Gun Control and the Second Amendment

[h=4]sychopaths are natural? [/h][h=6]Rate this Entry[/h]

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by Billy
, 14-02-13 at 10:41 PM (15 Views)

Does it make sense to say that as we, as a species civilize and our populations boom (as it clearly is. Nearly 8 billion and counting.) promote the existence of sociopaths and psychopaths. Lets face it... there are a lot of different kinds of personalities out there, but I am sure we have all noticed similar personalities popping up in different people. As though that personality is an inborn quality, not environmental. If the formation of our personalities is indeed partly genetic then it makes sense that personalities would vary individually due to personal experience, but also via evolution share similarities in a limited way. Sub groups. Its what MBTI attempts to explain. Although IMO MBTI is a severely flawed system because it protests too much and its entirely too subjective. And it takes little to no physical evidence into the equation, and especially nothing about DNA and genes, which is precisely how these different personality sub groups would get around physically from person to person and survive from generation to generation.


Lets be honest about one thing. Psychopaths and sociopathic personalities are natural. They pop up in different people in different places with similar characteristics. Non sociopaths (the majority) see their cold lifeless demeanor as scary and awkward. It is! I've known a few... They eek me out. Supposedly that's a natural mental reflex though, something to do with being in the presence of a predator. (perhaps some of those people don't produce a chemical or pheromone) and our brains pick that up and go "wtf?". Anyway how would such a ubiquitously negatively perceived set of genes get around?


Well... civilization requires rules. Rules have penalties. How many empathetic people do you know who would want to be a grave digger? How about the guy who loaded up the corpses after a plague? How about an executioner who worked the guillotine. These are roles that society required as necessary evils to function properly. Those roles were filled with humans, and the humans best suited to survive in those roles were more than likely colder, possibly even predominately psychopaths or sociopaths. What about people who were warriors? I don't mean a poor peasant conscripted into his feudal lords army, but the men who were bred for war, for killing. They were greatly rewarded for their service. Could you consistently kill on a battle field, no guns, swords, to thrust a blade into someones body? Once upon a time, when our species was younger, those men meant the difference between your tribe or clans lives and resources. They were rewarded with women and coin for their deeds, have you ever read Beowulf? There was a classic psychopath. Remember R.P. McMurphy from "One Flew Over the Cuckoos nest?" He said it there. "I'm a psychopath, it means I fight and fuck too much."


Its interesting to see how technology has freed us from the bonds of our savage beginnings, that some genetic variations are being socially bred out of us by necessity. I watched a documentary on women going to sperm banks to get inseminated. Yes, they all wanted good looking, tall, and intelligent sperm, but the one factor they bred the most for was "kindness".


Kindness = empathy. So I am sorry to all my friendly psychopaths out there who have not learned how to mimic emotion like the more intelligent and adaptable psychos do, the genes that make you you, are slated for extinction. We no longer need your services as a species.

This seemed relevant.

 
Friendly psychopaths?

Sure the majority don't kill or rape but they pillage in other ways. They seem to have adapted to thrive as CEOs and VPs and politicians and wall street bankers etc etc...
 
Friendly psychopaths?

Sure the majority don't kill or rape but they pillage in other ways. They seem to have adapted to thrive as CEOs and VPs and politicians and wall street bankers etc etc...

I was just thinking how a lot of psychopaths probably never make it. They are left behind as Kirk Cameron would say.
 
Jesus, are the Pro-Gun Supporters intentionally dense, or just not like to read??

There is NO Constitutional right for an individual to own a firearm. None. It doesn't exist. It never has existed. The actual text is and always has been, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Article 1, section 8 of the Constitution explains the powers of Congress - "To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions"

Thereby, the meaning of the actual Second Amendment provides the Federal Government the right to regulate groups of people using firearms to protect the country. There's no individual mention or inference ever made to a person owing a firearm.

The idea that any individual has the right to keep and bear arms for their own sake has never been written anywhere in our Constitution. So quit using this tired, pathetic excuse of "Constitution right" to guise your own desire to simply "own a gun".
 
Jesus, are the Pro-Gun Supporters intentionally dense, or just not like to read??

There is NO Constitutional right for an individual to own a firearm. None. It doesn't exist. It never has existed. The actual text is and always has been, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Article 1, section 8 of the Constitution explains the powers of Congress - "To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions"

Thereby, the meaning of the actual Second Amendment provides the Federal Government the right to regulate groups of people using firearms to protect the country. There's no individual mention or inference ever made to a person owing a firearm.

The idea that any individual has the right to keep and bear arms for their own sake has never been written anywhere in our Constitution. So quit using this tired, pathetic excuse of "Constitution right" to guise your own desire to simply "own a gun".

