How do you feel about cat calling?

Here's a quote from a commenter on the People.com story website. I think it does a good job of explaining why it can be harassment even if the person is well intentioned:

The problem with catcalling - and a lot of the comments on here - is that you're assuming every woman wants attention and compliments from strangers. There are some women who appreciate it, but there are also some who just want to be left alone. I have a friend who was molested as a teen and catcalling basically throws her into panic. It's not right to make abuse victims uncomfortable to simply go about their day. But no one knows what anyone else is going through. Maybe a woman just lost a relative and isn't in the mood to be all bright and cheery and talking to everyone who walks by. Maybe she's sick, maybe she's got something heavy on her mind, maybe she's an introvert who just doesn't like that attention. Maybe she has already responded to 15 catcallers before you and it's just gotten old. Why can't people just mind their own business?
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I can't say that I've ever experienced this to the level of what women have to go through on a day to day basis, but I did get a taste of it in Vegas. Hookers and club promoters trying to shove their wares in your face, trying to walk close and intimidate you into an interaction. It's sick and it shouldn't be tolerated. No one should be made to feel uncomfortable or threatened just walking down the street. To the people in the first couple of posts talking about advancing on women, there is clearly a difference between wanted and unwanted attention. Harassing every woman that walks down the street is plain out harassment. People in that environment just want to get to their destination, they aren't there to mingle and they gave no indications to these men whatsoever that they wanted to be approached. It's flat out threatening. Especially that creepy following shit.
 
Switchgirl said:
I did have an incident where the same thing happened to me and I did not respond and the cat callers decided to verbally abuse me by swearing at me. What's the point in all of that? Of course I'll appreciate a modest and sweet compliment and thank them for it, but when it pushes the boundaries and they say things like "Damn, nice titties" or something like that really crosses the line and it's really embarrassing.
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They think your are stuck up. They think you don't acknowledge them because you are too good for them.
 
People are forgetting that the girl could possibly be in a relationship (or going through some of the quote [MENTION=1669]pics[/MENTION] has mentioned), and that all of those "compliments" could make her feel really uncomfortable.

I remember feeling so uncomfortable when this would happen to me on the train and I'd just think of my boyfriend and wish he was there.

People can give out compliments that are pushing the limit but they shouldn't feel entitled to a "thank you" back, it's not like the girl who was walking down the street asked for it. When this type of situation happens, what goes through a lot of girls heads are also:

"I wonder how many girls this guy has done this to."
"This man could be married."
"This man could be a criminal."

You can't blame a girl for keeping her guard up.
 
Grayman said:
They think your are stuck up. They think you don't acknowledge them because you are too good for them.
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Well, they can go ahead and assume that. I don't think there's any excuse to verbally abuse a stranger with swears just because they did not respond to you. I'm in a committed relationship and the last thing I'd want to do is to respond to guys who catcall women all day. :rolleyes:
 
Switchgirl said:
People are forgetting that the girl could possibly be in a relationship (or going through some of the quote [MENTION=1669]pics[/MENTION] has mentioned), and that all of those "compliments" could make her feel really uncomfortable.

I remember feeling so uncomfortable when this would happen to me on the train and I'd just think of my boyfriend and wish he was there.

People can give out compliments that are pushing the limit but they shouldn't feel entitled to a "thank you" back, it's not like the girl who was walking down the street asked for it. When this type of situation happens, what goes through a lot of girls heads are also:

"I wonder how many girls this guy has done this to."
"This man could be married."
"This man could be a criminal."

You can't blame a girl for keeping her guard up.
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The entitlement of some of those guys is astounding. If I walked down the street and women kept yelling "nice ass" at me or something I would find it very off-putting and then them expecting thanks for their unwarranted comments would just be appalling, and is appalling in the case of these guys.
 
As always it is down to intent. I don't think we should ban men from the streets quite yet. The French tend to be good at cat calling imo. You come away feeling as though you have added something to someone's life... which is still weird but ok weird.
 
Depends on the context, the place, the degree of vulgarity involved and my mood on that day.....most definitely my mood!

Cat callers aren’t REAL MEN – are they?
 
Meow kitty kitty :"3
 
Oh dear.

