Hey anybody out there?

[Barnabas]

How is it off topic? We're talking about religion, are we not? If you don't want non christian thought in this thread then I'll refrain from posting here, but I personally think it relates very much to religion.

I have a question, are there any other devoted Christians in this forum. I almost feel alone out here?

And if so what kind are you and what are your beliefs?

also do you believe that Jesus is the Christ the risen lord and your Savior?(sorry if it sounds like I'm trying to baptize you[I'm not])

you neither addressed the question or added to the topic whether or not there are more Christians in this forum. you simply stated that you dislike religion

 

[Barnabas]

Also I know that I should have mentioned it before, but could we keep our posts free of unnecessary and vulgar language.

 

[bamf]

you neither addressed the question or added to the topic whether or not there are more Christians in this forum. you simply stated that you dislike religion

I am a Christian, but I don't agree with many of the beliefs proposed in this thread. I don't think that God chooses people over others or that people on a path other than Christianity will be banished to hell.

I said I'd rather be banished to hell than spend forever with such a God. My Christianity might not be yours, but it's still Christianity.

I'll leave the thread if you want me to but I'd enjoy discussing with you.

 

[Barnabas]

I am a Christian, but I don't agree with many of the beliefs proposed in this thread. I don't think that God chooses people over others or that people on a path other than Christianity will be banished to hell.

I said I'd rather be banished to hell than spend forever with such a God. My Christianity might not be yours, but it's still Christianity.

I'll leave the thread if you want me to but I'd enjoy discussing with you.

I wouldn't ask you to leave, but instead simply keep on topic. Then from there expand on the questions.

 

[Raccoon Love]

Threads like this just make me doubt God and God even more, it's simply just sad how close-minded this views can be..Why would God create a place like hell in the first place? perhaps he likes it when we suffer for eternity...How can a God who is said to have compassion above anything else and is said to love of us over anything else do such a thing, how can a God who is said to be able to do the impossible, be so close minded? why does he condemn people who follow other religions so harshly? what If I were to be confuse do to the fact that I was raised a certain way, follow my own spiritual path, live a right of righteousness, but never accepted god in my life? would that send me to hell? what if I were to be gay but love God with all my heart? would I still go to hell if I don't repent? that's almost like racism, discriminating someone because of our sexual orientation, ahh how nice god turn out to be...I would prefer to burn in hell then being around someone who is so narrow...Im sorry if this sounds quite rude but Im appalled by this views.

 

[youhemmein]

Know what I don't get? Why is it that people preach tolerance to every belief system but Christianity? And before you rebut with "because Christianity breeds intolerance," try to keep your response in perspective. True Christianity is not based in legalism, or hate, or intolerance. It's based in love. The teachings of Jesus all came back to love. All other virtues are, in my opinion, by-products of living love. The major flaw with the Christian church today is that it fails to recognize it is propagating hate by condemning sin, but it does not back its doctrine up with the promise of grace and unconditional acceptance by the Creator. This is why I cannot be comfortable in the Christian church, Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox or otherwise. I don't believe God created us to go about rebuking and condemning all sinners. In fact, the very opposite is true. The God of the Bible says to love eachother. Why do we miss this? Is it easier to rebuke and blame than to accept because we are afraid to pull the plank out of our own eye? This is not the nature of God, and it makes me sad to see Him represented this way. Obedience has its place, for believers, but doesn't grace abound for all who are willing to accept it?

I've been turning some things over in my mind about what I believe. If anybody wants to read it, I will probably put it on my blog thread tonight or tomorrow.

 

[sassafras]

Threads like this just make me doubt God and God even more, it's simply just sad how close-minded this views can be..Why would God create a place like hell in the first place? perhaps he likes it when we suffer for eternity...How can a God who is said to have compassion above anything else and is said to love of us over anything else do such a thing, how can a God who is said to be able to do the impossible, be so close minded? why does he condemn people who follow other religions so harshly? what If I were to be confuse do to the fact that I was raised a certain way, follow my own spiritual path, live a right of righteousness, but never accepted god in my life? would that send me to hell? what if I were to be gay but love God with all my heart? would I still go to hell if I don't repent? that's almost like racism, discriminating someone because of our sexual orientation, ahh how nice god turn out to be...I would prefer to burn in hell then being around someone who is so narrow...Im sorry if this sounds quite rude but Im appalled by this views.