Supreme court must be staffed by dense, bibliophobes.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

It is pretty clear from reading comments from the people who wrote the constitution that the right to bear arms wasn't just for a well regulated militia. They felt it was necessary for individuals to have arms so that if they needed to call up a militia it would be ready to go.

The articles and the bill of rights do two separate things.

The articles tell congress what its duties and powers are.

The bill of rights say what rights the people have and limit the powers of government.

You are trying to conflate the two to support your ideology.
 
Supreme court must be staffed by dense, bibliophobes.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

It is pretty clear from reading comments from the people who wrote the constitution that the right to bear arms wasn't just for a well regulated militia. They felt it was necessary for individuals to have arms so that if they needed to call up a militia it would be ready to go.

The articles and the bill of rights do two separate things.

The articles tell congress what its duties and powers are.

The bill of rights say what rights the people have and limit the powers of government.

You are trying to conflate the two to support your ideology.

The Supreme Court's decision supports my argument against people calming the Second Amendment defense, it does not negate it. The Court deferred to state constitutions for legal precedence to support its decision, not the Federal one.

People can look to their state constitutions and claim that it's "their right" to own a firearm... in that state, but they lose any credible defense when they look to the United States Constitution to make that same claim.

Furthermore, DC is not a sate, it is a Federal District. It has no state constitution. Therefor, it is not unprecedented for the district to adopt other states' laws, regulations and constructional portions in determine its own laws for the local population, like they did with this case.

In addition to all of that, the text of the Constitution only specifically refers to militias, not individuals. Only laws stating it is legal to own a firearm are going to be laws that would make it on to a state's constitution since the US Constitution does not directly forbid or support it. Most other states would consider the Second Amendment to be the regulation for firearms and specifically stating it is illegal to own a firearm would either be superfluous, or a non-issue.
 
The Supreme Court's decision supports my argument against people calming the Second Amendment defense, it does not negate it. The Court deferred to state constitutions for legal precedence to support its decision, not the Federal one.

People can look to their state constitutions and claim that it's "their right" to own a firearm... in that state, but they lose any credible defense when they look to the United States Constitution to make that same claim.

Furthermore, DC is not a sate, it is a Federal District. It has no state constitution. Therefor, it is not unprecedented for the district to adopt other states' laws, regulations and constructional portions in determine its own laws for the local population, like they did with this case.

In addition to all of that, the text of the Constitution only specifically refers to militias, not individuals. Only laws stating it is legal to own a firearm are going to be laws that would make it on to a state's constitution since the US Constitution does not directly forbid or support it. Most other states would consider the Second Amendment to be the regulation for firearms and specifically stating it is illegal to own a firearm would either be superfluous, or a non-issue.

You can't have a militia without guns. The owning of firearms was a given for individuals when the constitution was written; so unless there has since been a change in that clarifying that the original constitution did not allow individuals to own guns (which would have made criminals of all of the gun owning population) then the intention of the people who wrote it was that individuals have a right to bare arms

I cannot understand how some intelligent people cannot see what their government is doing here

The FAA have just taken further steps to expand the use of drones over US soil:

https://rt.com/usa/news/faa-drone-aircraft-us-335/

FAA takes major step in expanding drone use in America

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Published: 15 February, 2013, 22:09


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USA, Planes, Security

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RQ-4 Global Hawk unmanned aerial vehicle (Reuters)

US President Barack Obama has approved legislation that is expected to immediately accelerate the use of domestic surveillance drones within the United States.
On Thursday, Pres. Obama signed the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, a bill that the Federal Aviation Administration’s AnneMarie Ternay describes as containing requirements for integrating unmanned aircraft systems and vehicles such as drones into the national airspace starting immediately.

With the president’s approval this week, the FAA has already begun soliciting proposals from cities across the country that are interested in becoming one of six soon-to-be established test sites where drones and UAVs will be sent into the sky as America takes the next step towards accepting the latest generation of aircraft.

The FAA says that locations in over 30 states have already showed interest in the program. Soon the agency will be tasked with picking a mere half-dozen locations so that drones can formally be introduced into official US airspace and not just strips of sky above designated areas.

Should the FAA stay on schedule, drones are likely to start flying regularly in the US by late 2015, and as many as 30,000 non-military UAVs are expected to be in the sky by the end of the decade. First, however, the FAA, drone builders and pilots will have to pick test sites to work out the kinks of a controversial aircraft.


“We expect to learn how unmanned aircraft systems operate in different environments and how they will impact air traffic operations,”
FAA Chief Michael Huerta says in a statement obtained by the Associated Press. “The test sites will inform the agency as we develop standards for certifying unmanned aircraft and determine necessary air traffic requirements.”

"This research will give us valuable information about how best to ensure the safe introduction of this advanced technology into our nation's skies," Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood added to the AP.

