Hate and Hatred

[Anomaly]

I've heard of this as well. A friend of mine once said to me, that the opposite of love wasn't hate, but apathy.
If so, is it better to hate somebody than to feel numb to them? to nothing them?
We can hate somebody we also love. But for somebody we are indifferent towards, there is no more.

I think I can stomach indifference more than hatred. Hatred, as I said before, stems from ignorance/hypocrisy/bitterness. It is a willful decision to poison yourself and somebody else. I think apathy is more a symptom of a greater problem inside the individual, something at root within that must be searched and sifted out. If you don't feel anything, if you continuously 'nothing' everyone around you, then there is an issue that must be addressed for you to connect in the ways you'd hope moving forward. I can feel compassion towards indifference, but I have very little compassion towards those who willfully choose hatred.

 

[Matty]

I think I can stomach indifference more than hatred. Hatred, as I said before, stems from ignorance/hypocrisy/bitterness. It is a willful decision to poison yourself and somebody else. I think apathy is more a symptom of a greater problem inside the individual, something at root within that must be searched and sifted out. If you don't feel anything, if you continuously 'nothing' everyone around you, then there is an issue that must be addressed for you to connect in the ways you'd hope moving forward. I can feel compassion towards indifference, but I have very little compassion towards those who willfully choose hatred.

Hating haters just means you're also a hater... If you lay aside rationalisations and justifications.

 

[Anomaly]

Hating haters just means you're also a hater... If you lay aside rationalisations and justifications.

I don't hate haters. I just don't associate with them. Lmao.

 

[dZpADTLrPmX4c]

Hating haters just means you're also a hater... If you lay aside rationalisations and justifications.

Would you say that lack of compassion is equatable with hatred?
Because my interpretation of her post was more the former than the latter.
I think it could be perceived either way, but I'd like clarification on your position.

It is a willful decision to poison yourself and somebody else.

Why is it a willful decision?

It isn't unusual to not want hateful or bitter people around our persons.
From a psychological perspective, it tends to 'turn off' the faucets to our empathy.



(edit: misspell)

 

[Matty]

Would you say that lack of compassion is equatable with hatred?
Because my interpretation of her post was more the former than the latter.
I think it could be perceived either way, but I'd like clarification on your position.

Love is an attraction, hatred is an aversion. If you're avoiding or eradicating something, you hate it.

I'm talking about the underlying affect or will, not about the semantics of the word "hate".

 

[Anomaly]

Why is it a willful decision?

It isn't unusual to not want hateful or bitter people around our persons.
From a psychological perspective, it tends to 'turn off' the faucets to our empathy.

(edit: misspell)

To hate someone? It is an active choice. Hatred implies more than a mere dislike or discomfort in someone else's presence. It is the means of active hostility and opposition to the very personhood of another, and in most cases, a mentality that you'd rather they didn't exist at all. There is a reason it is often associated with violence, ripping someone apart, or murder.

Disliking someone, being okay that they exist apart from you or not letting them into your inner circle, is entirely different. They are not synonymous, in my opinion.

 

[Anomaly]

To expound on this notion of hatred being active, just think of all of the most violent forms of prejudice in society and throughout history from one people group over another. Again, stemming from ignorance/hypocrisy/some perceived wrong.

I dislike a lot of people, but hating them? No. Wherever I'm ignorant or hypocritical or perceiving a wrong, I force myself to face it, so that I don't have to fall into that bitter mindset. It's difficult to come back from it once you do. Just my opinion.

 

[dZpADTLrPmX4c]

My personal understanding is closer to @Anomaly 's, though a little different. For me, cultivating hatred is an active choice, but the feeling of hatred is not.
There were times in my youth, I held great hatred for others. I didn't wish to hold it and desired to be free of it, but it persisted. This, to me, wasn't a choice to feel - but I could've nurtured it and hatred does often desire to be nurtured.
I didn't use my hatred to harm others, because it felt a poor justification for it. Over time, it faded.
The times where I have harmed others wasn't hatred but fury - a sudden overwhelming rush that dulls senses to a pinpoint of intent, but doesn't have the 'coldness' or lasting that hatred has.

