Generation Gap

[MindYourHead]

Although I deleted the post, if you read the post as it was worded, my point was not that anyone should not work hard or earn their living (defined as pay their dues). My point was that people need to listen sometimes, and not discount someone's view or perspective simply because they were young. And it's BS to say that someone doesn't have credibility if they don't pay their dues. Who gets to decide whose paid their dues? If you have wisdom, knowledge, and insight that someone can benefit from, you shouldn't be told to shut if because some insecure person decides they shouldn't have to listen to someone who supposedly hasn't gone through or done as much as they have. That's just jealousy. Regardless of age, you can learn things from anyone in this world if you're observant and pay attention. I've listened my ear off to supposedly experienced and worldly older adults who are arrogant and only interested in tooting their own horns and putting themselves on a pedestal rather than taking the time to listen and learn from others. The "pay your dues" argument is often used to simply discount someone's opinion because they feel threatened by what they have to say or want to feel better about themselves so they find something to put someone else down to make them feel superior. And if someone does pay their "dues", there's always someone else to say it's still not good enough and find some reason to discredit.

I knew what you meant, and agree with you. I may not have worded my post correctly, and went off in another direction with it, but meant to say I knew where you were coming from and I felt it was unfair when I wasn't listened to back then.

 

[MindYourHead]

Yes I do see the paralysis that you speak off. The need for direction. I think that the world has become more uncertain for your generation all the way around. You deal with things I never did. It would never have crossed my mind that another student would bring a gun to school and kill people. I was never afraid that I would be abducted and ran all over my neighborhood like a hooligan.

It was a huge deal when someone brought a knife to school! Never did the thought of a gun cross my mind.
When I was in high school, they didn't lock the doors to keep bad paople out, but rather in an attempt to keep us from cutting class to go smoke weed in the nearby woods. Seems so quaint now.

 

[La Sagna]

Although I deleted the post, if you read the post as it was worded, my point was not that anyone should not work hard or earn their living (defined as pay their dues). My point was that people need to listen sometimes, and not discount someone's view or perspective simply because they were young. And it's BS to say that someone doesn't have credibility if they don't pay their dues. Who gets to decide whose paid their dues? If you have wisdom, knowledge, and insight that someone can benefit from, you shouldn't be told to shut if because some insecure person decides they shouldn't have to listen to someone who supposedly hasn't gone through or done as much as they have. That's just jealousy. Regardless of age, you can learn things from anyone in this world if you're observant and pay attention. I've listened my ear off to supposedly experienced and worldly older adults who are arrogant and only interested in tooting their own horns and putting themselves on a pedestal rather than taking the time to listen and learn from others. The "pay your dues" argument is often used to simply discount someone's opinion because they feel threatened by what they have to say or want to feel better about themselves so they find something to put someone else down to make them feel superior. And if someone does pay their "dues", there's always someone else to say it's still not good enough and find some reason to discredit.

I agree with you that some older people just dismiss anybody younger as not having enough experience to be listened to and that is completely wrong and being older doesn't necessarily make you wiser.
I had to comment though because I find sometimes that older people who are fairly wise and well-meaning get unfairly interpreted in a negative way by younger people when what they are saying may be helpful and is not intended to dismiss or criticize the younger person.
There is no excuse for anybody treating another person in an unfair or derogatory way, whether it is because the person is younger or older, but I can tell you that with every decade that I have lived I have learned a great deal. Even though I thought I was quite wise in my 20s and in my 30s I look back now and I can see that I was quite naive. I have no doubt that in 10 years and 20 years I will look back and think the same about me now. That doesn't apply to everybody of course, but people who are self-aware and have worked on improving themselves can have some pretty valuable insights. So I don't think older people's experience should be dismissed either.

I just wish people didn't get so easily offended when others of any age want to share some personal insight.