Earlier in the week, the head of the FAA’s new drone department spoke at a convention outside of Washington, DC to discuss some concerns Americans have voiced en masse lately about bringing drones to inside of America’s borders. The US Department of Homeland Security already has an arsenal of the aircraft at its disposal for use in border-patrol missions, but small-time law enforcement agencies and other federal, state and educational institutions hope to have drones of their in the near future. So far, the FAA has received at least 81 applications from entities wishing to obtain drone licenses, including police departments and universities. What exactly law enforcement could do with a drone has some Americans concerns, though, an issue that was addressed at this week’s conference.


“We currently have rules in the books that deal with releasing anything from an aircraft, period. Those rules are in place and that would prohibit weapons from being installed on a civil aircraft,”
Jim Williams of the FAA’s Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) Integration Office said this week.

On the same day that President Obama signed off on the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, around 150 people from Oakland, California attended an Alameda County meeting to weigh in on demands from figures there to put drones in the sky.

“We oppose the use of public resources to buy machines to surveil its citizens,”
said Michael Seigel, a member of Alameda County Against Drones, according to Wired’s Danger Room.

Earlier in the week, the FAA’s Mr. Williams dismissed those concerns, saying, “The FAA has no authority to make rules or enforce any rules relative to privacy.”
“We can ask [the industry] to take into consideration the privacy issue. … There aren’t any rules to date on that.”
 
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Jesus, are the Pro-Gun Supporters intentionally dense, or just not like to read??

There is NO Constitutional right for an individual to own a firearm. None. It doesn't exist. It never has existed. The actual text is and always has been, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Article 1, section 8 of the Constitution explains the powers of Congress - "To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions"

Thereby, the meaning of the actual Second Amendment provides the Federal Government the right to regulate groups of people using firearms to protect the country. There's no individual mention or inference ever made to a person owing a firearm.

The idea that any individual has the right to keep and bear arms for their own sake has never been written anywhere in our Constitution. So quit using this tired, pathetic excuse of "Constitution right" to guise your own desire to simply "own a gun".

Show me where is says "The right of the militia to keep and bear arms"? Because I believe it says. "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Notice how it says "The right of the PEOPLE".

If you think that doesn't make sense how about we take a couple qoutes from some of the founding fathers themselves to see what their mind sets may have been at the time. Having just fought a revolutionary war against a tyrannical government and all.

"Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth." -George Washington

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government" - Thomas Jefferson

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms." - James Madison

"Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government. " -James Madison
 
Jesus, are the Pro-Gun Supporters intentionally dense, or just not like to read??

There is NO Constitutional right for an individual to own a firearm. None. It doesn't exist. It never has existed. The actual text is and always has been, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Article 1, section 8 of the Constitution explains the powers of Congress - "To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions"

Thereby, the meaning of the actual Second Amendment provides the Federal Government the right to regulate groups of people using firearms to protect the country. There's no individual mention or inference ever made to a person owing a firearm.

The idea that any individual has the right to keep and bear arms for their own sake has never been written anywhere in our Constitution. So quit using this tired, pathetic excuse of "Constitution right" to guise your own desire to simply "own a gun".

You are incorrect, you can play semantic word games all day. Most politicos do, but the debate is over the intention of the words as they are written. If you read other writings by Jefferson and other founding fathers, it seems pretty clear that they meant for the PEOPLE to have a way to fight their Government. The people - collective individuals. As far as I am concerned the fact that I am required by law to conscript myself to the US government via the Selective Services, I'd say that makes me an honorary militia member. I get to keep my guns.
 
You can't have a militia without guns. The owning of firearms was a given for individuals when the constitution was written; so unless there has since been a change in that clarifying that the original constitution did not allow individuals to own guns (which would have made criminals of all of the gun owning population) then the intention of the people who wrote it was that individuals have a right to bare arms

That's a leap in logic that goes too far. We can only go by what was written and in the same document, as I quoted before - Article 8, Section 1 gives Congress the right to call upon the state militia to protect the nation. In the same breath, with the same pen, they call upon the militia as an organization governed by Congress. There is no mention of individual liberties or rights for the members to each, on their own, bear arms outside of the government regulated militia. Those are the things that are written in the text, not conjecture about what we think they may have thought in their minds when they wrote it.
 
That's a leap in logic that goes too far. We can only go by what was written and in the same document, as I quoted before - Article 8, Section 1 gives Congress the right to call upon the state militia to protect the nation. In the same breath, with the same pen, they call upon the militia as an organization governed by Congress. There is no mention of individual liberties or rights for the members to each, on their own, bear arms outside of the government regulated militia. Those are the things that are written in the text, not conjecture about what we think they may have thought in their minds when they wrote it.

