, sleep, etc. To be so deeply seen, heard, and known is a rare but essential experience. I associate this with being an NF, but...? I have also experienced similar with INTJs and INTPs.

I am very lucky to have two current friends who are in this category; one is struggling in his marriage in part because his ISFP wife is jealous of his female friends (he's an ENFP). Obviously that's between them, but I *feel* his need for those friendships just as I feel my need to maintain a friendship with him. For him to walk away from those emotionally deep friendships would mean killing off a part of himself. and I would feel the same if I had to categorically walk away from my own emotionally deep friendships.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

(PS Hey, hello there; I took a break, I'm back, hi!!!!!!)

Communication in this case is what helps unfortunately not everyone can hold those boundaries of communication well in order to readjust boundaries in intimate relationships.
Not sure. I’m feeling cynical about everything right now and I’d hate to have any topic be an emotional dumping ground. So I don’t have much else to say.

 

[JustPhil]

I have learned from my male friends that most men are just not vulnerable and deep with each other. They are only comfortable opening up with women.

i rarely can connect to another guy. Most are just not available emotionally in a genuine way. My best friendships have been with women.

Sometimes there are males that need female companionship. Me for one.

If we connect as friends while they are already in a relationship and the partner is not fussed then it is all good. I have found that if you form a relationship like this with someone that is single, and they find someone to partner with, in many cases the person they find will satisfy their emotional needs. I tend to let the relationship die a natural death and do not actively pursue it UNLESS they pursue it and also can convince me that I am not a threat to the other party.

Some people get jealous which I cannot understand. If someone is your friend before they get into a relationship, how possibly could you be a threat to the new partner when they have a new relationship?

 

[slant]

This question is specifically for the NFs in the crowd. I have been grappling for awhile with my need for emotionally intimate platonic relationships, and how it seems most people out in the world do not have as deep a need for this as I do, and as I have noticed my NF friends do. I know I'm very lucky to have friends who can relate.

I don't like to generalize based on gender, but I'm a woman, and for many years I have found seeking out and benefitting most from emotionally intimate relationships with men. To be clear, I'm talking about deep emotional/intellectual/creative/spiritual intimacy, maybe also shared experiences, but not sexual or romantic intimacy. I have no sexual attraction towards these friends (and I do keep that on my radar because -- boundaries).

I rarely find people who can match my depth and intensity on an emotional level, and when I do find them, if it's a good match of a friendship, whatever the gender, I commit deeply and do whatever is needed to help that friendship last.

It's all well and good if/when they are single. The problem comes up when their partners can't relate or other people around us don't get it. There are firm general social taboos in place in American society about who we share intimacy with (including emotional, not just physical). I get that this helps people who are inclined to stray in a hurtful way to do the right thing, at least sometimes. It helps others feel safe, which is also important. But in my experience, good boundaries prevent any threat.

It can be normal and healthy for some people to naturally need and appropriately manage this sort of friendship in a platonic way that is not a true threat to either person's marriage or partner, right? My experience says yes. But I'm asking because social norms do play an important role, and I want to be thoughtful in how I go against them, when I do.

I also am feeling a little self-righteous about my need for deep emotional intimacy and my ability to get that need met in platonic relationships, and frustrated that there are social structures that make it hard to hold onto even if you do find it. It feels as important to my health and balance as food, water, sleep, etc. To be so deeply seen, heard, and known is a rare but essential experience. I associate this with being an NF, but...? I have also experienced similar with INTJs and INTPs.

I am very lucky to have two current friends who are in this category; one is struggling in his marriage in part because his ISFP wife is jealous of his female friends (he's an ENFP). Obviously that's between them, but I *feel* his need for those friendships just as I feel my need to maintain a friendship with him. For him to walk away from those emotionally deep friendships would mean killing off a part of himself. and I would feel the same if I had to categorically walk away from my own emotionally deep friendships.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

(PS Hey, hello there; I took a break, I'm back, hi!!!!!!)

There isn't a right or wrong. Different people will feel different ways. It's all up to the consent of everybody involved.

It's not wrong for a married couple to feel that their emotional intimacy for opposite sex friends should be limited and for jealousy and boundaries to be enacted.

