[INFJ] How confident are you in your type?

I’m of the INFJ/INTJ variant. The difference got bigger as I got older. I was pretty academically minded through my twenties and in that setting, I became more INTJ-like, at least in answering the test questions. Going to INTJ sub-forums however, I did not feel like I fit in with the INTJs. There is a tone of speaking and a way of thinking that I did not identify with.
 
hauteur said:
But, really, my goal here (right this second) isn't to try to type myself - I'm just wondering how others feel about this. Are you confident in your type? If so, how did you get to that point? If not, why not? Is it even possible? Is there something inherently broken in MBTI or is it just a proclivity of INFJs? Or am I the only one?
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I'm pretty confident that INFJ is best fit for me, but it's taken me 20 years to get there and the final steps really needed interaction with the good people on this forum with the same type. While I say best fit, it isn't perfect, but it's good enough and better than the other types. I share your experience of researching the books and web sites - the feeling you are starting to get somewhere, starting to commit to one of the types, then the bit of vertigo when you find later that it doesn't really fit after all, and then finding it might again, and then not again, and so on ..... The trouble I found with getting inside the skin of INFJ is that Ni is not easy to grasp as a concept, and Fe seems to be badly described almost everywhere I looked. It was recognising Se as my inferior that was the key for me and I was left wondering why something so obvious hadn't occurred to me before - I've been knocking things over and bashing my shins on things and infesting inanimate objects with obstructive personalities all my life, and live in a dream a lot of the time.

Like you, I've got some reservations about what it actually means, both theoretically and in practice. When you read Jung you get the strong impression that while he was interested philosophically in creating a psychology of the conscious, his primary focus was on the unconscious mind. One of his needs was for a typology that would determine correctly each of his patient's inferior functions, the gateway to the unconscious as he saw it, without which he found empirically that he could cause great damage to their psychological health by creating strong patient transference problems (ie they became impossibly dependent on the therapist). In one of the several forewords to Jung's Psychological types, he warns about using his typology incorrectly: "...this kind of classification is nothing but a childish parlour game, every bit as futile as the division of mankind into brachycephalics and dolichocephalics." I think a lot of contemporary MBTI falls into this trap. It's well worth reading popular accounts of Jung's psychology of the unconscious - I like Joland Jacobi's books for example - and his autobiography "Memories, Dreams, Reflections" is a great read. These won't clarify the nuts and bolts of MBTI but they give us a context.

Like @charlatan (who knows a lot more than I do about typology) suggests MBTI does actually differentiate people into useful and fairly consistent behaviour patterns at a coarse level. As I said recently in another thread, I was first typed on a management course of 22 people - they then split us up into type groups and gave us tasks and it was pretty eye-opening to see how well the outcomes fit the type descriptions. Another example: it can be a very useful aid to thinking about how to put together a presentation or a report, taking into account the preferences of each of the types for how they process information and form judgements.

I sometimes wonder if it would have been helpful for me to know my type when I was young so I could have taken advantage of the understanding it would have given me. I've got very mixed feelings about that - people tend to grow into the shape of the box they are placed in. I have had a number of roles in my time that don't fit INFJ at all well - yes, they were stressful, but I was successful at them and enjoyed them. If I had been over-influenced by my type, I may never have taken those things on, which would have been a loss. But then I might have considered other things that I didn't do - taken on more people-orientated roles perhaps. On the whole, I think I was probably better off not knowing - but one thing I would very much like to have known long ago is how to manage empathy!
 
John K said:
The trouble I found with getting inside the skin of INFJ is that Ni is not easy to grasp as a concept, and Fe seems to be badly described almost everywhere I looked.
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True that. It requires quite a bit of time to understand Ni and Fe. I initially was convinced I used Ne and Fi because I relied on what I found in test descriptions and rather general MBTI articles. Best way to be misguided about one's true type in my opinion - unless one is perhaps close to an "archetypal" type, if that even make any sense (probably not).