No its not conjecture, @Colt even provided some quotes for you to illustrate what they were thinking. The last quote was particularly important, i suggest you go back, read it again and fully take on board its meaning

It says to not read the words out of their historical context

I know you are an animal lover Lerxt and that perhaps you would like to see less guns around to see less animals shot (if i'm wrong about that then i apologise, i'm just throwing it out there)

But there is far more to this issue that hunting rights. The way you said the 'pro-gun' people in your post suggests to me that you are not seeing the full nuances of this situation

I am not what some so called 'liberals' would call 'a right wing, bible bashing, gun nut'; I am, if i have to label myself a libertarian socialist....at least thats the thing i agree with most in spirit

This division that is opening up in your society is NOT the traditional republican v's democrat or liberal versus conservative or urbanite v's rural debate there is much more going on at the moment

Yes the corporate media will be trying to paint it that way because they are looking to use people who identify as 'liberal' as unwitting dupes to help create the change the corporations want to see

These corporations are the ones responsible for animal cruelty on a vast scale through their massed production methods. @acd posted a link to an article earlier on in the thread that showed how the government are now deeming animal activists who stand up against the awful corporate practices as 'terrorists'!!!!

So lets look at some historical context for all this:

Since the US went off the gold standard in 1971 it has been experimenting with fiat currency. This has meant that people can leverage upto say 10 times their earnings to buy a mortgage, but it means that the corporations have been able to leverage much much more and they have been getting very rich indeed; this has lead to a massive wealth discrepancy between the rich and the poor. However the fiat currency system (built on debt as it is because every dollar the central bankers print has interest attached) is now coming to an end.

Many countries are now trying to devalue their currencys which is creating a 'currency war'. the last time this happened after the great depression it turned into a hot war ie a world war

The people who run your country know that they are destroying the value of your currency by printing more and more of it. They know this is going to raise living costs, worsen unemployment and slash public services but the world is basically moving back towards a gold standard and the fiat currency system is being destroyed in to quote Max Keiser a 'controlled demolition'

This isn't going to affect the ruling elite as they are investing in hard assets and precious metals, but it is going to affect all the common folk still bound up in the fiat currency system; there is going to be a lot of anger at the bankers and the politicans who have helped them in what is the biggest swindle the planet has ever seen

They are bleeding the poeple dry and they know that at some point the poeple are going to get very angry at this, so they are making changes to the legislation under the guise of 'terrorism' laws which enable them to control and keep under surveillance their own public

They have created the NDAA which treats american soil as the battleground and enables them to detain and torture and to rendition citizens to other countries where there are NO laws regarding torture. They have created drone kill lists and they are moving drones to fly over the US. they created the Patriot act to make it easier to spy on US citizens and they are trying to pass a raft of legislation to control the internet eg ACTA, PIPA, SOPA, CISPA

There is going to be more changes to the law that take even more of the peoples civil liberties away....you can bet your house on that

The enemy is not islam, they enemy of the ruling elite is YOU and all the other members of the public who they exploit.

It has always been this way in a capitalist society. The ruling elite see the public as a resource to be used and exploited and any rights the public have gained to protect themselves have been fought and campaigned for. in fact that is how the US was created when some people threw off the International bankers operating out of the Bank of England who wanted to destroy the colonialists currency that was not printed by the central banks but rather by the people for the people which meant it did not have interest attached!!!!

The same banking families that the founding fathers threw off with their militias eventually managed to gain control of the US money supply by the creation of the federal reserve act which gave the power to print money to the private bankers, many of which are European.

These same banking dynasties have depegged from gold in 1971, whilst deregualting the markets, ending for example the Glass-Steagal act and have allowed the creation of massively complicated derivatives that basically mask what they are doing which eneabled them to package and sell toxic mortgages leading to the 'credit crunch'. They then took taxpayers money in the form of 'bank bailouts' and gave them to the bankers!!!

We have been robbed! They are taking away our wealth and our rights and the means we have of protecting ourselves. They are not going to create a fairer or healthier society, quite the opposite in fact. They are going to create a society that are slaves to the corporations or as Orwell put it 'imagine a boot on a human face, forever'....that is what they are doing....centralising wealth, centralising their power, centralising control

These guys are crazy and taking the guns is just one way in which they are stripping us of all power. We need to resist everything they are tryin to do at the moment to make us weaker and them stronger

And that is coming from an anarchist NOT from a rightwinger
 
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This is a fallacy.
Islam can also be a problem-- and like most other religions, it is.
And seriously, if you're a socialist, why are you posting religious propaganda??
You may not consider yourself a right winger, but you really should try to look at these things before you post them.
Perhaps you could ask yourself what Karl Marx would do-- and review what he said in relation to quantity versus quality.

And I'm seriously wondering what kind of social upheaval people are expecting to face that requires them all to be armed, or why handguns, shotguns, normal rifles, knives, or homemade explosives won't be enough to wage this war. What exactly does the government stand to gain by putting its boot down on everyone's throat when they've already got everyone hypnotized by TV? Why would they upset the status quo when public forums already provide us with a vicarious release valve for all of our would-be revolutionary impulses?