 

[Gaze]

I agree with you that some older people just dismiss anybody younger as not having enough experience to be listened to and that is completely wrong and being older doesn't necessarily make you wiser.
I had to comment though because I find sometimes that older people who are fairly wise and well-meaning get unfairly interpreted in a negative way by younger people when what they are saying may be helpful and is not intended to dismiss or criticize the younger person.
There is no excuse for anybody treating another person in an unfair or derogatory way, whether it is because the person is younger or older, but I can tell you that with every decade that I have lived I have learned a great deal. Even though I thought I was quite wise in my 20s and in my 30s I look back now and I can see that I was quite naive. I have no doubt that in 10 years and 20 years I will back and think the same about me now. That doesn't apply to everybody of course, but people who are self-aware and have worked on improving themselves can have some pretty valuable insights. So I don't think older people's experience should be dismissed either.

I just wish people didn't get so easily offended when others of any age want to share some personal insight.

This is what i was getting at. I teach people from 16 to 60 so I do a lot of listening and I am always happy to hear and learn from other people's experiences regardless of age. Unfortunately, the favor is rarely returned and i'm in my 30s. So, to me it's always a given to listen, observe, and learn from others as much as I can especially as an educator. I've always been curious about people who are from different backgrounds and experiences than I am. However, too often I find people are only interested in having someone reflect how they feel or think rather than actually make some effort to listen to what the other person has to say. It's a major problem in our culture. What bothers me most is when someone uses age to justify not listening. In my case, I'm probably more likely to listen than to speak. Education has already taught me that the more you know the more you realize you don't know. Unfortunately, people are too often looking for someone to do the listening but refuse to listen themselves. Or they think they know the answer or what someone feels, so feel they don't have to bother listen. That's the point I wanted to stress.

 

[La Sagna]

I have to add that I treat people's personal experiences with great respect, because it doesn't matter the age or what the experience exactly is nobody except a person who has gone through something very similar can understand.

So, if a young person has been through a certain experience that I haven't, such as being physically abused or being fired from a job, or being in a serious car accident, etc.. to me their viewpoint on that type of experience is valuable and cannot be questionned because who am I to understand something that I haven't experienced.

My mom died when I was 34 and I know some people in their 70s who's parents are still alive so I have more experience as to what it is like to lose a parent. I know some people who had a parent that died when they were children. I will never know what that is like because the circumstances they lived through is something that I have never lived through.

The older the people are the more experiences they tend to have had so their insight on the particular experiences they have lived to me is very valuable, but being older doesn't give them more perspective on expreriences they haven't personally lived.

 

[La Sagna]

This is what i was getting at. I teach people from 16 to 60 so I do a lot of listening and I am always happy to hear and learn from other people's experiences regardless of age. Unfortunately, the favor is rarely returned and i'm in my 30s. So, to me it's always a given to listen, observe, and learn from others as much as I can especially as an educator. I've always been curious about people who are from different backgrounds and experiences than I am. However, too often I find people are only interested in having someone reflect how they feel or think rather than actually make some effort to listen to what the other person has to say. It's a major problem in our culture. What bothers me most is when someone uses age to justify not listening. In my case, I'm probably more likely to listen than to speak. Education has already taught me that the more you know the more you realize you don't know. Unfortunately, people are too often looking for someone to do the listening but refuse to listen themselves. Or they think they know the answer or what someone feels, so that decide they don't have to bother listen. That's the point I wanted to stress.

The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.

Socrates

It's too bad that your experience has been so negative. I personally have seen it more from young people dismissing older people, but I think it definitely depends on the personalities.

I saw something recently where young mothers were really upset when older mothers told them to 'enjoy the time with their kids because it goes by so fast' and I was shocked that that would be upsetting to them. They saw it as a criticism somehow because they don't always enjoy their kids and I just see it as words of encouragement. That's the type of stuff I just don't get.

I have to admit though that I have told my sons that they have no idea what it is like to be a mother so that they shouldn't be telling me what mothers are supposed to do .

