Health Care Reform Defeated

[Shai Gar]

Therefore she's not a pet senator is she?

 

[Billy]

Therefore she's not a pet senator is she?

No, but she is the Queen Bee and can stop legislation cold when she wishes to. Especially since she does most of the organizing to get the senators to vote. A pet senator... not so much. Which is where Obama is off, Bushs pet Senator was the Leader of the Senate.

 

[Satya]

Its times like this that I smile, my fellow anti socialist compatriots across the country rise to defeat clearly bad legislation and direction by just holding forums and discussing it. Democracy in action.

You mean people let themselves be taken in by fear mongering talk of "death panels" and "government taking over the health care system" and run to town halls to bicker about legislation that none of them even read because someone stamped it as "socialist"? Yup, gotta love that democracy!

By the way America has ALWAYS been controlled by corporations, its kind of what America was invented for. You know the founders were all businessmen right? You know that the majority of the grievances against the King of England back then were financial in nature right? No Taxation without representation and all that. The revolution was not only a human rights campaign for American citizens at the time, it was a capitalist campaign to throw off the last vestiges of the old ways with a ruling class by blood. The new ruling class rules through business as it should be. Its inherently more fair than the nobility. Even the poorest man can begin a company and become rich.

Another great American myth. Frankly, the only poor people who make it in this day and age are those who win the lottery or are discovered by the entertainment industry.

 

[HaHa]

He needs to grow a pair of balls. Isn't this what he hired Rahm Emmanuel for? Go after the fucking DEMOCRATS! All of these first term, blue dog douchebags who rode in on YOUR coat tails. Tell them that any democrat in congress who doesn't vote for complete healthcare reform will find a primary opponent to their left in the next election endorsed by the President of the United States! This man told me he was ready to go to war for this issue. He told me that he watched as his grandmother had to call the insurance company again and again in her dying days to fight with them over paying for her care. So be a man and stand up and FIGHT! Seriously, people wonder why everyone thinks the Democratic Party has no backbone. Could you ever imagine the Republicans backing down on this sort of an issue with a massive congressional advantage and the mandate of an 8 point victory in the last presidential election?

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr..........

 

[mallory knox]

Its times like this that I smile, my fellow anti socialist compatriots across the country rise to defeat clearly bad legislation and direction by just holding forums and discussing it. Democracy in action.

By the way America has ALWAYS been controlled by corporations, its kind of what America was invented for. You know the founders were all businessmen right? You know that the majority of the grievances against the King of England back then were financial in nature right? No Taxation without representation and all that. The revolution was not only a human rights campaign for American citizens at the time, it was a capitalist campaign to throw off the last vestiges of the old ways with a ruling class by blood. The new ruling class rules through business as it should be. Its inherently more fair than the nobility. Even the poorest man can begin a company and become rich.

you are exceptionally smart aren't you?

i'm like

so

impressed.

 

[Billy]

You mean people let themselves be taken in by fear mongering talk of "death panels" and "government taking over the health care system" and run to town halls to bicker about legislation that none of them even read because someone stamped it as "socialist"? Yup, gotta love that democracy!

Are you saying that democracy in which action leads to an outcome you dislike is not real democracy? Shocking!

Another great American myth. Frankly, the only poor people who make it in this day and age are those who win the lottery or are discovered by the entertainment industry.

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha *deep breath* hahahahahahahaha... im sorry I just had to laugh at your completely incorrect, bitter and pathetic response. I am not trying to be mean but you are seriously mistaken. Like not even close, so off the mark mistaken that its really not that funny after all, I apologize for laughing. Its not a laughing matter.

 

[Billy]

you are exceptionally smart aren't you?

i'm like

so

impressed.

If I am coming off as someone who is trying to look book smart, please understand that that is not my intention. That however does not change history.And facts are facts.

 

[mallory knox]

don't worry, you're not coming off as very smart.

 

[Billy]

don't worry, you're not coming off as very smart.

That's ok, I can accept and understand that you are angry that the socialist plan is dead for the time being. I will not allow your anger to pollute my joy that this has come to pass.

 

[TheLastMohican]

And you can't really argue against universal health care based on ethics...

Anti-statists can.

Frankly, the only poor people who make it in this day and age are those who win the lottery or are discovered by the entertainment industry.