Truthfully, Fe is the function that took me longest to fathom. "Fi is selfish! Fe is selfless!" was a cognitive bias inherited from those early test descriptions that kept sticking in my mind for a long time. It's really when I got to explore the depth of functional description that I settled on my type. But in the past I have toyed with the ideas of being INTP, INTJ, INFP, ENFP and ENTP ^^ Some funny ideas like:

"Hmm, I like to help people but I'm not a helper... maybe I'm Fe-tertiary! ENTP!"
"Hmm, I'm empathic but I'm self-absorbed... maybe I'm Fi-aux! ENFP!"
"Hmm, I'm too rational to be Ti-tertiary... ENTP or INTP!"
"Hmm, I'm too sensitive to be INTP... INFP!"

@John K I admire the fact you took 20 years to get where you are regarding your type. I think 20 years are solid ground for believing you have found your type :) INFJ N-subtype for the win!
 
It actually took years before I even looked at the cognitive functions. I hate to admit it, but I was actually put off by people on forums using it as... I don't even know. Like an elite language that felt like it was deeper than I wanted to go. I just saw stuff like, "Oh, that's because your Fi is undeveloped," or, "they are nothing alike. INTP is FiNeSiTe and...." I would see stuff like that and I'd immediately move on.

I'm pretty sure that lack of digging in stunted me unnecessarily. Instead, I spent a lot of time getting tripped up on the J/P and F/T dichotomies. I still think J/P has been the most misunderstood aspect of MBTI. I get torn over whether I think it was a bad addition or not. Mostly, I just think its horribly misunderstood, even in Myers' original test. Because of it, I got stuck between INTP and INTJ for the longest time. INFJ and INFP hung around on the periphery, but there was no way I could be a feeler. @Ren, I can totally relate to your battle of the types. @charlatan, I wish I could apply objectivity to my own type like you seem to - it's easy with other people. With me, not so much.

@John K, I've also wondered how things would be different if I had known my type when I was younger. I like how you said that we grow into the shape of the box we're put into. I've been doing software development (and other assorted sundries) for the past 20 years. Most INFJ descriptions would never even consider that as a possibility. I'm supposed to be a social worker or something of that sort - or, at the very least, a writer or musician (which I am, coincidentally), or some other creative pursuit. I've thought of my time doing software development as an adaptation of that. To me, writing software is a creative process - it's an odd blend of science and art.

But, as I think about this, I wanted nothing to do with computers growing up. I wanted to be a Jedi when I was super young (true story), then a ventriloquist. Then something else, and then a writer, and then a musician, then after my parents beat it into my head I'd never succeed as a musician, I wanted to open a music store, and THEN I took an introductory software development class and found out I was really good at it.

Hmm. Me thinks there might be a common thread, and none of them are remotely INTJ/INTP. Even in grade school (10-12 yrs old), I hung out kids with who were likely the INTPs and INTJs (as I think back), but I wasn't really like them. I mean, I was, but I wasn't. We got along well, but I wasn't into the sciency stuff like they were. Wow. Sorry if I'm rambling, but it's one of those things where you've looked at it a thousand times, but maybe never from that perspective....

Huh. Thanks, @John K!
 
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hauteur said:
I've thought of my time doing software development as an adaptation of that. To me, writing software is a creative process - it's an odd blend of science and art.
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Couldn't agree more. If you are working in teams it's actually quite demanding in people skills too.
 
MBTI is not perfect. It isn't even (technically) science. But it's as good an indicator of cognitive preferences as I've encountered, and I have studied them all to some extent. In my opinion (for what that's worth) it does the best job of positing a framework that at least fits most people and is somewhat reliable and observable.

That said - if I'm not INTP, then as far as I'm concerned the whole thing can be thrown out. My preferences, scientifically observable and otherwise, consistently exhibit each characteristic of the function stack.
 
