Envy of Physical Attractiveness

Second picture is missing now, so hard to make the comparison, assume it was something similar to the naked dude in other posts towards the end of the thread.

I think physical fitness and symmetry are attractive in individuals, that's a biological given, although that might make you want to make conversation with someone right away if they are a dick or loser I for one wont be that interested, very quickly if they are dull and have an uninteresting life I'll find them uninteresting too and want to spend my time some other way than spending it with them.
 
I don't think I've ever been envious of someone for how they look.

For their personality, on the other hand...
 
People have certain programming what to look for when searching for a sexual partner. Men usually prefer certain hip to waist ratio, bigs boobs, fair skin etc. If a woman posses these traits most guys will want to have sex with her even if she's dumb as a brick. Women are more balanced in their selection - they look for physical appeal as well as character traits. Obvious clues for them are strength, symmetry, posture, self-assurance, security, humor. Those are very general characteristics of what's considered attractive in our society as of today. There are lots of exceptions and the norms shift slightly from time to time.

When looking at these two guys - a lot depends on how they dress and present themselves. What does the picture say about the first one: geek, soft, insecure, low self esteem, poor style, tries to please. Not exactly in the attractive category. The second one: strong, secure, doesn't give a shit, stylish, high esteem, smart. A much better impression. And my evaluation comes from a guy's point of view - girls would spot a lot more details and would be even harsher. In reality however that first one might have all the smarts and be a millionaire while the second just a porn actor.

Appearance do matter but they can be altered a lot. If the first guy would get better clothing, wipe that smile off, worked out - he would get a much better rating.
 
If I were to choose between Jonah and Mr. Inked and Chiseled, I think I'd choose Jonah because he appears to be a funny, charming, grounded person and I would feel comfortable being myself. I would assume that if he asked me out, he was being serious and genuinely wanted to get to know me. If Mr. IC asked me out, I would wonder the entire time what his ulterior motives were and I would feel totally uncomfortable. I could be completely wrong though, I am, after all, a horrible judge of character. :-P
 
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I wouldn't go for either of the ones posted. I agree with [MENTION=3765]Vicarious[/MENTION], with Mr Hottie I'd have some serious paranoia about ulterior motives. No one who looked like that would even take a glance my way ahaha...

As for Jonah well...his brand of humor I find a little obnoxious and his roles are a little too "mouth breather" for my taste. I'm sure he isn't actually like that in real life (or maybe he is? I don't know him).

On a purely looks basis, eyes are what catch me first. Lots of different things about eyes attract me. I am particularly fond of playful and kind looking blue eyes. Also I like my men to have manly eyebrows. Mr. Hotties brows are more groomed than mine.
 
The thing about jonah hill. When superbad first came out there was life size posters of him in movie theatres. What he did was hide behind them in movie theatres. And when people approached the posters and started making comments he'd jump out from behind and say "gotchya".
 
I'm also curious to see how many people can relate to this sentiment of envy and why isn't this considered natural e.g. usually the response to admitting to not being attractive is almost hostile in asserting that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Well, that's fine, so then explain why one person is more widely seen as attractive than another person, and how this isn't evidence of an objective criteria?
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It's something I have never understood at all, and it doesn't matter how many of my sighted friends try to explain it, I'll never get it.

I've never felt envy about attractive people, because I've never understood the idea of being attractive physically and i don't care about it. I do get angry about it though, purely because people judge me on my physical and very noticeable disability, and that annoys me because I have never done such a thing to another person in my life and do not see any value in doing so because looks have nothing to do with who a person really is inside.


It's actually the reason why I don't want sight if it can ever be returned to me. I prefer my own ideas of beauty and have no wish to lose them for something that I regard as more shallow.
 
Arsal said:
It's a thread about recognizing what constitutes as "good looks" generally, not meeting those standards and consequently, feeling envious of those who do.