I was under the impression that the constitution guaranteed people arms because it was written by rebels in a country with a significant amount of armed loyalists… it wasn't supposed to be about protecting collectors, enthusiasts, etc.
 
This is a fallacy.
Islam can also be a problem-- and like most other religions, it is.

The image is designed to overturn the media hysteria created surrounding islam by reminding people that the really big uphevals we have seen have not been created by Islam

Of course there are extremists operating under the banner of islam the same way there are extremists operating under the banner of judaism and christianity and all the isms as well

But the corporate (zionist) media protrays islam as the source of all the problems, but when you switch off the corporate media which replays scene after scene of angry muslims waving kalashnikovs about and look at the situation objectively it becomes clear that islam has not been behind the big conflicts and not only that but the reason there are many muslims angry is because the west invade muslim lands, steal their oil, overthrow their democratically elected leaders and replace them with puppets, destabilise their countries and kill countless civilians through sanctions and drone strikes

And seriously, if you're a socialist, why are you posting religious propaganda??

I sympathise with the materialist conception of history only so far. The reality is that we don't know what the source of reality is.

So although i am not religious i can still see how various sides in the conflict use religion as a weapon

I'm not a state socialist in that i don't believe in a centrally controlled planned economy, my sympathies are more with libertarian socialists who believe in power being exercised from the bottom up by the people

I think that there are essentially two groups in our society. Those that own things but don't produce anything and those that don't own much but produce everything and those that don't produce prey on those that do produce

Institutionalised religion has taken the form, in the west, of the Roman Catholic church. Despite christianity starting out as a religion for the poor and the oppressed when it started gaining traction in Rome, the authorities could not stamp it out with violence or intimidation so they hijaked it and took control of it and of the interpretation of it.

When an emerging merchant class (the burghers) rose up and challenged the control of the aristocracy in the 'reformation' the Roman Catholic church was the biggest land owner in Europe so it sided with the aristocracy and the royals who were also landowners. The merchants managed to muscle their way up to take a seat at the top table though and the aristocracy had to accomodate them

When the working class then tried to assert themselves, the merchants and the aristocracy both stood together to resist them in order to protect their own interests

The working class has not yet managed to take their place at the top table thereby progressing the process. The merchants and aristocracy controlled the military, banking and politics and now media and this is making it very difficult for working people to rise up and stake their claim, but there are signs all around the world that they have not accepted their lot as wage slaves

So yeah i sympathise with the socialist view that religion has worked against the interests of the working people by encouraging them to just accept their lot here on earth in hope of a better deal in the hereafter instead of working to improve things now, but i can also see that islam although it too is used to keep the status quo is not the big devil that the zionist media make it out to be

In fact for the most part the provocation of islam is what is makes it hostile. Every time a drone kills a bunch of civilians in pakisthan or afghanistan it radicalises all their friends and families against the US. Drone strikes are probably the best recruiters of radical islam; wouldn't you be angry if a drone from another country bombed your village or home?

An 'al qaeda' is the creation of the CIA

I would urge all working jews, christians and muslims to recognise the fact that we are all being used by the capitalist class and that they stoke the fires of hate to keep us all divided but i don't think socialists necesarily always get the nuances of religion.

Crude exoteric religion is superstitous for sure, but esoteric religion is often simply a personification of natural forces and underlying psychic processes explained in metaphorical ways. An analysis of myths, legends and pantheons of gods can yeild a lot of insight. 'Gods' are often symbols packed full of meaning, so i'm not an iconoclast like the socialists i just think people should look at religion on a deeper level

You may not consider yourself a right winger, but you really should try to look at these things before you post them.
Perhaps you could ask yourself what Karl Marx would do-- and review what he said in relation to quantity versus quality.

I'm not a marxist. i think he had some good ideas about what the problem is but i don't agree with his solutions. I think the element of society at the centre of all the problems has created a false right v's left dichotomy as a way of dividing people and i think they play both ends off against each other

I am certainly not a 'rightwinger' and the real rightwing elements are the corporate interests i'm criticing because they have taken over government and the bluring of corporate and government power is fascism

And I'm seriously wondering what kind of social upheaval people are expecting to face that requires them all to be armed, or why handguns, shotguns, normal rifles, knives, or homemade explosives won't be enough to wage this war. What exactly does the government stand to gain by putting its boot down on everyone's throat when they've already got everyone hypnotized by TV?

