Good & Evil non-existent as it is currently

Sithious said:
Obviously some will argue that there are no evil acts, as yourself, that doesn't mean that certain acts aren't evil. [...] but once you encounter what some experience every day, you'll certainly not say evil is subjective...
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Define evil.
 
Personally, I don't think there is evil. Only suffering and what causes it.
 
It's hard not to relate any one action back to a person's code of conduct.
Personally I've always treated the word evil as a measure of how bad I think an action, etc is.

But I'd say the most pure form of evil is setting out to do so. If the one who is responsible for the action admits it is evil (whether openly or just to one's self) then it is probably evil. Even if others may not view the action as all that evil, it doesn't change the fact that the person in question identifies their actions as being so and purposefully inflicted them.

Anyway I'm not a person to say good is good and evil is evil. There are both positives and negatives to any action. I guess its a question of, if the negatives outway the possitives is it evil? And even so what is negative for one person is a positive for another.

So I'd say the definition of good and evil can only ever be measured on majority perception, and then it is based on what actions the majority of us like and dislike and to what intensity.
 
Obviously some will argue that there are no evil acts, as yourself, that doesn't mean that certain acts aren't evil. Some people might not comprehend that some individuals deliberately does evil acts, they enjoy the suffering of others. And yes these individuals exists, to the highest degree, infact I almost walked that path myself. And we're not talking about giving someone a wedgy, we're talking about ending someones life for the sake of hate, suffering and personal enjoyment.

These individuals have other sides aswell ofc, but once you encounter what some experience every day, you'll certainly not say evil is subjective...
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Good and evil are a matter of religious and social perspective. It depends to what the majority in any society considers "right" and "wrong".

Examples:1) Infidelity. If you are married and your wife has been loyal to you for, say, 10 years, if you cheat on her repeatedly, with personal pleasure in mind, then those around you will consider you evil, and, if not evil, they will think you're doing the wrong thing.
That is, if you're living in a WESTERN christian society. Cause if you're a muslim, you can have 2 wives, and the whole idea of infidelity looses it's meaning.

2) Suicide. If you kill yourself because you can't bear the burden of shame, for example, people in western society will consider you weak. Some will even say that you deserved to die, and that you are burning in hell as an evil person. Others will consider you selfish, because you thought only of yourself, and left those around you to suffer. But, if you lived in japan, then you would be considered an extremely honorable person.

3) Murder or sadism. Today, both of these ideas are considered evil, almost globally. Thousands of years ago, pharaohs could kill anyone without ever being considered evil when doing so. Or, during the dark ages, people died in extremely sadistic ways, since they were considered "evil" by the church, and the act of killing them was considered noble.


My point being that what is evil depends on the social concept surrounding the act, the nature of society in which the act is performed and the religious beliefs of that said society. It does not depend on the act itself. There is nothing beyond that, and evil and good are created ideas, whose concept may easily change in the future. Therefore, morality is relative and we can only speak about good an evil when we live in the same society and have accepted the same laws and moral codes. In that case, morality is not subjective, because it is dictated by the standards of that society, and therefore we can say that there are absolute moral values.
 
Except what of the ones who aren't religious, and don't conform to social concepts? :m071:
 
Ookami said:
Except what of the ones who aren't religious, and don't conform to social concepts? :m071:
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From my understanding, one doesn't have to conform with the society to be viewed by it in the same way as those who choose to conform with it. Society will view a cold-blood murder as "evil" even if the person who did it doesn't think it was evil.
 
What would you do if you say a dog biting a kid? Stop him and be a hero, but if you kick a kid for attack a puppy than you're a bad guy. :m066: The system is broken. I agree with the punisher quote from the 2004 movie.

"I leave this as a declaration of intent, so no one will be confused. One: "Si vis pacem, para bellum." Latin. Boot Camp Sergeant made us recite it like a prayer. "Si vis pacem, para bellum - If you want peace, prepare for war." Two: Frank Castle is dead. He died with his family. Three: in certain extreme situations, the law is inadequate. In order to shame its inadequacy, it is necessary to act outside the law. To pursue... natural justice. This is not vengeance. Revenge is not a valid motive, it's an emotional response. No, not vengeance. Punishment."

Anyways, I can see people agree with me in one way or another.
 
???
 
I think I just went crazy on my own thread. Anyways, *rewinds the clock*

I'm saying that I'm glad people agree with me in one form or another.