I've been turned down based solely on my looks. I've been judged for physical deformities and such, and blatantly given the "pity look" when I tell them my acne doesn't go away, despite my best attempts and their best advice. This leads me to believe that physical attractiveness is not, in fact, entirely subjective and possibly has an objective component to it. After all, aren't some people deemed attractive by a larger number of people and some people deemed attractive by a few selected individuals?

I wonder why this happens; why certain people are more attractive than others, or why certain physical features are deemed more attractive than others. I'm also curious to see how many people can relate to this sentiment of envy and why isn't this considered natural e.g. usually the response to admitting to not being attractive is almost hostile in asserting that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Well, that's fine, so then explain why one person is more widely seen as attractive than another person, and how this isn't evidence of an objective criteria?

Thoughts and opinions.
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It would be best if you put envy as a separate matter; envious people will find reasons to be envious and be envious about everything, and you can feel inferior without feeling envious.

Objective standard of beauty...I'm sure it exists. Barring deviations from standard (what some would call fetishes, and others tastes) which is just the variety society had brought, it's the way you mentioned it. I'm not so sure if it's closed (as time moves, certain standards changes, as someone had said it here) and not that it's always that case, but if you're talking about people in general, well; people are going to have certain values embedded within their standard in one way or another and in subjective amounts.

Even within people of similar 'niches' (chubby chaser, or racial fetish), there are certain......subtle standards that exist (subtle because I don't really look at them / analyzes them enough.)

For me it's some sort of a Litmus test, with certain implications hidden inbetween the answers, leading to another question. ("Is this guy fat? Yes >> Why? Is he lazy, is it metabolism, or he just overeats? >> what's the other signs? >> What does those signs infer? Is he gross? Is he endearing?")

I think there's hugely interwoven contexts abound. Media and culture and social values often consciously or subconsciously promote the value. If I'm not mistaken, in Africa fat women are seen as highly desirable. Or historically, Chinese like their female to have...a...specific shape of foot (Google foot binding.)

And of course, there's always genetics. Which complicates the situations because you may find people you generally don't find attractive nor compatible in every way as attractive.
 
A lot of it has to do with media. They might be features that come from nature, but for the most part, attractiveness is socially defined. I'd say it is a combination of inter-subjective and objective, but mostly inter-subjective.
 
I like neither of the men. The first is too sloppy and the second too manufactured.

I've never envied anyone's physical attractiveness but I have envied someone's personality. I'm over it.
 
Not gonna lie, but I am digging that second guy's eyes....and that tatoo on his left wrist.
 
Yeah, I can't say I find either of them all that attractive for reasons that should be obvious. That second picture of what's his face grossed me out.

I'm really half and half on the subject of this thread, though, that being the issue of envy of physical attractiveness. On one hand, I can see how the envy is justified. If you happen to be less attractive than someone else, I'd say chances are good that, personality aside, that other person is going to get more attention than you. Assuming attention from others is important to you, I'd think it'd be safe to say that you'd feel envious of someone getting more attention because they're more attractive. These kind of people (no offense to anyone who suffer from physical-based envy) tend to have weak personalities anyway.

Which brings me to the other hand, where I don't see the envy as being justified. Physical attractiveness can only do so much for a person without a decent personality behind it. If someone has a strong personality, then they have other ways of being attractive without a fantastic pair of tits/chesticles/pecs. Besides, envying someone else's physique won't help you improve your own. I find the energy people pour into this kind of envy wasted, because it could be put toward activities that are much more productive (such as improving your own physique).

Like I said, I'm riding the fence on this one. Luckily my section of fence has plenty of padding and a cupholder.
 
