Gender identity

[TomarctusHU]

Hi!
Another selfish, and maybe unnecessary thread, that might have a potential to be interesting, and bugs my mind these days...

If we talk about gender we typically mean the biological gender, and we have a sociological gender too.
To begin with, I can't really understand why it's called 'sociological' gender, but that's probably my bad because I don't care so much about others gender, nor the associated roles. I know, it's to naive to think that in 2011 such thing like gender doesn't matters, and many of you might have bad experiences with this.

Is your guys gender identity the same as your biological gender?
I'm not sure about my gender identity at all... Either neither female/male or both. I mean, my personality is more feminine (Tests give me around 25/75 male/female results, not like I wouldn't have known this earlier.), and I love cute things, but I don't have any problem with my body as a man (Well, If could look only a little more cute... ), and I like dogs more. (Not sure if it's relevant, but my sisters like cats so who knows...) I would tip on neither, not like it matters much.

How much does gender matters these days? (Except in relationships.) Does it simply depend on where you live, and what you do?
What do you think, would it 'scare' other people away (I heard that some most girls don't mind it, what about guys? Would it be a turn-off?), if I would give a little more space to my more girly side? (Nothing serious, just growing my hair ( I saw some nice male hairstyles not long ago...), and a few new, less serious clothes, with some other colour than white/brown, and a nice piece of pendant would be nice too...)
How much can I actually be myself publicly in this?

 

[Faye]

I don't know where you live or what exactly you're planning to do, but in my experience, people feel like they own your body and well give you hell if you dress or act in a way not in accord with your gender. At least, this was the case with me having long hair and a girl I knew having short hair- we were both pressured into being appropriate.

Biological gender is 'sex', and sociological gender is what people generally mean when they say 'gender'. Obviously, sociological gender is entirely made up and is stupid. If women want to 'act like men' or men want to 'act like women', that should be their right, but like I said, people feel like they own others and will give them hell for not acting what they consider to be appropriately.

I personally like women who act and dress 'girly', and women who don't do this are a bit of a turn off (basically women who are gender neutral or who act like men). I personally don't identify fully with the supposed male gender role, but it is mostly an intellectual dispute because I feel like being male in the U.S. today is somewhat synonymous with being lazy, piggish, emotionally retarded, inter-personally deficient, and stupid.


I've decided to be egotistical though by deciding that I am the definition of man. If I do it, it is manly.


I wish you luck on your endeavors however you want to dress or act, but be prepared for people to give you a hard time if you go too far.

 

[aerosol]

This thread is not unnecessary.
From what I've learned, sex is what you're born as, and gender is what you feel and know you are. Most of the time the two will agree with one another, but not always.
May I ask - do you either feel 1) like a girly guy, or 2) that you were born a guy but you feel really female on the inside and now has to make the gender identity of a male work for you? (or 3) neither?)
Personally, I'm not arrogant enough to care whether a guy is into typically "girly" interests or "guyish" interests.
I think the idea here is that if you question your assigned birth gender it's possible that you might be transgendered. Just throwing that out there. Or you could be what they label "androgynous".

 

[donkeybals]

I think gender roles are as important now, as then. Given, it's 2011 and women and men have equal rights and equal opportunities. But as a human race we are adapting, and our minds as humans adapt probably more slowly. If we are still around a million years from now, I'd be really interested how our bodies will have adapted to our new enviorments.

The thing though is, a lot of social norms have adapted, and our enviorments, yet our bodies and minds have some "catching up to do". Most women, by nature, are nurturers. Thousands of years ago, where the internet and our vast networking was non existence, men were the hunters and women were nesters. Obvious attributes are that men are way more physical and aggressive than females. And women are far more nurturing than men. From a general view point. Yet now, with the whole "equal rights things" and certain norms have been throwing things way out of wack. If a woman were to get out of line when there were no "police", men, the alpha ones for the most part, would put them back into line. But today's norm, it's generally uncalled for a man to get physical with a woman when she's not behaving appropriately. And this throws a lot a lot of things out of wack. It was always up to the men to lead, and women to follow. Women offer very valuable input, but things really get screwed up when you grant a woman complete control in a working enviorment. I've had some great female bosses, don't get me wrong, but girls can get out of line more frequently, and men are way more emotionally stable. Women and men balance eachother out perfectly, but it's not in a woman's nature to lead groups, they'd at least need a male wing man to be most effective. And of course, they wouldn't work out the best in a cut throat enviorment. You ever play a game of basketball and a couple of girls sitting on the sideline come in and start trying to join. What happens? The game is a lot less cut throat, and usually the game is ruined within the next minute or two. Unless the girls are really butch. There's exceptions to every rule, but from a general standpoint this usually is all too true.

Also, I hate how most norms call people with this type of conscience recognizition "sexist". It's obvious men and women are built differently. Think differently. Act differently. Imo.

 

[sopphey]

I think 'gender difference' is just another society cage labeling us to be one thing or another. I'm a woman biologically and psychologically but often times I'm told that "I am manly." Especially, in matters of business and rational.

Also, the whole by nature thing is just a trend of the eons. Yes, in nature estrogen the 'female hormone' is more feminine than testorene but that doesn't mean that there weren't/aren't a whole bunch of men who are better at nurturing and being feminine. Just means that over the thousands of years of existance women have fallen into the role of being "nurturing, motherly, soft, meak."

A man who considers himself a man biologically, psychologically, and societally can be as nurturing or even More nurturing then a woman.

It's in my opinion, a wholistic view of gender and humans. We are what we are and crossing gender differences is norm.

