Gunmen in the News- Theories

[casie]

Well yes, but that doesn't change the fact that your posts are a disorganised spammy mess that makes it much harder for other people to engage with the conversation. I don't see how you could not just make your point in one post and in one paragraph without the expansive links to other content.

And yes, Port Arthur is exactly the situation I am talking about. When we relent on gun restrictions we are saying to those that die as a result of gun violence (false flag or no) that their lives are less important than our rights. That is not to speak of the tens of thousands of murders around the world which are facilitated by loose gun laws, and hundreds of thousands of other crimes which are facilitated by loose gun laws. If we are the sort of society which can proudly say that their lives are an acceptable sacrifice for the individual freedoms of each member of society as a whole, then so be it! But this is not the social contract with which we are engaged - we allow people to experience poverty, discrimination and mental illness *alone, with no help from anybody* and this is the society you think has earned the freedom to carry lethal, indiscriminate weapons?

We should build the sorts of societies where the freedom to own and carry lethal weapons is enshrined and celebrated because it's also a society that wouldn't let people become so corrupt or unhealthy that they abuse that freedom.

 

[muir]

Well yes, but that doesn't change the fact that your posts are a disorganised spammy mess that makes it much harder for other people to engage with the conversation. I don't see how you could not just make your point in one post and in one paragraph without the expansive links to other content.

Because what i am saying is so different from what people hear in the mainstream media their first reaction is often to dismiss it out of hand

However if i support what i say with evidence then people who are interested can then read further into what i'm saying

The task of trying to convince someone of a different version of reality from the one that has been created for them by the corporate media is not really something that can be achieved in a few lines

And yes, Port Arthur is exactly the situation I am talking about. When we relent on gun restrictions we are saying to those that die as a result of gun violence (false flag or no) that their lives are less important than our rights. That is not to speak of the tens of thousands of murders around the world which are facilitated by loose gun laws, and hundreds of thousands of other crimes which are facilitated by loose gun laws. If we are the sort of society which can proudly say that their lives are an acceptable sacrifice for the individual freedoms of each member of society as a whole, then so be it! But this is not the social contract with which we are engaged - we allow people to experience poverty, discrimination and mental illness *alone, with no help from anybody* and this is the society you think has earned the freedom to carry lethal, indiscriminate weapons?

Then we need to improve society not take away one of the few protections the public currently have against dictatorial government

The same people who are responsible for those societal problems you mention are the same people trying to disarm and subjugate the public; they are looking to tear up any social contract; their vision for society is one of neo-fuedalism and if we submit to it then we have allowed the loss of the lives of the victims of the false flag attacks to be lost for the creation of a totalitarian nightmare...i think that would be an injustice to the victims

We should build the sorts of societies where the freedom to own and carry lethal weapons is enshrined and celebrated because it's also a society that wouldn't let people become so corrupt or unhealthy that they abuse that freedom.

We need power to reside with the people not insane billionaires who live in a total bubble removed from the rest of humanity where they play games with society as if people are pieces on a giant boardgame

 

[casie]

Okay, and how many people do you feel you have convinced as a result of linking to conspiracy websites and posting a series of apparently unconnected content? I understand that you are quite passionate about this, but if you want my advice on how to persuade people to your perspective on a difficult sell then you need to understand the person you're talking to as much as you need to understand your own position. People only offer such substantial evidence for their views without being prompted if they have already implicitly acknowledged that their position looks weaker. It also appears as though you are writing to change peoples' minds, and not to set forth your view. Ideally you would like to do both, but people are suspicious of other people who think the best communication strategy is to convince everyone they meet of their views.

 

[Lerxst]

I like to spend my money on explosives, gasoline, fuses, and the likes. Their cheap. The Joker

Maybe those that aren't familiarized with guns should leave us in the south alone.

Last I knew... hold on, let me check. Yep! Still there. Last I knew the South was still part of the 50 states that comprise the United States. Unless you mean the South isn't part of the country? But we all know how that turned out for y'all last time you tried...

 

[sassafras]

Hokay, steering the thread back on topic.

Here's something that always seems to drum up a bit of controversy. To what extent does sex and violence in the media contribute to situations like these? To what extent does content on television/video games/other sources of entertainment disturb our thinking? Does it affect only mentally ill individuals or those with a predisposition to mental illness, or do you think it also wields an inordinate influence on mentally healthy individuals too?