It's also not wrong for another couple to feel ok with the same scenario and have lots of emotional intimacy outside of their marriage with opposite sex people or people of the sex they're attracted to.

I think it's just going to come down to the people in the relationships at risk to work that out. It seems to me like more of a couple issue than anything to do with you personally?

I have an insecure attachment style because of childhood trauma, so I'm sure I would feel very insecure if my partner started spending a lot of time with an opposite sex friend and they seemed to have a special emotional connection. It would be up to us to work through that issue as a couple, and if ultimately it threatened the long term partnership that person would have to decide which was more important. On the other hand, perhaps it would work out with lots of talking about it and figuring out what might help me feel less insecure.

I think that flaw in your thinking process is basing how you ultimately feel about it on societal standards. That's a little silly because I'm sure you can think of a lot of societal standards you think are wrong or don't agree with. That can't be the deciding factor, and if it is, I think you're missing out on a chance at personal development and deciding what you think about things yourself.

 

[Wildfire]

Thank you for your responses. After a quick read, what I think I'm getting back here in general is that it's okay (or simple?) to have this type of relationship with someone who is not partnered, but once they have a partner, or if they have a partner, it is best to withdraw or avoide it, or it's one of those things that only works as the rare exception, not as a norm. Is that right?

It's probably true that it's easiest to be friends with single people, regardless of how deep and meaningful the connection. Generally speaking, some friendships will stay intact when one of the individuals has a change in commitment status, but some will not. For this and other reasons, I think it's wise to live in expectation of change and evolution in all our relationships. I won't comment on how common or rare what you're looking for is except to say that I see you and hear that you experience it as rare.

I push back against the idea that we can or should meet every need for our partners. Some people's need for connection and intimacy is larger than one relationship. It is burdensome for a partner to have to be "the everything" -- but I am coming at this from a failed marriage with a partner who was incapable of being everything I needed and certainly felt I was not meeting his needs adequately. I understand that partners need to discuss their needs. And yet...in the ENFP/ISFP example, the ENFP has a deep need to engage around spirituality, and the ISFP has no interest in or tolerance for that depth of engagement in that area. So the ENFP either has to go outside the relationship to get that need met, or kill off that part of himself, right?

I agree that most people will need much more than one relationship to feel fulfilled in life. I also agree that it would be unhealthy if the person mentioned above felt he had to kill off some part of himself. But does his deep need for spiritual engagement require an emotionally intimate relationship with another woman? And if the nature of that relationship is causing problems in a marriage he values, wouldn't it be wise for him to look for another way to meet the need?

One might say the "danger" lies in being intimately connected with someone who could conceivably step in to replace the original partner. (As happened in my marriage -- after he left, my ex partnered with the person he had made emotionally primary for the previous several years). But in this age of gender and sexual fluidity, it seems like the old framework of keeping your marriage "safe" by only having "intimates" of your own gender no longer applies. As history tells us, this framework led to many secret same-sex romances that looked from the outside like close friendships.

I agree that it's not as simple as that. In fact, ALL outside relationships have the potential to present problems for a couple. But strong healthy couples find the way to identify the issues, make compromises, and set boundaries.

So is it not okay to have any other "intimates" when you are married or partnered or the equivalent? Maybe the answer is yes. Maybe the key here is avoiding marriage and/or partnered friends...?

And are another person's spouse's needs then by definition more important than the needs of the spouse or anyone else in the relationship, except perhaps children?

I will reread with fresh eyes tomorrow, but this is where I'm at in my processing...

You might be interested in exploring the ideas that govern polyamorous and open relationships. Even if you have no desire to travel down that road per se, there is a lot of interesting discussion around the questions you pose.

 

[Asa]

I'm well, in the grand scheme. I hope you are, too.

It's good to hear. <3

I spent a number of years refusing to enter into anything but shallow friendships with partnered men unless/until I'd also built a strong friendship with their wives, and even then, only allowed those friendships with men to happen at a distance.

I did this for a while, too. I did it because I had a close friendship with a gay man people questioned and because too many men I knew casually tried to flirt with me. It didn't really bother me to stop extending myself to new friendships with men because I have my core close friendships.

