Gay Marriage: Yes or No
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Altruistic Muse
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Haha! Man that is pretty harsh, considering Slant's opinion is based on fact and yours is subjective!
T
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Everybody's opinion is subjective.
Like Slant said, there is no universal right or wrong.
Pristinegirl
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I don't think there is a universal right or wrong Miss. I just think that there is a higher degree of wrong in what you say, as you are ignorant and ignore the FACT that there is an emotion called Love and that it is the basis for marriage whether it is Civil Union or religious...
Why the hell would two people undergo a civil union for the sake of 'RIGHTS' without love?
I can bring it. I choose my words carefully. I don't just throw them around without knowing exactly what I'm saying... Haha what are you saying, you want an objective verifiable truth from me? when you yourself defend religion the most subjective one of all??!?
Altruistic Muse
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No you misunderstood my argument. I was saying that, as religion becomes increasingly unimportant in current society, people are phasing out religious institutions and acts themselves. This is something that they are able to do superficially, but which does not change the overall and original purpose behind marriage as being a religious one. You can call fire water and if you continue to do that it might just catch on. Doesn't make it fire any the less though. Marriage is religious and as long as the church has control of that, and does things in the way of the bible, we cannot make changes. If liberalisation continues, I'm not saying it is impossible. but this will not be following the rules in the bible so would be leaning towards civil union anyway. The point of marriage is religious. No one should get married in a church if they do not want a religious partnership. This includes gay people, which it specifically says in the bible is not agreed with in christianity (as an example), therefore, until the bible is changed or atheists run the church, gay people should not legitimately marry in a church. And as I said, non-religious "marriage" should simply be called civil union, for everyone.
Altruistic Muse
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But Slant's not really stating an opinion on gay marriage, just that the bible doesn't agree with it, and religious people who run the church believe this so don't allow it. That's as it is, and no one is saying it is right or wrong, it's just a fact. I myself am not saying it's right or wrong, or even that religion is right or wrong, I'm aware its incredibly subjective! I'm just saying that as of yet it's beyond the power of the layman to change the rules of the church.
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Some people would marry without this 'love' purely for legal benefits, it's a matter of preference. Green cards for foriegners, people who want to split rent and tax, being legally recognized as a couple and given rights that adhere to that, etc.
But your fixation on love has led you to completely ignore my points. I don't care whether the said people love each other or not- that's irrelevant. We're talking about gay marriages and conflicts between religious people and the government that is causing such contraversy.
T
The Jester
So atheists can get married in the church, but GOD FORBID if gays would marry.
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Altruistic Muse
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Again, you didn't really read my point! I just said that in my opinion it's all the same! If you want a religious partnership get married in a church. If you don't believe in God, or if you do but the Church doesn't support your lifestyle ,get a civil union. And then give marriages and civil unions the same rights. That's I think the fairest solution but it's a long way off as far as I can see.
Quinlan
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If you have a poor argument, just increase your volume. You are sure to win then!
Altruistic Muse
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Fixed.
But marriage sounds so much nicer!
Hehe, agreed. More romanticised maybe. The government should set about making civil union more attractive to couples in that way. People do dream of getting married not "civilly united" lol
Pristinegirl
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Oh Wow, I see no logic in your logic!. See marriage under the law is quite NEW!! A 'common-law Marriage' is not even synonymous with or considered to be a 'marriage' but instead it is a 'domestic partnership'!!!! So your point fails again.
I'm not fixed on Love. And yes we are talking about gay marriages, but your loosely and wrong definition of what a marriage is makes this discussion take wrong turns.
Divorce and unfaithfulness has nothing to do with love. It shouldnt even be mentioned in the same sentence.
I have a hard time respecting that you disagree actually. An illusion you say? - Elaborate!!Can you honestly say that their is no emotion called love? You never loved a parent or your cat or even yourself?
If not then perhaps there lies a deep distortion in both of you two in which I feel deeply sorry for.
- Life without love is like a tree without blossoms or fruit.
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I'm not sure if to take that as a personal attack, seeing as my MBTI is stated ST.
But regardless of that, what I'm talking about with marriage is in fact the legal rights. Is it possible to be married legally with no legal benefits of that partnership? If so, I wasn't aware. I thought that we were talking about marriage in the legal context because I didn't know that a non-legal form of marriage existed. If this is the case, then gays technically can be married because marriage isn't considered to have any laws backing them, that's 'domestic partnerships' which is what gays cannot have.
I've never met someone who's married but not under some sort of legal system, because it seems you were implying in earlier arguements that religion has nothing to do with marriage- if so, why would someone get married if there were no legal rights backing it and no religious rights behind it?
Marriage has symbolism in legalities and religious beliefs, and without those reasons, two people together is simply 'coupling' and not considered a marriage.
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We must both agree that love is an emotion right? As an emotion and due to our nature nothing can last forever. Sure, I have felt love before towards another person: my cat, my parents etc etc but all things are not permanent because they either transform into an another emotion or it just disappears altogether. I'm not saying that love doesn't exist but it's one of those things that you cannot grasp in your hands forever which in essence is just an illusion. It's like saying that you can keep water forever. YOu can touch it for a few moments but it never endures in your hands.
If you're in love I recommend that you enjoy it while you can but keep in mind that everything that comes to arise shall cease to exist.
haha! I was sitting back reading and eating popcorn, im not getting involved! I think this is a lets agree to disagree scenario, but dont let me stop you............(goes back to get popcorn)