I gave a weird example of a dog attacking a kid and someone saving the kid and being a hero, but if the roles were reverse and the guy saved the dog by attack the kid than he'd be a bad guy. That is why the system is broken.

I think I just wanted to place that quote someplace.
 
Ookami said:
I gave a weird example of a dog attacking a kid and someone saving the kid and being a hero, but if the roles were reverse and the guy saved the dog by attack the kid than he'd be a bad guy. That is why the system is broken.
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Why would the guy save the dog if the dog is attacking a kid? And if it was the kid attacking the dog, he surely wouldn't have to harm the kid to make it stop.
 
:P It's called hypothetical, and they were actually separate examples.

However, if you want me to change them for your Se (Yes! I said it! Sensor traitor bastards....)

In one example we have a rottweiler attack a grown man (36). The man is saved by you and you become a hero.

In another we have a teenager (16) attack the rottweiler. He's planning on killing it, and hurting anyone who gets in his way. He's overreacting because we dog scratched his car. I know people like this so they do exist. Now say you're a 25+ year old man. Now also say the dog has a rep for being evil even though it wouldn't hurt a fly. It has a scary appearance. Thus you attack the kid to stop him from killing the dog. You run off with the dog and give him a home. You're now regarded as a bad guy because you attack a kid to save an evil dog.
 
Ookami said:
:P It's called hypothetical, and they were actually separate examples.

However, if you want me to change them for your Se (Yes! I said it! Sensor traitor bastards....)

In one example we have a rottweiler attack a grown man (36). The man is saved by you and you become a hero.

In another we have a teenager (16) attack the rottweiler. He's planning on killing it, and hurting anyone who gets in his way. He's overreacting because we dog scratched his car. I know people like this so they do exist. Now say you're a 25+ year old man. Now also say the dog has a rep for being evil even though it wouldn't hurt a fly. It has a scary appearance. Thus you attack the kid to stop him from killing the dog. You run off with the dog and give him a home. You're now regarded as a bad guy because you attack a kid to save an evil dog.
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If good and evil only exist in a social context, it's a large assumption that you would be viewed as a bad guy for saving an 'evil' dog by a majority of the population. In my experience, most people wouldn't advocate killing the dog regardless if the dog was mean and scratched the boy's car. They'd see the boy as the ''evil'' one for attacking and attempting the kill the dog and the hypothetical me.
 
:) I'm guessing we lived in two different types of environments. While I've actually lived in more I've had to go through that situation before but change 25+ to 13 and the 16 year old to 18.

Most places are protect your own.
 
Ookami said:
:) I'm guessing we lived in two different types of environments. While I've actually lived in more I've had to go through that situation before but change 25+ to 13 and the 16 year old to 18.

Most places are protect your own.
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See, that's really lame. I'm assuming this is a personal experience and you saved the dog? That's bullshit if you were ostracized for doing the right thing. If this is the case, I totally agree with you when (i think it was you) said the system of good and evil is broken.
 
Yep, I saved the dog. It was a good dog. Freaking big for a rottweiler which is probably why it had a bad image. Later on they stole the dog and I never saw it again.

Like I said, people protect their own. I was the new white kid in the black neighborhood. I dislike using that as an example because I'm not racist or anything. That's how they described it.

Anyways, people are idiotic. They'd rather do what they 'feel' is right (protecting their own) than what is justice. Which would have been outing the kid. People don't want to do what is needed.
 
Ookami said:
Yep, I saved the dog. It was a good dog. Freaking big for a rottweiler which is probably why it had a bad image. Later on they stole the dog and I never saw it again.

Like I said, people protect their own. I was the new white kid in the black neighborhood. I dislike using that as an example because I'm not racist or anything. That's how they described it.

Anyways, people are idiotic. They'd rather do what they 'feel' is right (protecting their own) than what is justice. Which would have been outing the kid. People don't want to do what is needed.
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It makes me question where people learn their morals when people value the paint job on their car over the life of an animal. Ignorance...
 
Than someone protecting themselves is an evil act?

Hmm, I can come up with tons of holes but I'll allow you to correct yourself. :P I'll be nice wolf.
 
Ookami said:
Than someone protecting themselves is an evil act?

Hmm, I can come up with tons of holes but I'll allow you to correct yourself. :P I'll be nice wolf.
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Well, as stated earlier, if it's for a higher purpose it can be debated. It's a bit hard to word an exact definition, but considering you're infj's I'm sure you get what I mean without further explanation.
 
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