Lurker said:
A better shot of 404 error guy

ParkerHurleybyLiemPham01.jpg


Not because he's mostly naked but because it's clear to see that he is physically fit and healthy. That is attractive.
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This man is beautiful, but doesn't mean he's cool. Visual attractiveness within encounters only last till they open their mouth and that usually determines attractiveness. America has a culture that is very image based so attraction is more geared toward it.
Sense of humour and intelligence is a big factor in England, so you get stunners going with really ugly smart guys alot. In India the more fat you have the better, especially the guys they love bigger girls. In japan they love feminine looking men. Depends entirely what is important to you. I like a emotionally strong woman, whom have to be highly intelligent or I just switch off, Also look like they could get physical or passionate at any time.
I only envy very physically strong men, which doesn't mean muscle like the 404 man as that is mainly water retention and looks.
 
I didn't grow up in a household where physical traits were particularly emphasized. I can appreciate another woman and her beauty but that doesn't mean that I automatically assume she is wonderful or some such thing. I agree with the whole personality thing too. Perhaps it is because Ni is so strong in our types or such. Perhaps for Si or Se based people, the idea of attractive rests more strongly on the physcial appearance. I think the second guy is more handsome but again, that doesn't mean he is attractive to me. Personally, I dislike comments directed at my appearance. Like I said, I didn't grow up in an environment where emphasis was placed on how we looked.
 
I must admit that I don't really understand the need for validation. I find it strange to worry about having what other's have. I'm not saying this as a value judgement either. I honestly, just don't get it. I tease with certain people about stuff (like Cleavage [MENTION=2873]Serenity[/MENTION]; ) but it doesn't mean that I feel badly about myself.

I mean, to me, I will feel something more strongly if someone I love says it about me. If you aren't if that realm, then I'm not terribly affected by your views about me. I don't care if you like me, so I don't really care if you think I am attractive either.

It is this kind of stuff that makes me remember that I am an INTJ (and again, I don't mean that in a mean way) rather than an INFJ.
 
404 guy has a sweet bod, but his eyes make him look like a narcissistic asshole, imo.
I'm interested in a person for the vibe they give off, which has little to do with physical appearance. I might like to look, but there's no connection there.

I can't really judge people I don't know or haven't at least talked with. I think attraction is more of a mutual thing, anyway; the rest is just objectification.
 
Haha, 404 error guy is hot as... I think, in my opinion, it is to do with healthiness, in the physical and mental sense. A fit body is likely to be more virile. But it's also (generally) symptomatic of proactive personality, and an active lifestyle. I realise that as people get older, they will put weight on regardless of their lifestyle, and I'm also aware that some very unhealthy people are blessed with tiny waistlines through no effort of their own. However, I think the message I get, mainly subconsciously, from people with good physiques and skin, is a healthy lifestyle and a good and energetic attitude. More fertile, more fun. Haha, often wrong! This is only the superficial element, I'm talking about sexual attraction. Love can rise above all of these.
 
Seraphim said:
It's not as simple as "skinny vs. fat" when it comes to feminine beauty, either. It gets reduced to that too often, but that's not the issue at all. It's shape and proportion. It's been proven that men are more attracted to an overweight woman with a small waist to hip ratio than a thin woman with a high waist to hip ratio.
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True, I think a lot of people want to reduce it to "skinny vs fat" but that's wishful thinking, it gives them a sense of control (you can lose or gain weight to be more beautiful) whereas with waist to hip ratio there is very little control you have, it's pretty much all genes. I think that goes for most physical beauty, it's all genes, the luck of the draw.
 
NDN NT said:
I must admit that I don't really understand the need for validation. I find it strange to worry about having what other's have. I'm not saying this as a value judgement either. I honestly, just don't get it. I tease with certain people about stuff (like Cleavage @Serenity; ) but it doesn't mean that I feel badly about myself.

I mean, to me, I will feel something more strongly if someone I love says it about me. If you aren't if that realm, then I'm not terribly affected by your views about me. I don't care if you like me, so I don't really care if you think I am attractive either.

It is this kind of stuff that makes me remember that I am an INTJ (and again, I don't mean that in a mean way) rather than an INFJ.
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Saaaame here. I really don't give a hoot what people I don't know well think about me. I only care about the thoughts of the people I love. But their thoughts about me can either build me up or tear me to the ground...
 
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