Hmm. I think you're looking at hell as an actual, physical place full of fire and brimstone and all sort of nasty-looking medieval torture devices. That's just a symbolic representation, a metaphor. Hell can be any sort of personal suffering; the bad-karma if you will. Hell is a state of mind, not something conjured up by a special effects studio. God doesn't damn you, you damn yourself in the sense that there will be consequences to your actions. A hell of your own making.

But then you'll get me to launch into the symbolic aspects of the doctrine, and Christian existentialism isn't something a lot of Christians are comfortable talking about.

But you're absolutely right about one thing: I don't think God punishes those who live good and righteous lives either. Regardless if they're gay or Buddhist or non-Christian, etc. I believe those 'scare tactics' are more political than religious.

 

[sassafras]

Know what I don't get? Why is it that people preach tolerance to every belief system but Christianity? And before you rebut with "because Christianity breeds intolerance," try to keep your response in perspective. True Christianity is not based in legalism, or hate, or intolerance. It's based in love. The teachings of Jesus all came back to love. All other virtues are, in my opinion, by-products of living love. The major flaw with the Christian church today is that it fails to recognize it is propagating hate by condemning sin, but it does not back its doctrine up with the promise of grace and unconditional acceptance by the Creator. This is why I cannot be comfortable in the Christian church, Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox or otherwise. I don't believe God created us to go about rebuking and condemning all sinners. In fact, the very opposite is true. The God of the Bible says to love eachother. Why do we miss this? Is it easier to rebuke and blame than to accept because we are afraid to pull the plank out of our own eye? This is not the nature of God, and it makes me sad to see Him represented this way. Obedience has its place, for believers, but doesn't grace abound for all who are willing to accept it?

This.

And I'd love to read your take on it all, youhemmein.

 

[Raccoon Love]

Hmm. I think you're looking at hell as an actual, physical place full of fire and brimstone and all sort of nasty-looking medieval torture devices. That's just a symbolic representation, a metaphor. Hell can be any sort of personal suffering; the bad-karma if you will. Hell is a state of mind, not something conjured up by a special effects studio. God doesn't damn you, you damn yourself in the sense that there will be consequences to your actions. A hell of your own making.

But then you'll get me to launch into the symbolic aspects of the doctrine, and Christian existentialism isn't something a lot of Christians are comfortable talking about.

But you're absolutely right about one thing: I don't think God punishes those who live good and righteous lives either. Regardless if they're gay or Buddhist or non-Christian, etc. I believe those 'scare tactics' are more political than religious.

even if it was this way, it does not justify that people who have lived a good life, following correct ethics suffer mentally either. but I see what your getting at, I do not believe all Christians posses this very negative views, I just think the bible and the whole church system in general needs some revising.

 

[Barnabas]

I can't believe how far this thread has progressed. It fills my heart with joy

 

[sassafras]

even if it was this way, it does not justified that people who have lived a good life, following correct ethics suffer mentally either. but I see what your getting at, I do not believe all Christians posses this very negative views, I just think the bible and the whole church system in general needs some revising.

Whether you believe in a Christian God, or any other God, or no God at all, people are going to suffer, whether they're good or bad. Sometimes because of their own decisions, or sometimes because of the decisions of others. We're all interconnected. If we want to cease suffering, I think we should love more and hate less, and think through the consequences of our actions.

And yes, I agree the whole church system needs some revising. The way the Bible is being interpreted, needs revising. It is extremely easy to take things literally and out of context. For some reason, we seem dulled to differentiate between symbols, metaphors, and factual truths.

 

[the]

I have a question, are there any other devoted Christians in this forum. I almost feel alone out here?

And if so what kind are you and what are your beliefs?

also do you believe that Jesus is the Christ the risen lord and your Savior?(sorry if it sounds like I'm trying to baptize you[I'm not])

I'm a Christian who attends Orthodox Catholic services. I have been since this year actually. I have been christian for mostly my whole life with a little period of agnosticism.