I think back to the Beverly Hills gun man, Elliot Rodgers, and his video treatise on the motivations behind his shooting spree. The link to the video is here. (Warning: Its actually quite disturbing) Watching this guy and his blunted affect, it almost reminds me of every Saturday Morning Cartoon villain I've ever seen as a kid. The leaden tone, the haughty chuckling, the two-dimensional, selfish thinking. He's not acting like a real, normal person here. He's completely lost himself and all touch with reality. It's like, having no self-identity any longer, he's taken to playing a role that's been influenced by every villainous trope there is.

 

[Eventhorizon]

Good to know, I'll judge your future posts and opinions in light of this.

It is unlikely to be favourable. Just something to think about.

Not a problem. If you keep touting your religion as the only correct one, I suspect that Ill not have favorable opinion of yours as well. We can at least say we see eye to eye on this one thing.

 

[Eventhorizon]

You get that a lot?

Actually enough. It generally happens when people realize they cant hold their own in a conversation.

 

[Lerxst]

You know, to add to this. I saw something on the Daily Show (tells you something when one of the only Liberal sources of news has to come form a comedian) that made a pretty valid point about the "Stand Your Ground" laws and the "Open Carry" movement. One says, you can use lethal force if you feel your life in threatened, and the other believes you should be able to carry a gun anywhere. How does your Average Joe on the street know the person carrying an AK-47 next to them is trained, sane, even-tempered, good-natured? They don't. They might feel, in fact that the person carrying that AK-47 is a threat and could then legally act in self defense by shooting them.

Welcome to the NRA's vision of the new Wild-West! And then a point I'm sure [MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION] would appreciate - who benefits from people owning guns and using guns? The people who make them. The billion-dollar industries are the ones who want people to buy, carry, keep and use guns and they "donate" to the NRA to ensure that this country will go down that path.

Guns are a salesman's dream come true. They are one of the only products who's value and demand goes up as more are sold. Why wouldn't the gun manufacturers want the general public to all be allowed to own and carry guns? Once they start getting used, more and more people are going to flock to the stores to demand more and more guns. It's Capitalism through fear. People afraid down to the core of their very existence, make great customers!

And you know what? Not only is it legal for a gun-producing corporation to act like this, it's desired. The goal of a corporation is to make money for its shareholders. Period.

 

[just me]

Last I knew... hold on, let me check. Yep! Still there. Last I knew the South was still part of the 50 states that comprise the United States. Unless you mean the South isn't part of the country? But we all know how that turned out for y'all last time you tried...

But you guys won't have any guns, right? Don't believe in fighting for your rights, right? We'll just need a few bulldozers. hehe

 

[just me]

Been around guns, shooting, and hunting most of my over sixty years. Never thought about shooting someone. Nothing wrong with guns.
Now, if you take a murderer and let him out of jail early? Shame, shame.

 

[say what]

Hokay, steering the thread back on topic.

Here's something that always seems to drum up a bit of controversy. To what extent does sex and violence in the media contribute to situations like these? To what extent does content on television/video games/other sources of entertainment disturb our thinking? Does it affect only mentally ill individuals or those with a predisposition to mental illness, or do you think it also wields an inordinate influence on mentally healthy individuals too?

I think back to the Beverly Hills gun man, Elliot Rodgers, and his video treatise on the motivations behind his shooting spree. The link to the video is here. (Warning: Its actually quite disturbing) Watching this guy and his blunted affect, it almost reminds me of every Saturday Morning Cartoon villain I've ever seen as a kid. The leaden tone, the haughty chuckling, the two-dimensional, selfish thinking. He's not acting like a real, normal person here. He's completely lost himself and all touch with reality. It's like, having no self-identity any longer, he's taken to playing a role that's been influenced by every villainous trope there is.

I hate...HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE this theory.
And I hate even more that I agree with it.
I think we are so desensitized to violence, sex, and hate that it's changing how we think. Just look at the porn thread. Young men are having erectile dysfunction now because of viewing too much porn. How could constantly watching violent tv and playing violent video games not impact us some how? Now, I do this, and I don't feel that I am going to be more violent, but given the rise in mental illness - from depression, anxiety, schizophrenia, narcissism, etc. - it's likely that these are going to influence individuals who might be susceptible to act impulsively, be persuaded, etc.

