I'm talking about historical gender roles though (I reacted to the fact that you wrote "women had" instead of "have" in the paragraph I quoted). Men and women had different expectations placed upon them, but I think it's more accurate to say that average people were being oppressed by feudal lords and religious institutions than to say women were being oppressed by men.
Well, even in history, the narrative we receive aren't exactly 'gender role-free'; as these two great writers aptly put:
http://fozmeadows.wordpress.com/2012/12/08/psa-your-default-narrative-settings-are-not-apolitical/
http://aidanmoher.com/blog/featured...attle-and-slaves-narrative-by-kameron-hurley/
A sample:
But what about historical women in positions of leadership — warriors, politicians, powerbrokers? Where do they fit in? The ancient world provides any number of well-known examples —
Agrippina the Younger,
Cleopatra,
Boudica,
Queen Bilquis of Sheba,
Nefertiti — but they, too, are far from being unusual: alongside the
myriad female soldiers throughout history who disguised themselves as men stand the
Dahomey Amazons, the
Soviet Night Witches, the
female cowboys of the American west and the modern
Asgarda of Ukraine; the
Empress Dowager Cixi,
Queen Elizabeth I and
Ka’iulani all ruled despite opposition, while a wealth of
African queens, female rulers and rebels have had their histories virtually expunged from common knowledge. At just twenty years old,
Juana Galan successfully lead the women of her village against Napoleon’s troops, an action which ultimately caused the French to abandon her home province of La Mancha.
Women played a major part in the Mexican revolution, too,
much like modern women across Africa and the Middle East, while the Irish revolutionary, suffragette and politician
Constance Markievicz, when asked to provide other women with fashion advice,
famously replied that they should
“Dress suitably in short skirts and strong boots, leave your jewels in the bank, and buy a revolver.” More recently still, in WWII, New Zealander
Nancy Wake served as a leading French resistance fighter: known to the Gestapo as the White Mouse, she once killed an SS sentry with her bare hands and took command of a maquis unit when their male commander died in battle. Elsewhere during the same conflict,
Irena Sendler survived both torture and a Nazi death sentence to smuggle some 2,500 Jewish children safely out of the Warsaw ghetto, for which she was nominated for a Nobel peace prize in 2007.
I could go on. As exhaustive as this information might seem, it barely scratches the surface. But as limited an overview as these paragraphs present, they should still be sufficient to make one very simple point: that even in highly prejudicial settings supposedly based on real human societies, trying to to argue that women, POC and/or LGBTQ persons can’t so much as wield even small amounts of power in the narrative, let alone exist as autonomous individuals without straining credulity to the breaking point, is the
exact polar opposite of historically accurate writing.
And I don't know if comparing oppression done by social institutions with comparing oppression done by-- social groups that was supposed to be 'equal' is a prudent thing to do.
No matter how you choose to look at it, it's discrimination against men - just like the fact that black people receive longer sentences than white people is discrimination against the former.
I'm not challenging it. Again, your criticism here is fair-- there's a lot feminism (or, to be exact,
white feminism) could do to be more inclusive.
Perhaps I wasn't being entirely clear. "Women are fragile and innocent little flowers in need of protection" was meant as a description of how women are seen by the "patriarchy" - not of how they're seen by feminists.
Ah, thanks for the clarification.
When someone is truly oppressed, it's always possible to come up with clear and undeniable evidence that they are. Instead of simply telling me that my views are ignorant you ought to explain to me why it is you think women are being oppressed, and depending on what you come up with, I'll either counter your arguments or admit defeat and accept that you were right.
Um okay if we want to talk about the important things I can very much offer a lot of things based on one publication only (
who is well known for their lack of inclusivity,
for one thing,
so I don't think they talk about ALL problems patriarchy gives to people across the world)
Or if you want to talk about less important and more subtle but nonetheless influential things like culture,
sure?
On the (roughly) span of two months. :|
Also,
this site.
And I haven't included men. /ugh One element of patriarchy and the current gender values now is that men is considered 'the default gender'; and thus the influence 'maleness' has to their situation ain't been seen a lot.
Does it say anything in particular? I have no idea. Surely the problems of the world are much more than this; more vicious, pointless, ruthless, cruel, prejudiced. Notice how a lot of these problems are set in the US.
But notice how much of these problems have a much more blatant gender component inside it. (Wage gap and workplace discrimination, for instance. They may be made by performance but how much of these are connected by the idea that 'girls cannot do science-y stuff).
Again, this is NOT a Misery Olympics, and I do agree with you that one side being oppressed or prejudiced does not mean the other isn't. Men suffers too-- but acknowledging the difference is important for solving both. I also personally believe that the answer is inclusivity-- to -include- men. not (as some people out there seems to imply) to -stop- women's work, under the assumption that 'feminism = men gets ignored waah waaah'; forget that women experienced more imbalance due to their gender.
Where I live, wages are determined by negotiations between unions representing employers and employees of specific industries, and there is full transparency. There simply is no pay gap. Sexual harrassment exists (towards both men and women, I should add), but it's a problem that's being dealt with. Filing a complaint is easy and straightforward, and if you do, it'll always be taken seriously.
That is wonderful! Where do you live, if I may ask? Is GLBTQ rights upheld there? *sparkly eyes*
Unfortunately the case is not universal >,<; AFAIK the US has one, Japan has one, China has one, my country never seemed to do a research on wage... :|
But I can see your point, especially in relation to suicide rates.
I know that feminism as an ideology is actively opposing the cultural norms that prevent men from seeking help when they need it, but what's needed is not a lecture on patriarchy - it's helplines, shelters, and crisis centers. Unfortunately, the attempts to establish those have not exactly received a warm welcome by any feminist media outlets I know of.Many non-feminist publications have indeed touched upon the subject of male suicide, but any serious attempt at tackling the problem has been thwarted by the feminist movement.
Yes and no-- I think?
As far as incentives for helplines and shelters and crisis centers-- that's important indeed. But why limit it for men, when women and GLBTQ peers are also at risk for that?
(we need to tackle at first the cultural norms and stigma against men to be emotional, or the idea that 'men are never abused / raped')
The less than warm reception is, I believe, related to the very simple idea of economy; "look, you have limited means, and you choose to support men !?!?!?!?" And it depends on many things; are gender relations much better in one country, for instance (For a country like the US to create shelters for male domestic violence shelter would be very, very different compared to, say, Finland).
And to some extent as much as your criticism is fair, the feminists also has a grain of truth; The way I see it the current politics is mostly between people trying to force their interest under a limited amount of resources, and generally speaking in geographical terms, women so far had it rougher than men, in terms of financial and security and sometimes even emotional and social aspects..
mind explaining more?
;