Yes, but the causes of this are rather circular: increased government regulations made it a lot harder for the little guy to start a business; the established businesses suffered a bit from the inefficiencies, but benefited from the lack of smaller upstarts to compete with; monopolies were formed and then cracked down upon with more regulations; finally, some areas of big business gained enough influence over government to craft restrictions on their competitors (sometimes also on themselves, but advantageous because they were big enough to absorb the costs).
It is clearly harder for poor people to rise now than it was when they were getting off the boats at Ellis Island, especially with education requirements for licenses. The "land of opportunity" has evolved into a sort of money-based (as opposed to blood-based) feudal system.

 

[mallory knox]

That's ok, I can accept and understand that you are angry that the socialist plan is dead for the time being. I will not allow your anger to pollute my joy that this has come to pass.

you do understand that the majority of the countries with public health care are not socialist right?

also, that i am not a socialist, right?

or the joy you claim to be feeling is the joy of knowning poor people are going to continue losing their assets or suffering or even dying?

just making sure.

 

[Billy]

Anti-statists can.



Yes, but the causes of this are rather circular: increased government regulations made it a lot harder for the little guy to start a business; the established businesses suffered a bit from the inefficiencies, but benefited from the lack of smaller upstarts to compete with; monopolies were formed and then cracked down upon with more regulations; finally, some areas of big business gained enough influence over government to craft restrictions on their competitors (sometimes also on themselves, but advantageous because they were big enough to absorb the costs).
It is clearly harder for poor people to rise now than it was when they were getting off the boats at Ellis Island, especially with education requirements for licenses. The "land of opportunity" has evolved into a sort of money-based (as opposed to blood-based) feudal system.

This is untrue though and short sighted. If you want to go into business for yourself, I highly doubt you are going to form a phone company or cable TV service or something that has been done to death. If that's the only way you think a company can make money then you are not seeing the larger picture. Capitalists don't sit around and try to break into old markets, they look at whats going on and try to figure out a new market.

Here is something you can consider.

My friend Wayne had nothing to him when he set out to make his 1st million. He had a bleh job working unloading shipments on a dock for 15 dollars an hour. Pretty average stuff. He started saving his money up and eventually hit 10,000 dollars. He dumped that 10K into a small condo, had a few friends over we fixed it up, put in some wood floors painted it, ripped older walls down to give it a more open feel. He sold that condo the following year. So after 1 year of paying roughly 1100 a month into this thing he gets all that money back, his initial investment of 10K plus the profit which I believe he made an additional 20K from improvements and selling to the right market.

He basically had around 45K he bought some land in Southern Maine. No house, just land. He then clearcut a few acres of woodland he bought. Sold the wood in Connecticut after it had seasoned at a few hundred a cord during one of the worst winters ever. He made over 150K for 6 months work. He took 90K of that and built a gorgeous house. the rest he spent on more land adjacent to his lot where he cut those trees, sold them and profited. On one portion of that land he has a small mill he built where he stores lumber, he went out and bought a couple trucks and chainsaws and now he runs a very successful tree removal business in CT and Maine. People pay him to come to thier home, cut down a tree and remove the tree, the tree is then cut and put into his lumber pile which he liquidates in the winter months. He has added on to his house and its worth well over 400K now. He is considering selling it liquidating his business and buying a 100 acres of land he can then develope into a small to medium sized plaza in which other companies and businesses will pay him rent and maintanance fees.

Long winded I know, but thats how he made his 1st million from close to nothing.

I know 10 guys just like him who are living in mansions.

My brother Rick started a website development company that builds sites for hot restauraunts and bars, he is making a killing linking them all together. He finnally took the next step and hired a staff recently he now employs 4 people under him.

The money is there, the opporitunity is there, people just need to snap out of this industrial revolution mentality and stop working for money and figure out how to make money work for them.

 

[Billy]

you do understand that the majority of the countries with public health care are not socialist right?

How do you define socialist? I think that unfortunately the USA is a little socialist, and I know Europe is WAY more socialist than we are... Public Health Care IS a socialist idea and program... if your country has it, its at least a little socialist.

also, that i am not a socialist, right?

I don't know you. I know that you endorse a socialist idea about health reform though. If that makes you a socialist or not is irrelevant I don't judge people according to titles, I judge them according to their actions.

or the joy you claim to be feeling is the joy of knowing poor people are going to continue losing their assets or suffering or even dying?