To me, I see aversion as disliking something; it's less energy-intensive to avoid something. It isn't invasive. It's not intense. It's low-priority.
Hatred can be avoidant too, but often is something which pushes me to interfere with another; to eradicate them, dismantle their works, observe their suffering, and make myself antithetical to their being. For me it's an intensely malevolent 'possession' that makes me feel sick and poisoned; it isn't enjoyable and that makes it easier for me to let it wither. A felt wrongness about it is powerfully motivating to let it go.
[though these are relics of my past, it's understandable if you feel unsettled by them. I've never been perfect]

 

[Anomaly]

My personal understanding is closer to @Anomaly 's, though a little different. For me, cultivating hatred is an active choice, but the feeling of hatred is not.
There were times in my youth, I held great hatred for others. I didn't wish to hold it and desired to be free of it, but it persisted. This, to me, wasn't a choice to feel - but I could've nurtured it and hatred does often desire to be nurtured.
I didn't use my hatred to harm others, because it felt a poor justification for it. Over time, it faded.
The times where I have harmed others wasn't hatred but fury - a sudden overwhelming rush that dulls senses to a pinpoint of intent, but doesn't have the 'coldness' or lasting that hatred has.

To me, I see aversion as disliking something; it's less energy-intensive to avoid something. It isn't invasive. It's not intense. It's low-priority.
Hatred can be avoidant too, but often is something which pushes me to interfere with another; to eradicate them, dismantle their works, observe their suffering, and make myself antithetical to their being. For me it's an intensely malevolent 'possession' that makes me feel sick and poisoned; it isn't enjoyable and that makes it easier for me to let it wither. A felt wrongness about it is powerfully motivating to let it go.
[though these are relics of my past, it's understandable if you feel unsettled by them. I've never been perfect]

I understand why you make this distinction, and why you see it this way. I appreciate you sharing these facets of yourself, and explaining your viewpoints. <3

 

[FiftySeven]

I watched a sci fi show the other night where an AI screws over a human who had tortured her. She explains the the human that she really tried to forgive him but she just couldn't. She later breaks down in a full rage against humanity. Seems like a very authentic portrayal of hatred. Being wronged, understanding that you have been wronged, not being able or willing to forgive the wronging party and then acting out on those complexes of ideas and emotions.
Hatred is a strong concept and in my opinion most people who use "hate" as a word to describe their feelings or actions are misusing it.

 

[Wyote]

I love hatred. It gets a lot of shit done when channeled correctly.
It's holding onto it that's the problem.
Idc what feelings people have as long as they're attempting to process them and not directing them at me in unhealthy ways.

 

[acd]

I love hatred. It gets a lot of shit done when channeled correctly.
It's holding onto it that's the problem.
Idc what feelings people have as long as they're attempting to process them and not directing them at me in unhealthy ways.

This is how I feel about anger. It is a powerful emotion that can be channeled constructively to get shit done or make change. But if not careful, can fester into hatred and turn destructive.

Anger is the force of creation/destruction.

 

[Wyote]

This is how I feel about anger. It is a powerful emotion that can be channeled constructively to get shit done or make change. But if not careful, can fester into being destructive and turn to hatred.

Anger is the force of creation/destruction.

Yeah exactly. I feel like differentiating between anger and hatred is sort of splitting hairs. But also I don't think I've truly ever hated anyone, it's only momentary feelings of anger really. But it feels better to label it as hate, in order to process it more quickly.

 

[Wildfire]

On a functional level I embrace hating "things" but not people, out of respect for their humanity. An oversimplified example might be hating the lies and the destruction they cause, but not the liar, etc.

And I agree that hate is something we can feed to our own detriment. I'd just never label it as wholly wrong or bad. It's an emotion that contains valuable information.

I also disagree with the idea that hate is always a choice. But I do agree with the idea that it's possible to cultivate a big picture narrative that is so inclusive that hate is rarely experienced. It seems like that narrative would have to be "big" enough allow for a lot of "imperfection" though.

 

[slant]

What are your thoughts on hate and hatred?

What role do these things play in your life?