I guess it just seems that for me, this kind of deep platonic friendship that I love is like air and water and sunshine, and yet so many people don't seem to recognize it or understand it, so I thought maybe MBTI could explain that difference.

Deep friendships are like air and water.
Some people don't get deep with people, though, no matter how close the friendship is. I've learned to pour my depth into my work and not expect it from people. I have friends I can get deep with, but I make sure it isn't heavy every time we communicate. My door is always open for that, though.

I have learned from my male friends that most men are just not vulnerable and deep with each other. They are only comfortable opening up with women.

Most of the men I know say they don't talk about feelings or have deep conversations with other guys. They also won't go to therapy because that isn't manly and they lack trust in therapists. My SO thinks it is bizarre that I have these kinds of conversations with people so easily... that people approach me for it.

A lot of men go to bars and overdrink because that is the only place they are allowed to talk about serious topics and bond on that level. In those situations, they share with everyone in the room – anyone sitting next to them. Ick. It's so much better to have a few trustworthy people to share with regardless of gender.

I've also always had a string of acquaintances who come to me for these conversations and then if they are with their friends in public, they ignore me and secretly try to text an apology. I find human behavior humorous and predictable. I know they are afraid I will get deep in front of their buddies or mention what we talked about. (I won't.)

I don't think it's platonic to be intimate with opposite gender friends emotionally in ways you can't or won't with your spouse.

From my POV, it is platonic. Friends of the spouse's gender can help people talk through conflicts in relationships and act as sounding boards before they approach their spouses. The problem arrives when people can't open up with their spouses in the same way they can be open with others. I've saved a few men from walking out on their wives by being there to talk and explaining the female point of view. I always advocate for the woman, even if I'm better friends with the man. My agenda is to help their marriage and their bond.

That said, your comments are helpful for understanding why some women don't like me. I will take this into consideration.

But we mostly just play games and joke around together. It's actually a big group of us that play together. It would be weird if my husband spent hours holed up in a room just playing with her talking about deeply personal or intimate things. I think I would have every right to be concerned and jealous if that were the case.

I'm usually the only woman on the gaming team and men talk about the weirdest stuff on mic. Sometimes they talk about lowbrow humor and sound like gross little boys, and other times they talk about serious and vulnerable topics they wouldn't open up about in a face-to-face conversation. (For example, one guy's cat died and he was able to talk about it in a way I was sure he didn't talk about it "in person".) Gaming friendships are valuable to men because gamers spend a lot of time together inside a world, doing activities, but [gamers] usually don't really know each other. I was often that woman talking to guys while we sat alone in rooms for hours. It never veered toward anything inappropriate. I ultimately left the team because I felt like I was interfering with male bonding. They were mostly married men, dads, and needed that time away from women to hang with other guys.

i rarely can connect to another guy. Most are just not available emotionally in a genuine way. My best friendships have been with women.

I have a guy friend like this. He is married. It didn't change anything.

It's probably true that it's easiest to be friends with single people, regardless of how deep and meaningful the connection. Generally speaking, some friendships will stay intact when one of the individuals has a change in commitment status, but some will not. For this and other reasons, I think it's wise to live in expectation of change and evolution in all our relationships. I won't comment on how common or rare what you're looking for is except to say that I see you and hear that you experience it as rare.

I agree.

I agree that most people will need much more than one relationship to feel fulfilled in life. I also agree that it would be unhealthy if the person mentioned above felt he had to kill off some part of himself. But does his deep need for spiritual engagement require an emotionally intimate relationship with another woman? And if the nature of that relationship is causing problems in a marriage he values, wouldn't it be wise for him to look for another way to meet the need?

In this case, the ENFP/ISFP marriage sounds like it is potentially a poor match. Unless they're facing an issue like addiction or toxic behavior, any time a person tries to restrict their spouse from being who they are, the marriage weakens. If she doesn't want her husband to form close friendships with women, she needs to step up her game and be more open, accepting, and trustworthy with him so he feels safe being vulnerable with her. He will still need friendships, but he won't need that deeply intimate connection as much and/or they will have such a deep bond that she won't feel insecure about him having other friendships.