 

[Eventhorizon]

That's the thing... I don't know. I don't know what the repercussions for any given mistake could/would be, or whether it could be fixed. I know nothing about the organizational structure of my workplace. So any time I'm faced with the decision of trial-and-error or "do nothing and wait until someone can help," I don't know which option is better.




I don't quite see how this is relevant. No matter the job, there are lots of things that could go wrong short of lives being threatened. An oversight could result in loss of money or any number of other serious setbacks. And, like I said before, I'm unduly fearful of punishment due to my personal history. I'm already aware of that fact.

Ok. Well I was just trying to get an idea what was going on there. If you said you were an air traffic controller (high stress job with people lives in your hands) that would be one thing.

As it is, anything else dont worry about it. So what if something you do loses millions of dollars? If you are doing your job legally and doing it to the best of your ability, thats all anyone can ask. Now, if you do lose millions you probably wont have a job for long, but thats ok too. Just find another one. The point is this, if you are scared something is going to happen to the point you let it rule your life, you will likely cause it to happen just for that reason alone.

Know your job and then do it. Dont worry about making mistakes, everyone does it and they learn from them.

If you dont like that advice you dont have to listen to it.

 

[the]

I was born in 79 and I feel like what were the baby boomers and all the people before then working for? Some one has to enjoy all the good things we've accumulated and I volunteer for the job.

 

[Gaze]

It's too bad that your experience has been so negative. I personally have seen it more from young people dismissing older people, but I think it definitely depends on the personalities.

i don't process this as a negative experience but as something that is going to be more difficult for people to learn if they don't get over their biases or assumptions about who people are and whether they should be heard. Almost everyday in my class, I see young people who are sometimes afraid to speak probably because they've been told too often by adults that they're young and probably haven't accomplished anything yet to be heard, yet when they speak, they are quite insightful. They are afraid to speak but they don't want to make a mistake because they've seen that in their school experience only the "right" answer is rewarded and heard. I learn so much from them especially when they share their personal stories and experiences every year. The reality is that as a society we have a bad habit which we don't want to break but which is affecting our ability to learn from each other. It's fairly simple, we need to value listening and understanding and not just having our voices heard.

 

[La Sagna]

Last summer I took a university philosophy course called 'The Meaning of Life' with mostly 18 year olds I think and one gentleman who I believe was also in his 40s. There were a couple of pretty bright kids who participated with some good insight but I have to admit the class discussions were dominated by the older gentleman and myself, simply because the themes of 'existential crisis' resonated with us more at our age. I would never be dismissive of anybody but I did kind of secretly feel like they're insight was more limited (self-disclosure of personal bias). The older gentleman told me a story about one of his other classes where one young woman came in late and apologized while proceeding to explain that the reason she was late was because her mom hadn't washed her clothes. I guess that sort of stuff kind of contributes to the biases that we have at times.

 

[La Sagna]

I was born in 79 and I feel like what were the baby boomers and all the people before then working for? Some one has to enjoy all the good things we've accumulated and I volunteer for the job.

Apparently the Baby Boomers are spending all their kid's inheritance instead of saving it like their parents did. Go figure!

 

[isabellajay]

I'm in the teen generation and I'll be real, I'm ashamed of my generation. I hate HATE LOATHE Instagram and what it's done with teenage girls. Parents give their children smart phones earlier and earlier and they get connected with the social world earlier and earlier. There's some potential in us. But our obsession with ourselves makes me really sad and rather pessimistic.

 

[Gaze]

My view is not that generational differences don't exist and that it's as simple or as easy as everyone will be able to totally relate on any level. That's misguided and unrealistic. People will likely better relate and understand those from their own backgrounds, generations, and experiences. That's a given. The thing is it's going to be tough to relate to people if you keep comparing them to you. IT'S NOT A COMPETITION. A young person of 18's view (depending on who you are) will never completely be completely measure up to or be completely understandable to a person of 50 because they are from different generations and grew up with difference social, cultural, and political experiences. That's normal. Thinking of someone as less because of these differences is unproductive. Been there, done that. Realized it was not the best way to approach things.