Not only is He my savior, He is the Savior of the World.

 

[Raccoon Love]

I also have a hard time relating to religion in general, there are so many, how do you know which is the correct way? specially if you follow another one you get condemn, even if you were a good person. There are so many religions...all preaching the same ''positive'' messages but at the same time have views that even go against what they teach themselves such as compassion, tolerance and understanding, I really hate it when such negative views are emphasized, and it has been turning me away..no matter what i always find something negative, for example religion has caused many troubles, wars etc, just because of a blind belief..why would God allow for so many to form? to cause wars and pain? Sometimes I find religion from letting us advanced as people, since it just condemns mostly about every single thing which I don't believe are bad. I also get annoyed at the fact that many religions have turned into ''organizations'', big collectors of money that get rich from faithful offerings, if you look at a lot of this famous preachers of true, you would see a lot of them with huge mansions, nice cars etc, and then they make you feel bad if your unable to pay..by making offering almost as mandatory as any other rule, they focus on such details like making the church pretty, or having this huge churches with high tech just to keep people from boredom instead of focusing on actually helping and aiding others, I could go on and on about what things I don't agree with....

 

[Barnabas]

I'm a Christian who attends Orthodox Catholic services. I have been since this year actually. I have been christian for mostly my whole life with a little period of agnosticism.

Not only is He my savior, He is the Savior of the World.

this one speaks truths.

 

[arbygil]

So your saying that man can be told about god, but only God can bring them to belief. Please tell me if I'm wrong

No, you're right. That's what I believe. I think it's an ongoing work, but unless the person is ready (and we don't have that ability to know) they won't accept it.

 

[Barnabas]

No, you're right. That's what I believe. I think it's an ongoing work, but unless the person is ready (and we don't have that ability to know) they won't accept it.

Are views are similar. we differ really only on where the on-going work starts.

 

[Ria]

I also have a hard time relating to religion in general, there are so many, how do you know which is the correct way? specially if you follow another one you get condemn, even if you were a good person. There are so many religions...all preaching the same ''positive'' messages but at the same time have views that even go against what they teach themselves such as compassion, tolerance and understanding, I really hate it when such negative views are emphasized, and it has been turning me away..no matter what i always find something negative, for example religion has caused many troubles, wars etc, just because of a blind belief..why would God allow for so many to form? to cause wars and pain? Sometimes I find religion from letting us advanced as people, since it just condemns mostly about every single thing which I don't believe are bad. I also get annoyed at the fact that many religions have turned into ''organizations'', big collectors of money that get rich from faithful offerings, if you look at a lot of this famous preachers of true, you would see a lot of them with huge mansions, nice cars etc, and then they make you feel bad if your unable to pay..by making offering almost as mandatory as any other rule, we focus on such details like making the church pretty, or having this huge churches with high tech just to keep people from boredom instead of focusing on actually helping and aiding others, I could go on and on about what things I don't agree with....

Racoon Love you make some excellent points again! :tea:

 

[arbygil]

Are views are similar. we differ really only on where the on-going work starts.

*Nod.* Where do you feel the ongoing work starts?

 

[Barnabas]

*Nod.* Where do you feel the ongoing work starts?

the imediatley during the baptism. And the philisophically correct name for the work is called justification and regeneration.

Jack cottrel wrote a book on it, he also dedicated several chapters to it in his book call "the faith once for all"

 

[arbygil]

the imediatley during the baptism. And the philisophically correct name for the work is called justification and regeneration.

Jack cottrel wrote a book on it, he also dedicated several chapters to it in his book call "the faith once for all"

Ok. I wouldn't say the saving grace comes during Baptism because Baptism (to me) is an event by the believer agreeing with the identification of Christ (a public acknowledgment, if you will). I don't believe that the act of Baptism itself is the ongoing work. I can be a symbol of it, but it's not necessarily the ongoing work. Especially since some people have not been Baptized. But then, do you mean water baptism, or Spirit baptism?