The reason I don't like the idea though, is that it generalizes to everyone consuming this material...and if we limit it, we limit/restrict it for all, and are essentially constricting creative expressions of art or peoples' choice to consume whatever they want.

This is where 'what do we do' and 'how far do we go' comes into play. It seems like such a slippery slope

 

[muir]

Okay, and how many people do you feel you have convinced as a result of linking to conspiracy websites and posting a series of apparently unconnected content? I understand that you are quite passionate about this, but if you want my advice on how to persuade people to your perspective on a difficult sell then you need to understand the person you're talking to as much as you need to understand your own position. People only offer such substantial evidence for their views without being prompted if they have already implicitly acknowledged that their position looks weaker. It also appears as though you are writing to change peoples' minds, and not to set forth your view. Ideally you would like to do both, but people are suspicious of other people who think the best communication strategy is to convince everyone they meet of their views.

I have debated and discussed with countless people over many years and seen the opinions of many people change over time

 

[say what]

Just today: Shooting at a school in Oregon, killer and one student dead.

http://gawker.com/there-are-reports..._source=gawker_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow


So sad.

 

[Kanamori]

I don't think it's conspiracy, but rather asking what can we do to prevent this. We focus largely on gun control, but I don't think it's as simple as having access to a gun or not...what makes someone want to use it?

There's clearly external stressors impacting these individuals- what are they? And why aren't we spending more time trying to figure this out. If asking these questions and wanting to know why people are driven to the point where they seek violence on innocent individuals is 'crazy conspiracy' than so be it. I'd rather ask the questions than just drone on without thinking about it.

I read an article about the 'warning' signs for the Moncton shooter, and one of the signs they suggested was 'pro-gun' and 'anti-establishment' promotion. I gotta say that this bothers me, that's pegging a lot of people as having 'warning signs' for mental health issues.

Yes, it is rather handy what these "warning signs" are, isn't it?

 

[muir]

Yes, it is rather handy what these "warning signs" are, isn't it?

Yes indeed...it's classic 'problem, reaction, solution' (Ike)

The el-ite want to achieve something (a clamp down against their political opponents) so they create a problem (an 'anti-authoritarian' involved in a shooting) to demonise the group they want to attack in the minds of the public (ie create a reaction from the public) so that they can then produce their pre-prepared solution (disarming their political opponents) which the riled up public will then accept

 

[say what]

This is interesting:

Reynolds High: (At Least) the 74th School Shooting Since Sandy Hook

Details are slowly emerging in the aftermath of this morning's shooting at Reynolds High School in Troutdale—in that we've learned, so far, that one student was shot and killed and that the shooter also is dead. As for whether anyone else was injured or whether the shooter also was a student? Officially unknown.

But here's something else that's pretty empirical: Since a gunman murdered 20 children in 2012's horrific shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary in Connecticut, gun safety advocates at Everytown USA have tracked some 73 other school shootings over the following year and half. And Reynolds High School just became number 74 on their list.

That's almost one every week. And this list only includes shootings at schools and universities, and probably undercounts the real total, because it's cobbled from media reports. NPR reported in January, meanwhile, that mass shootings everywhere are on the rise. We could talk about bulletproof blankets. Or sensible gun laws.

From: http://ht.ly/xQzZ9

Full list: http://everytown.org/article/school...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Full report : http://3gbwir1ummda16xrhf4do9d21bsx...nt/uploads/2014/04/SchoolShootingsReport1.pdf

 

[muir]

 

[say what]

Clearly there is a history and problem in schools - do you think there needs to be more security at schools? I think on one hand, this might help...but on the other, it would make school like a prison.

 

[just me]

Didn't someone burn down Atlanta a lo0ng time ago, [MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION] ?

 

[just me]

Not to disagree, but... well, actually... yes... to disagree. Guns make it too easy to kill people. It's like seeing two identical cars parked on a city street - one with doors locked and keys on the owner, and the other unlocked with keys in the ignition. Which do you think will be stolen first? Unstable, sociopathic, psychotic people will find the easiest means at their disposal to act on their desires. Why on Earth would you want to make it easy on them to play their delusions out with a gun?!

Call it what you want: society? Maybe the way things are?
Unstable, sociopathic, psychotic people are a product of it. Somebody call off their dogs.