Ren said:
@John K I admire the fact you took 20 years to get where you are regarding your type. I think 20 years are solid ground for believing you have found your type :) INFJ N-subtype for the win!
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Oh yes Ren! I've been through a few types like @Reverist and yourself. I started with INTP {borderline J) then went to INFP before getting to INFJ. My interest has been intermittent though - looked at it again this Spring for the first time in about 10 years. It can become quite obsessive can't it. Just a thought - what the three of us have described seems to include quite a bit of Ni / Ti looping during our searches for clarity. That would perhaps add support to the idea of type INFJ for you Reverist.
 
John K said:
Oh yes Ren! I've been through a few types like @Reverist and yourself. I started with INTP {borderline J) then went to INFP before getting to INFJ. My interest has been intermittent though - looked at it again this Spring for the first time in about 10 years. It can become quite obsessive can't it. Just a thought - what the three of us have described seems to include quite a bit of Ni / Ti looping during our searches for clarity. That would perhaps add support to the idea of type INFJ for you Reverist.
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Haha, my experience was relatively similar ^^ Borderline J INTP definitely sounds familiar.

According to @Lady Jolanda my stack is more like this: Ni, Ti, Fe, Se. But then how come I'm not that introverted :wateven: :thinkinghard:

Wizard @infinite dreams, help!

John K said:
Just a thought - what the three of us have described seems to include quite a bit of Ni / Ti looping during our searches for clarity.
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I think I know what you mean, but would you mind developing that thought on clarity and looping? I'm quite interested.
 
According to @Lady Jolanda my stack is more like this: Ni, Ti, Fe, Se. But then how come I'm not that introverted :wateven: :thinkinghard:

Wizard @infinite dreams, help!
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Those who lead with a perceiving function (such as Ni) would naturally exhibit their judging functions more fluidly. So I can certainly see where you or someone else might think of you as either a "T" or "F," almost as if they're interchangeable. Because in truth, it is easier for you to manifest either, than someone who leads with a judging function. The reverse of the same is also true (as a J-dom I find it quite simple to switch between, and blend together, my perceiving functions).

As to Jolanda's idea - MBTI all boils down to preference, which is not the easiest thing for others to observe. What she perceives from you is a greater usage of Ti than Fe. Her interpretation may or may not match your actual preferences or she may be observing that side of you in closer detail.

For your last comment - INFJs can seem quite extroverted at times because you guys love to communicate with people you connect with. Like, really. No, seriously. More direct, focused and personal communication than many extroverts, I would wager.
 
infinite dreams said:
Those who lead with a perceiving function (such as Ni) would naturally exhibit their judging functions more fluidly. So I can certainly see where you or someone else might think of you as either a "T" or "F," almost as if they're interchangeable. Because in truth, it is easier for you to manifest either, than someone who leads with a judging function. The reverse of the same is also true (as a J-dom I find it quite simple to switch between, and blend together, my perceiving functions).

As to Jolanda's idea - MBTI all boils down to preference, which is not the easiest thing for others to observe. What she perceives from you is a greater usage of Ti than Fe. Her interpretation may or may not match your actual preferences or she may be observing that side of you in closer detail.

For your last comment - INFJs can seem quite extroverted at times because you guys love to communicate with people you connect with. Like, really. No, seriously. More direct, focused and personal communication than many extroverts, I would wager.
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Really interesting and detailed as always. Thank you professor! ;)
 
John K said:
Oh yes Ren! I've been through a few types like @Reverist and yourself. I started with INTP {borderline J) then went to INFP before getting to INFJ. My interest has been intermittent though - looked at it again this Spring for the first time in about 10 years. It can become quite obsessive can't it. Just a thought - what the three of us have described seems to include quite a bit of Ni / Ti looping during our searches for clarity....
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That's a really good point - although, like @Ren - I'm not sure I have much clarity in what the Ni/Ti loop really looks like. I've seen several people mention it, but there seems to be very little about what it actually looks like outside of what can be inferred from its usage. One thing about it saw that really resonated was the idea that Fe looks outward, so we naturally have a hard time using it on ourselves. Ti, on the other hand, is focused internally AND it prefers exactness - so we can keep digging at it, trying to find something that looks like a better fit. Unfortunately, I can't find that again. It was some blog post or another.