What role do you think that these things play in the lives of others?

And since we are participating in a typology community, do these things have any special significance to your personality type?

Hatred is a thought pattern. It's a choice.

When I was younger, I easily fell into dichotomous thinking: good or bad, right or wrong. I think the emotion of hatred falls on this spectrum because when we feel hatred towards a person or idea we are usually not seeing the nuance. It's an emotion, an expression of fear and hurt. It feels cathartic to hate something- anger is a protective mechanism and we sometimes hate something or somebody as a way of protecting ourselves.

What I've been learning in my life is that hatred doesn't serve a long term purpose for me. If I feel hatred I try to explore the feeling to get to the bottom of what is causing it. Even if I have legitimate grievances or a critique, hatred seems like such a forceful and limiting perspective to be at. You're still stuck in the rawness of an emotion that you haven't been able to fully process.

I struggle the most with feeling hatred towards people who I feel took actions that really hurt me- the only way to be able to avoid black and white thinking when it comes to that was to remind myself of times that I also have made mistakes, that I have also hurt others. Whatever you do to others you also end up doing to yourself and I have spent far too much of my life living in self hatred because I was raised to believe I didn't deserve to have self respect. Once I realized that there wasn't anything different about me and that everyone, no matter who they are and what they have done, deserve basic human dignity, the self hatred peeled away.

So much of hatred is about wanting to control the past or choices other people are making. It is an expression of helplessness and grief. You can take ownership of your emotions and funnel the emotion into something that serves you instead of what blinds you. Rage and anger are not the same as hatred. Hatred is a judgement. Rage is an action, usually of protectionism.

I fall into the thinking pattern on almost a daily basis because it was the behavior I was taught as a child. I don't like it and I'm working every day to identify these thoughts as they happen and reroute the thought to what I actually want it to be, but it will probably be a lifelong process for me. So much of what we learn as a child can become engrained in us. It is so hard to break away from childhood ideologies.

 

[dZpADTLrPmX4c]

I fall into the thinking pattern on almost a daily basis because it was the behavior I was taught as a child. I don't like it and I'm working every day to identify these thoughts as they happen and reroute the thought to what I actually want it to be, but it will probably be a lifelong process for me. So much of what we learn as a child can become engrained in us. It is so hard to break away from childhood ideologies.

I love you and love the growth you tend to in yourself <3

 

[Matty]

I love hatred. It gets a lot of shit done when channeled correctly.
It's holding onto it that's the problem.
Idc what feelings people have as long as they're attempting to process them and not directing them at me in unhealthy ways.

So you have a tantrum, and it works? How old are you?

 

[Deleted member 16771]

Both love and hate involve cathexis, which is a cool old word from psychoanalysis which 'is defined as the process of allocation of mental or emotional energy to a person, object, or idea', and which therefore you should definitely use to name a debuffing weapon in your next RPG.

I'm not so sure, however, that 'apathy' is somehow worse than hate. Yes, you're invested in the objects that you 'hate', but this would only be 'better' than apathy in a kind of narcissistic worldview whereby any attention is useful to keep the ego from swallowing itself in its own emptiness.

I've seen apathy used as a weapon, but this isn't really apathy, just a different manifestation of cathexis; to pretend that something does not exist involves its own expenditure of energy to maintain the fiction, and the snubs are no less 'active' for it therefore. True apathy is better described as 'tolerance' or 'acceptance'. Truly neutral attitudes are not harmful.

 

[dragulagu]

I'm not so sure, however, that 'apathy' is somehow worse than hate.

It absolutely is.

 

[Lady Jolanda]

To hate someone? It is an active choice. Hatred implies more than a mere dislike or discomfort in someone else's presence. It is the means of active hostility and opposition to the very personhood of another, and in most cases, a mentality that you'd rather they didn't exist at all. There is a reason it is often associated with violence, ripping someone apart, or murder.

Hmm. I agree with most of what you said except for the idea that hating someone is a choice.

Hatred is a feeling. Feelings are involuntary involuntarily. You don't choose your feelings, but you do choose how you respond to them.

I think I hate my mother, but I don't act upon that feeling.