Well it's hard to say what's right and wrong in a situation like this. I don't think that it's up to any individual to assume what someone else is and is not going through and how they will and will not react to something. One can't always just imagine that someone has been molested or abused or is having a bad day, etc. I think that paints a very negative picture to be assuming or to walk on egg shells just IN CASE someone might have something going on. I think every person has had things that they've gone through and circumstances that make them uncomfortable so if we were to live our lives always try to tip toe around what might be under the surface I think that's just exhausting and very limiting.

I don't mind the idea of cat-calling. I think women do it to men, too, but not necessarily in the way most people would describe as "cat calling." If I am walking down the street and someone whistles at me the that's fine, I just keep about my business. They made a choice to draw attention to my appearance but they are also drawing attention to themselves. It might come off as very base and crude, but that just be an expression of who they are - everything on the surface, put it out there, take a shot, and that's it. I think that it borders on harrassment if the calls keep coming after the person being cat called ignore the advance. Then that's just trying to get a reaction and some attention... But I don't really expect everyone to be adept at reading social cues, either.

Overall I tend towards thinking people might be a bit too sensitive. I say this as someone who experienced long term, very aggressive sexual harrassment in my late teens. It took me some time to separate the events with that person from regular day to day interactions including romantic/sexual advancements from other people. I find now that I enjoy the attention and I think it takes guts to make an advance on someone whether you are male or female.
 
My wife, in her younger days, used to eat in a downtown park with her friends. She and they got everything from "Hubba,hubba" to whistling and hollering from construction guys working on a second story building(where they felt and were safe, might I add). One day the loudest one of them singled her out and asked her for a date. She asked him if he really thought she wanted to go out with someone so immature that would scream and holler at all women every day.
 
SpecialEdition said:
Oh dear.

Well it's hard to say what's right and wrong in a situation like this. I don't think that it's up to any individual to assume what someone else is and is not going through and how they will and will not react to something. One can't always just imagine that someone has been molested or abused or is having a bad day, etc. I think that paints a very negative picture to be assuming or to walk on egg shells just IN CASE someone might have something going on. I think every person has had things that they've gone through and circumstances that make them uncomfortable so if we were to live our lives always try to tip toe around what might be under the surface I think that's just exhausting and very limiting.

I don't mind the idea of cat-calling. I think women do it to men, too, but not necessarily in the way most people would describe as "cat calling." If I am walking down the street and someone whistles at me the that's fine, I just keep about my business. They made a choice to draw attention to my appearance but they are also drawing attention to themselves. It might come off as very base and crude, but that just be an expression of who they are - everything on the surface, put it out there, take a shot, and that's it. I think that it borders on harrassment if the calls keep coming after the person being cat called ignore the advance. Then that's just trying to get a reaction and some attention... But I don't really expect everyone to be adept at reading social cues, either.

Overall I tend towards thinking people might be a bit too sensitive. I say this as someone who experienced long term, very aggressive sexual harrassment in my late teens. It took me some time to separate the events with that person from regular day to day interactions including romantic/sexual advancements from other people. I find now that I enjoy the attention and I think it takes guts to make an advance on someone whether you are male or female.
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It's not even like that to me.

I mean sure if you had bad things happen to you I can see how it'd make one even more troubled by it, but I don't see it that way. I simply see it as grody and low class. Like loud drunks. Not always a crime or anything but that doesn't mean I'd want to hear it either.

Edit:
Basically I think you should be able to walk through a public avenue and not feel like you're in a fricking seedy bar somewhere because you're decidedly not.
 
sprinkles said:
It's not even like that to me.

I mean sure if you had bad things happen to you I can see how it'd make one even more troubled by it, but I don't see it that way. I simply see it as grody and low class. Like loud drunks. Not always a crime or anything but that doesn't mean I'd want to hear it either.

Edit:
Basically I think you should be able to walk through a public avenue and not feel like you're in a fricking seedy bar somewhere because you're decidedly not.
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I understand what you mean, but I don't know how that could even possibly be enforced.

That said, I've never lived or worked in an area where this is a prevalent thing. I have seen it happen and have had it happen to me, but not in a way that I perceived it to be really offensive. It's very base low class behaviour for sure, but what can really be done about it? I am not sure that you can train someone out of their low brow personality lol.
 