The upheval people are worried about is that the element behind all these events is now making its move. It has been like a serpent weaving its way beneath human affairs surfacing at various points allowing people a glimpse of it at various points in history but now it has broken cover....it is making its move for total control because it knows that it is all or nothing now

The reason for this is because each upheval in the past has been accompanied by a growth in literacy by the people. For example the reformation was possible because the burghers (merchant class) became literate and they could read the bible for themselves and they realised the RCC had been lying to them about all sorts of things. The printing press was a revolutionary piece of technology that allowed the widespread distribution of radical pamplets and ideas and knowledge spread across Europe like wild fire

Newspapers before they were bought out by the bankers also allowed the working man/woman to become more knowledgable as he/she became literate and this lead to them organising more effectively

Now we have the internet. Revolutions are started on social media like brush fires, ideas pass across the globe at the touch of a button. I don't know if you are old enough to remember before the internet was here, but i can and it has changed EVERYTHING

Literacy can take many forms...it is not just about reading and writing, you can have numerical literacy, economic literacy, political literacy, scientific literacy and the internet is creating a massive acceleration in literacy of all sorts right across the world. people who before could only rely on word of mouth or underground papers can now find leaked government information at their finger tips

Humanity is now seeing all its aspects good and bad laid out before it and this is having a massive effect. the new statesman even described events like the arab spring and the occupy movement and the indignados and all the other protests kicking off globally as modern man/woman redefining itself

We are living through an unprecedented shift at the moment and no one really knows how this thing is going to pan out but there are people working very hard to try and make things work out how they want it to work out just like there has been throughout history as whichever group is in power seeks to protect their interests

Marx said the working people had only their chains to lose, but the rich have their empires to lose and they are looking at events with great concern because there is the perfect storm brewing

Global power is shifting from west to east, the fiat currency system is collapsing and giving way to a gold standard, the environment is showing signs of stress, western aggression has sparked nuclear proliferation, peak oil has been reached and other resources are dwindling and the people are experiencing an awakening and as they grow more aware they are becoming more confident and demanding their place at the top table the same way as the merchant class did before them; standing in their way is the bankers who trace their lineage through the merchant class

So the upheval has many aspects to it. The ruling class however are not going to share power without a struggle. In theory this doesn't need to be violent. if the people can awaken to the fact that as the workers they are the producers then they will realise that they run the economy really and without them everything grinds to a halt. If they can coordinate themselves enough they can down tools in an act of peaceful non-cooperation and win the game tomorrow....check mate

Why would they upset the status quo when public forums already provide us with a vicarious release valve for all of our would-be revolutionary impulses?

The forums are a hotbed of political discussion. They are radically altering peoples worldviews. They do not act as a release valve infact many of the uprisings have been coordinated online through social media. this is why the government is so keen to monitor what is being said online and also to try and put out missinformation to mislead people. They have agents going online using mutliple usernames to try and create a body of opinion to try and push certain views. for example they particularly want to quell any 'conspiracy theorys' that would undermine working peoples loyalties to the government (corporate dominated government NOT government for the people by the people) and thereby decouple them from the control of the ruling class

I was under the impression that the constitution guaranteed people arms because it was written by rebels in a country with a significant amount of armed loyalists… it wasn't supposed to be about protecting collectors, enthusiasts, etc.

The constitution was created by europeans who had left authoritarian regimes in Europe

There had been many wars between European countries in the imperialist scrabble for resources and slaves. These wars were financed by borrowing money from bankers. These bankers would often give war loans to both sides in the war. The bankers realised that wars were extremely profitable for them and they remain so today.

These bankers used their wealth to increase their political influence and of course with politicans and royals in debt to them they already had a certain amount of sway.

The bankers got the indebted politicians to agree to the creation of a central bank (the 'bank of england'). The bankers took on responsibility for printing the money off the treasury so that whenever the government wanted money they asked the bankers for it and the bankers charged interest on it. This is why the US and UK have so much debt because with 'fractional reserve banking' every time a dollar is created there is interest attached

The colonists did not get their money from the central bankers they printed their own money called colonial scrip and did not owe any interest to the bankers so the colonys prospered. The bankers did not like this so they got the politicians to force their currency on the colonys using the military as an enforcer. This created debt to the bankers just as it had in Britain so the colonists fought back

The bankers however gained power in the US over the centuries by buying into US industry, banking and newspapers and they bought political influence and eventually gained control of the money supply with the passing of the federal reserve act. Since then every dollar printed has had debt attached to it....debt to the international (many of which are European) bankers who put in the initial investment for the privately owned 'federal' reserve bank

The constitution was created as a way to protect future generations of americans (US) from predatory bankers, but the bankers have weaselled their way back in and are determined to undermine and eventually destroy the constitution because many Americans have forgotten their history or rather because the banker owned media and the banker influenced education system has blinded them to it

The guns are really only a small part of this story but they are significant because if the guns go, it will be easier for the bankers to use the military to clamp down on any groups in the US who are hostile to a banker takeover. the bankers also know that there is a lot of upheval around the world so if they are to stay in control of the US then they must put the necessary controls in place to keep the working people divided, missinformed and dissempowered, financially, intellectually, imaginatively, politically and militarily
 
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http://www.naturalnews.com/039345_DHS_arms_race_armored_vehicles.html

[h=1]Government arms race kicks into high gear as DHS buys 2,700 armored vehicles for streets of America[/h]
Monday, March 04, 2013
by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger
Editor of NaturalNews.com

(NaturalNews) When DHS purchased 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition to be used domestically, inside the USA, and I said this looks like a government agency preparing for war with the American people, I was told, "That's crazy. The government would never do that."