infinite dreams said:
Those who lead with a perceiving function (such as Ni) would naturally exhibit their judging functions more fluidly. So I can certainly see where you or someone else might think of you as either a "T" or "F," almost as if they're interchangeable. Because in truth, it is easier for you to manifest either, than someone who leads with a judging function. The reverse of the same is also true (as a J-dom I find it quite simple to switch between, and blend together, my perceiving functions).

As to Jolanda's idea - MBTI all boils down to preference, which is not the easiest thing for others to observe. What she perceives from you is a greater usage of Ti than Fe. Her interpretation may or may not match your actual preferences or she may be observing that side of you in closer detail.

For your last comment - INFJs can seem quite extroverted at times because you guys love to communicate with people you connect with. Like, really. No, seriously. More direct, focused and personal communication than many extroverts, I would wager.
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Those are some really good points too. If I run into someone I actually connect with, you can't shut me up. Like, for real. Otherwise, I just kind of blend into the background, even when I don't want to.

Also, I wonder if the potential to shift between the two functions makes it easy to downplay one function or the other. In some settings, people have told me that I seem emotionless, but in others, I've heard that I should never ever play poker. But I also swore I was an INTJ for many years. Probably ten or more.
 
hauteur said:
In some settings, people have told me that I seem emotionless, but in others, I've heard that I should never ever play poker. But I also swore I was an INTJ for many years.
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Twins :lol:
 
infinite dreams said:
For your last comment - INFJs can seem quite extroverted at times because you guys love to communicate with people you connect with. Like, really. No, seriously. More direct, focused and personal communication than many extroverts, I would wager.
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I can't speak for other INFJs, however for me I usually do that connection thing if someone is worthy/interesting. I am currently sitting in a hair salon and this woman is talking so much shit and her stylist is dying a slow death. I hope dummy at least tips very well. She is painfully stupid. HAS NOT SHUT UP! lol

I asked her a few questions but then had to move so my daughters stylist could cut her hair (they’re seated next to each other).

Why did I ask her questions? Because I wanted to troll her. :tonguewink:
 
Happy Phantom said:
I can't speak for other INFJs, however for me I usually do that connection thing if someone is worthy/interesting. I am currently sitting in a hair salon and this woman is talking so much shit and her stylist is dying a slow death. I hope dummy at least tips very well. She is painfully stupid. HAS NOT SHUT UP! lol

I asked her a few questions but then had to move so my daughters stylist could cut her hair (they’re seated next to each other).

Why did I ask her questions? Because I wanted to troll her. :tonguewink:
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That's the thing though. A lot of extroverts just talk a lot of words at people. To me, that's not communication, it's noise. They like to hear the sound of their own voice, as the old saying goes.

My theory is that INFJs have all these ideas they want to share, but very few people they want to share them with. So those very few people get to be the lucky recipients of all that communication! :blush:
 
Happy Phantom said:
I can't speak for other INFJs, however for me I usually do that connection thing if someone is worthy/interesting. I am currently sitting in a hair salon and this woman is talking so much shit and her stylist is dying a slow death. I hope dummy at least tips very well. She is painfully stupid. HAS NOT SHUT UP! lol

I asked her a few questions but then had to move so my daughters stylist could cut her hair (they’re seated next to each other).

Why did I ask her questions? Because I wanted to troll her. :tonguewink:
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It's so good to hear this. We gotta end this "INFJ the nice pushover shy empath" myth :p
 
Ren said:
It's so good to hear this. We gotta end this "INFJ the nice pushover shy empath" myth :p
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I need headphones.

hauteur said:
Trolling people can be a blast. Getting them to show just how much BS they really are spewing.
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YES!! And they have no idea. lol :smilingimp:
 
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