 

[La Sagna]

A young person of 18's view (depending on who you are) will never completely be completely measure up to or be completely understandable to a person of 50 because they are from different generations and grew up with difference social, cultural, and political experiences.

I can't relate to most people in my own generation. There are no doubt some 18 year olds I can relate to better than many in their 40s. I think it depends on the individual.

 

[Stu]

I find it hard to relate to anyone regardless of their age or social stature. (most people think I am dick)

 

[Gaze]

I can't relate to most people in my own generation. There are no doubt some 18 year olds I can relate to better than many in their 40s. I think it depends on the individual.

yeah, you're right, it depends on the person. At the end of the day, I think it's more reliable to relate to the person not just their social category. For example, I find that it's tough to relate to many people mostly because of cultural backgrounds rather than generational differences. I see this everyday, the tendency to be quite dismissive of a particular view because it's not a popular or common view in the dominant or mainstream culture. Yet, those views are very significant and a key part of a culture elsewhere. For me, it's sometimes easier not to share or speak because i'd have to explain too much of my cultural background to help someone understand the reasons for my perspective. What's a simple and taken for granted/common sense view in one culture is a completely foreign idea to another. So, yeah, it varies. The young/older people of one culture are not the same in another. I know that when I was 16, my mindset is quite different than the average 16 year old, less experienced in some ways, and more serious than the average in others. I'm sure many have similar experiences of this as well.

 

[knight in battle]

Older generations are easier to deal with, because they've found themselves.

Younger generations are more informative, because their identities are bound to current norms while also aware of the norms of previous generations.

 

[isabellajay]

[MENTION=933]Seraphim[/MENTION] After I posted, I realized that I'd said that parents are allowing their children to have the device. But what is it about the current generation of parents that makes them feel they must give their children whatever they want? I'm not saying this is true for everyone, but I do see it more than I used to - parents are obsessed with their children being the best, and this leads the children to believe they are. When I was in 9th grade, if you had a cell phone or a Facebook, it was a big deal. My best friend's younger sister is 12 years old and has an iPhone, every social media account possible, and the biggest attitude (and her little group of friends are all the same way). She does stuff I'd have never tried with my parents. I am appalled by it. She was so cute 4 years ago.

I'm with you all the way on what you said. I guess if we're going to point fingers, it should be at producers and executives.
Also, I really liked Disney growing up. I can't even watch it anymore. It is disgusting.

GAH! I'm getting all angry and I'm about ready to punch someone.

P.S. I'm still mad at all the people my age who make fun of me because I don't participate in social media. Even worse is when someone says, "Oh. That's so indie of you. It's like a cleanse, right? I thought about deactivating my Twitter for a while, but..."

 

[Faye]

The older someone is, the more uncomfortable I am interacting with them. I feel like older people expect more formal interaction that I just never learned. I'm always worried about accidentally offending them as a result.

To make matters worse, it seems like a lot of old people never really updated their ways of thinking to the present era. A 30 year old will be fine, but 50+ probably not (there are some exceptions).

 

[Faye]

I run into this occasionally with older people that I know asking me questions like "You still have that same job? You mean to tell me you went to college for four years and you're still doing that for a living?" They'll say these things in front of other people almost like they're trying to shame me. They're retired, so it's like they have no idea how bad the economy is, or the job outlook for college graduates. Not to mention they know nothing about my situation.

There was this one man, who we'd never met before, who started interrogating my boyfriend in front of a group of people. "What did you go to college for? Man, you made a mistake, it's hard to get a job doing that. Where do you work now? Ah, see what I mean? You should have gone to college for ______ or _____ instead. What? You wanted to follow your passion? P'shaw..."

Luckily, I think these types of people are exceptions to the rule.

The majority of people who have college degrees end up with jobs that don't require a college degree nowadays; however, they had to have a college degree in order to get the job because they were most likely competing with other people who have college degrees for that job. I have had similar embarrassing experiences with old people critiquing my choices. They were incredibly condescending.