Like donkeybals says "...men and women are built differently. Think differently. Act Differently."

Accepting what makes you "You," comes first. Then all you have to do is find someone who can accept you, too. You should be yourself and as long as you're yourself in a safe environment (where everyone accepts you for You) life will be grand!

 

[TomarctusHU]

If women want to 'act like men' or men want to 'act like women', that should be their right, but like I said, people feel like they own others and will give them hell for not acting what they consider to be appropriately.

Thanks for the reply.
Yup, I'm perfectly aware of this. Thankfully (?) right now I don't have to care about this too much, I will maybe take my time and test the 'threshold' of my surroundings. And hold it back at 'dangerous areas'. (job interview, exams, etc... )
Always acting according to others is annoying.

I personally don't identify fully with the supposed male gender role, but it is mostly an intellectual dispute because I feel like being male in the U.S. today is somewhat synonymous with being lazy, piggish, emotionally retarded, inter-personally deficient, and stupid.

Lol, but true.

This thread is not unnecessary. /* Thanks. */
From what I've learned, sex is what you're born as, and gender is what you feel and know you are. Most of the time the two will agree with one another, but not always.
May I ask - do you either feel 1) like a girly guy, or 2) that you were born a guy but you feel really female on the inside and now has to make the gender identity of a male work for you? (or 3) neither?)

I'm a guy, and I'm girly, these are facts, but do I feel like a guy or girl? I don't know... How does it feels to be a guy or a girl? Either 1) or 3), it depends on the perspective.
But I may have generally 'trouble' with genders, as I'm not really interested in the gender of my partners either..?

Accepting what makes you "You," comes first. Then all you have to do is find someone who can accept you, too. You should be yourself and as long as you're yourself in a safe environment (where everyone accepts you for You) life will be grand!

Thanks! Right now I'm not that optimistic about this, but it's worth a try.

 

[sopphey]

Thanks! Right now I'm not that optimistic about this, but it's worth a try.

It's like I tell my friends who come to me for advice on being them. You can do it! Why bother feeling like a girl or guy when you can be You? Being You is way more cooler (well in my world perspective) than being either or. Same with liking either gender. Why bother with linking either a girl or boy when you can like them both?

No boundaries!

 

[jimtaylor]

Gender roles are useless, just live how you want to. People will judge but it really doesn't matter to me. I like who I am and there is no substitute for confidence.

 

[aerosol]

I'm a guy, and I'm girly, these are facts, but do I feel like a guy or girl? I don't know... How does it feels to be a guy or a girl? Either 1) or 3), it depends on the perspective.
But I may have generally 'trouble' with genders, as I'm not really interested in the gender of my partners either..?

You sound androgynous to me. From what I've noticed, to most people it will be obvious what gender they feel like. It is obvious to me and I can't quite explain why. I just KNOW that I'm female.
I do think quite a few people have difficulties "living up" to what is expected of their assigned gender, and I think it's cool that people are different and all, so hopefully you'll feel comfortable in however you want to present yourself.
However, seems like people generally fail to see that there are distinct differences between being male and being female. We ARE different, and that's okay. Gender is not a social construction or some kind of fabrication. People who think otherwise seem to usually be the minority who themselves don't fit into the roles.

 

[invisible]

You sound androgynous to me. From what I've noticed, to most people it will be obvious what gender they feel like. It is obvious to me and I can't quite explain why. I just KNOW that I'm female.
I do think quite a few people have difficulties "living up" to what is expected of their assigned gender, and I think it's cool that people are different and all, so hopefully you'll feel comfortable in however you want to present yourself.
However, seems like people generally fail to see that there are distinct differences between being male and being female. We ARE different, and that's okay. Gender is not a social construction or some kind of fabrication. People who think otherwise seem to usually be the minority who themselves don't fit into the roles.

i myself find that it is always best to ignore people with differing opinions.
their defiance invariably originates in very deep and conflicted insecurities.

 

[Nixie]

The difference between gender as part of identity and gender as defining your role in life? Generalizations exist because it gives us the ability to sketch/flesh out ideas and concepts and definitions about things/people/ideas with one or two words. The word man or male brings about specific culturally learned/created ideas. For the most part, labels can be limiting but only if you insist on living your life within the confines of like a 3rd grade understanding. Learning about others and yourself is work and if you don't take the time and energy to define your world and be comfortable with it, you are doomed to give that power to others or societal generalities. I always thought it was so strange that our idea of man/men/male doesn't allow for the idea that they are profoundly emotional as well as all the other stuff like strong and such. Some of the most romantic, make you tear up--songs. movies, books. poetry--has come from the souls of men.

 

[jimtaylor]

The difference between gender as part of identity and gender as defining your role in life? Generalizations exist because it gives us the ability to sketch/flesh out ideas and concepts and definitions about things/people/ideas with one or two words. The word man or male brings about specific culturally learned/created ideas. For the most part, labels can be limiting but only if you insist on living your life within the confines of like a 3rd grade understanding. Learning about others and yourself is work and if you don't take the time and energy to define your world and be comfortable with it, you are doomed to give that power to others or societal generalities. I always thought it was so strange that our idea of man/men/male doesn't allow for the idea that they are profoundly emotional as well as all the other stuff like strong and such. Some of the most romantic, make you tear up--songs. movies, books. poetry--has come from the souls of men.

+1

What you say is easier said than done though. I am lucky just by the fact that I was born as big as I am, which made it so that I was not picked on much at all during my younger schooling days for being sensitive. Like the woman of the 20's, it is hard to break what has become the social norm. Once it becomes ingrained into society it