When DHS purchased 7,000 full-auto assault rifles to be used inside the United States, calling them "personal defense weapons" that could be used in urban warfare, I was once again told I was crazy for suggesting the government was arming up for war with the American people.

Now DHS has retrofitted 2,717 "Navistar Defense" armored vehicles for service on the streets of America. Click here to see pictures and specs for this vehicle from the manufacturer's website.

These vehicles, which people who don't know any better might call "light tanks," are specifically designed to resist mines and ambush attacks. They use bulletproof windows and are designed to withstand small arms fire, including smaller-caliber rifles such as .223 Remington.

MaxxPro_Armored-Vehicle-Side.jpg
The retrofit was completed in May, 2012, and these 2,700+ armored vehicles are now ready to deploy across the streets of America, reports Modern Survival Blog, the primary source for this story.

[h=1]A domestic arms race[/h]Importantly, none of these armaments -- billions of bullets, thousands of full-auto assault rifles and thousands of armored assault vehicles -- are being purchased by the Pentagon for use in wars overseas. Instead, these are being purchased by DHS for use inside the United States... on the streets of America.

This is a domestic department of the federal government that is clearly and unambiguously arming for war against the American people.

This war will also involve the use of armed military drones attacking American citizens, which is exactly why the Obama administration now claims the legal authority to assassinate Americans on U.S. soil using militarized drones.

This is at the same time the American people are arming up like never before as well. U.S. ammunition manufacturers are currently producing over one billion rounds per week. All that ammo is flying off the shelves, with virtually nothing remaining in stock anywhere.

Magazine manufacturers like ProMag Industries are backordered for over a year, and gun manufacturers are anywhere from 6 months to 18 months behind schedule, desperately trying to keep up with customer demand that continues to grow. I called Desert Tactical Arms today and confirmed their guns are running six months behind schedule. This is the company that makes the portable .338 Lapua and .50 BMG rifles favored by U.S. troops in activities such as so-called "hard target interdiction." (i.e. killing vehicles.)

As the government arms race continues to stockpile weapons and ammo in the hands of DHS, the American people are increasingly turning to large-caliber weapons for their own stockpiles. Just last week, I recently went shooting here in Texas where we had three .50 cal Barrett BMG rifles, plus two .338 Lapua magnum sniper rifles, all firing on some thick steel targets. The targets were decimated, and every single shooter in our group was able to put lead on target, even from long-range distances.

[h=1]Holocaust deniers and DHS deniers[/h]Of course, there are people who deny DHS is engaged in an arms race, just as there are Holocaust deniers who deny Hitler ever took guns away from the Jews (before committing mass murder). Those deniers either claim that these purchases are not happening (but they are), or that the government is only buying such large quantities "to save money."

This is a distraction, of course. You don't "save money" buying things you don't need. Clearly, someone at the top of DHS believes the government needs these armored vehicles and full-auto assault rifles deployed on the streets of America.

But the bigger question -- and this is the question the mainstream media refuses to even ask -- is WHY does DHS need:

• 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition
• 7,000+ assault rifles
• 2,700+ armored assault vehicles

Unless you're insane or a denier, the answer is clear: DHS is expecting a large-scale domestic conflict.

[h=1]Why is DHS expecting a domestic war?[/h]So then, the commonsense question becomes: Why is DHS expecting a domestic war?

I've asked this question of many of my contacts, and what I keep hearing is that an economic collapse is fast approaching, and DHS is likely going to use all this equipment to try to maintain government power during the chaos and riots that are sure to follow the economic collapse. This equipment will all be needed to "maintain order on the streets," I'm told.

But that's only one possible scenario. Another scenario involves the criminally-run government announcing a nationwide gun confiscation scheme (just as Sen. Feinstein says she wants), then attempting to defend itself against the inevitable civil war that will result. The most likely outcome here is that DHS will only be able to control the areas that have been forcibly disarmed such as Chicago and New York City. They will be utterly unable to hold rural territories where freedom-loving Americans have already decided to fight back against tyranny no matter what the cost.

Yet a third scenario could involve government anticipation of a nuclear attack from North Korea followed by a "Red Dawn" land invasion from China or Korea. And DHS is here to fight for freedom and defeat the communists. (And if you believe that, I have a bridge to sell ya... far more likely is that DHS wants to welcome in the communists!)