Sounds like they need to either get a job, get a better job, or get a clue and stop working for other people and start their own business. The only thing it would require of them is hard work, effort, courage and stamina... I know I know, impossible. And the poor by definition do not have assets. And even if they did, well, you want to dance you gotta pay the piper. Better luck next time. Its not my obligation to worry about all mankind. I can only take care of me and my mine. If that makes me heartless, well sorry I guess I am heartless. I know a lot about mankind though and I have been through all rungs of my society and nothing is ever as bad as it seems. There is a way for people to get out of their poorness, but is there a will?

just making sure.

Glad we cleared that up.

 

[Creon]

Sounds like they need to either get a job, get a better job, or get a clue and stop working for other people and start their own business. The only thing it would require of them is hard work, effort, courage and stamina....

The Protestant Ethic at it's finest.

 

[TheLastMohican]

If you want to go into business for yourself, I highly doubt you are going to form a phone company or cable TV service or something that has been done to death. If that's the only way you think a company can make money then you are not seeing the larger picture. Capitalists don't sit around and try to break into old markets, they look at whats going on and try to figure out a new market.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I said companies can't capitalize on new markets. Of course that happens all the time, with so many technologies being developed each decade. New markets also crop up based on the effects of legislation.
But that's beside the point. The bulk of the economy consists of long-lived, stable markets, and those are a lot harder to break into than they were 100 years ago. The early monopolies (e.g., The Phone Company and Standard Oil) were problematic because they were able to suppress new innovations and better practices in the field, which otherwise might have been considered "new markets."

 

[Billy]

The Protestant Ethic at it's finest.

Which is funny, I was raised catholic, and i'm an atheist.

 

[Creon]

Which is funny, I was raised catholic, and i'm an atheist.

Hmmm. It has nothing to do with your religion. More with how protestantism affected capitalism. Or should I say, gave birth to capitalism.

It's the idea that work is the means to achieve everything.

 

[Billy]

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I said companies can't capitalize on new markets. Of course that happens all the time, with so many technologies being developed each decade. New markets also crop up based on the effects of legislation.
But that's beside the point. The bulk of the economy consists of long-lived, stable markets, and those are a lot harder to break into than they were 100 years ago. The early monopolies (e.g., The Phone Company and Standard Oil) were problematic because they were able to suppress new innovations and better practices in the field, which otherwise might have been considered "new markets."

I just think its not harder to break in now, with the internet, media as it is, education, life expectancy etc there has never been a better time to be an entrepreneur or a capitalist. Granted the only thing making it truly harder to break in, isn't competition, capitalism thrives on that, its the government and social policies and taxes that make it harder.

 

[mallory knox]

How do you define socialist? I think that unfortunately the USA is a little socialist, and I know Europe is WAY more socialist than we are... Public Health Care IS a socialist idea and program... if your country has it, its at least a little socialist.

I don't know you. I know that you endorse a socialist idea about health reform though. If that makes you a socialist or not is irrelevant I don't judge people according to titles, I judge them according to their actions.



Sounds like they need to either get a job, get a better job, or get a clue and stop working for other people and start their own business. The only thing it would require of them is hard work, effort, courage and stamina... I know I know, impossible. And the poor by definition do not have assets. And even if they did, well, you want to dance you gotta pay the piper. Better luck next time. Its not my obligation to worry about all mankind. I can only take care of me and my mine. If that makes me heartless, well sorry I guess I am heartless. I know a lot about mankind though and I have been through all rungs of my society and nothing is ever as bad as it seems. There is a way for people to get out of their poorness, but is there a will?


Glad we cleared that up.

Redo all your tests. You're not INFJ.

The fact that people like you exist and say these things makes me dizzy and sad.

Too bad all of the us has to pay the price of your horrid selfish beliefs.

Until it comes back and bites you in the ass, which unavoidably will.

It's everyone's obligation to worry about all mankind.

 

[Billy]

Redo all your tests. You're not INFJ.

The fact that people like you exist and say these things makes me dizzy and sad.

Too bad all of the us has to pay the price of your horrid selfish beliefs.

Until it comes back and bites you in the ass, which unavoidably will.

It's everyone's obligation to worry about all mankind.

I am not sure what you think being an INFJ means, but I think you lack a basic understanding for how MBTI works. Your health and well being are not my obligation, they are yours.