[h=1]This domestic war machine was built by claiming it was for terrorists[/h]Keep in mind that DHS was created by President Bush in response to the 9/11 terror attacks. In fact, since 2001, the U.S. federal government has built a domestic war infrastructure by claiming it was all being constructed to protect us from the terrorists.

Now, in 2013, the government has "flipped the script" on who the threat is. According to Janet Napolitano, head of DHS, the real threat to America is now returning veterans and gun owners. So the feds have this massive armament infrastructure and spy grid lockdown over the entire population, and it turns out it was all built not for terrorists but for YOU.

The terrorists are nowhere to be found in all this, by the way. Every single terror plot halted by the FBI is a terror plot that was literally dreamed up, planned and nearly carried out by the FBI.

TSA has caught exactly zero terrorists trying to sneak through airport security.

The "war on terror" is and always has been a complete hoax. The purpose of the hoax was to provide a cover story for the building up of a massive domestic military force to be used against the American people when the time comes.

That's what we are really seeing with the purchase of ammo, automatic weapons and armored assault vehicles. This is why cable barriers are being erected on highways across the country. And this is why DHS has recently begun redacting the requested quantities from its public bid documents... in order to make sure the public can no longer learn how much it's stockpiling weapons and ammo.

[h=1]But none of this is real, right?[/h]Astonishingly, the vast majority of Americans remain completely unaware of any of this. For those mainstream sheeple, anything that doesn't appear on CNN must not be real.

So DHS really isn't buying 1.6 billion rounds of ammo, 7,000+ assault rifles, or 2,700+ armored mine-resistant assault vehicles. All of us who are reporting these purchases are "conspiracy theorists," we're all told, even though what we're reporting on is absolutely true.

Remember this: Former White House press secretary Robert Gibbs has now publicly admitted he was ordered by the White House to deny the existence of the U.S. militarized drone program even while the program existed and was known to be real. Denial has always been a key tactic for any government preparing to do something unethical or criminal.

But I've been told by some seemingly convincing people that none of this is real. It's all just a bad dream, you see, and soon you will wake up and find yourself in the land of the free, where there isn't poison in the crops and there isn't mercury in the vaccines. The President love you, and corporations are all ethical. Senators are humanitarians who put the good of the country ahead of their own selfish greed. The FDA stops censoring the truth about nutritional therapies and the USDA outlaws GMOs.

That's the delusional world that 90% of Americans believe they live in, and they even believe that as long as they just "believe" something, then reality doesn't even matter. Belief IS reality, according to the "Law of Attraction" followers, and if you just believe the government is good, then your belief will make it so.

That's a fascinating bit of self-hypnosis, because DHS doesn't care what you believe. It is stockpiling guns, ammo and armored vehicles for some very real reason. This isn't their imagination: it's hardware.

And hardware is rarely accumulated in such large quantities unless it is deemed necessary for some specific purpose. It seems that the American people -- delusional or otherwise -- may soon discover what purpose DHS has in mind.


 
This is obviously true. What better way to revive a sagging economy than by destabilizing your country for generations to come? China will never know what hit them!
 
Meanwhile, elsewhere on the site:

'Hugo Chavez may be dead, but the great cancer of socialism continues to spread'
Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/039362_Hugo_Chavez_cancer_socialism.html#ixzz2MoFWWEy0

I'm struggling to think of a more objective assessment of the positive and negative aspects of socialism.

And then there's this gem:

http://www.naturalnews.com/035276_Pepsi_fetal_cells_business_operations.html

which is basically a rumor that I easily traced back to some sort of Christian pro-life organization.

Seriously, [MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION]-- if you're going to clutter up the boards with your bullshit, at least make sure there's a semi-legitimate source behind it.
 
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Meanwhile, elsewhere on the site:

'Hugo Chavez may be dead, but the great cancer of socialism continues to spread'
Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/039362_Hugo_Chavez_cancer_socialism.html#ixzz2MoFWWEy0

I'm struggling to think of a more objective assessment of the positive and negative aspects of socialism.

And then there's this gem:

http://www.naturalnews.com/035276_Pepsi_fetal_cells_business_operations.html

which is basically a rumor that I easily traced back to some sort of Christian pro-life organization.

Seriously, @muir -- if you're going to clutter up the boards with your bullshit, at least make sure there's a semi-legitimate source behind it.

I think if you want to check the veracity of the article then break it down into its key claims

These revolve around the Deparment for Hom3land S3curity buying up armaments for use on US soil. I think if you want to find out if the writer is talking BS or not those are the points you need to research
 
This is obviously true. What better way to revive a sagging economy than by destabilizing your country for generations to come? China will never know what hit them!

I don't think its about destabilizing i think its about containment
 
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