SpecialEdition said:
I understand what you mean, but I don't know how that could even possibly be enforced.

That said, I've never lived or worked in an area where this is a prevalent thing. I have seen it happen and have had it happen to me, but not in a way that I perceived it to be really offensive. It's very base low class behaviour for sure, but what can really be done about it? I am not sure that you can train someone out of their low brow personality lol.
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Ah, well I'm not saying that anything needs to be done. It's gonna happen where it happens.

Actually I'm for surprisingly little intervention and I don't think people realize that and it gets me in trouble on here. Just because I have a feeling doesn't mean I want to change people or tell them to stop doing anything. People are allowed to be dicks and I'm allowed to not appreciate it.
 
I don't think anybody's asking to make this illegal but just bringing attention to it so that perhaps some people who don't realize it now can see how unpleasant it can be. Of course most people who act like that won't change but I think it's a good thing to bring awareness to it.
 
DonTaushMe said:
I was the first to reply:
Me:Those aren't compliments, that is a mans passive aggressive way of telling a woman he wants to have sex with her and she should want to have sex with him too. Women do this too but men are more aggressive and women are more at risk of being raped. Walking on the street having strange men make comments like that is creepy as hell and it's something that women have every right to be paranoid or fearful about.
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So "Hey beautiful! How are you doing?" actually means "I want to have sex with you and you should want to have sex with me"?
Wow. Maybe one could get a self-fulfililng prophecy going with that assumption.

I'm a man, so I don't have any first hand experience. Yes, harassment is an issue and was shown in that video.
But a lot of people fliterally say simple and nice things. Whether they want to have sex or not cannot be assumed.
Assuming such a thing from every guy that gives you a compliment must make going out in public quite unbearable and I'd advise to not make that assumption.
You totally have the right to be paranoid and fearful. You also have the right to fear that there's going to be a zombie outbreak or virus epidemic. You also have the right to be afraid that there's going to be a meteor strike on your house.
I admit the chances of being raped in broad daylight on a busy street are higher than any of the examples I gave. Though I guess you're more likely to get involved in a car accident than be raped. (I assumed those statistics though. For reference you're 10 times more likely to get raped than to die in a car accident.)
Irrational fears and negative interpretations make your life worse. It's understandable that you have them and you are allowed to have them. But I think life is more enjoyable when you interpret a "Hey beautiful! How are you doing?" as a compliment, instead of a sex-request.

To put my post in context of this debate:
I discuss the interpretation of certain words in the mind of a woman. I assume street harassment as given.
Being a T type, I take words to their literal meaning. Being an optimist, I try to frame words so they are seen as positive.


Also I put some INTJ sarcasm in there. Hope it wasn't too hurtful.
:m176:
 
Thinking about the whole French .. (and I can add a Greek dynamic into this), cat calling seems to be part of a kind of entrance for some exceedingly hot blooded males. It is quite surreal to experience and not necessarily based on looks. It's simply part of their 'walking towards you to initiate contact' routine. Not being used to it, at first I was kind of hypnotised, standing there (in my usual distracted or dreamy state) thinking, 'who on earth is this man? Is he actually seriously doing this?'. Then they just get on with some intense talk which actually includes soft touches! The talk is something else! It is like they actually genuinely mean it! It can be very flattering and is something you have to learn to shut down but I've never had any real worrying problems. The intensity can be shocking but to them it is absolutely normal.

The lesser breed of cat callers seem to do it so other men will hear or just to corner you - and that can be embarrassing and scary.

So, idk. I agree with the awareness aspect but honestly put it down to high testosterone or poor upbringing.
 
I think the moral of the story is that a little more human empathy and common sense would be a good shot of medicine to take for many out there.


And I thought this was going to be a thread about pets...
 
I didn’t watch the video (uploaded by rawr) before I posted as I thought it was hard core cat calling but having viewed it now, I’m not shocked. I’m certain that I would not have continued walking 5mins with a complete stranger…I would have had to stop and say something (not sure what as it would just be spontaneous). Yes the harassment is absolutely wrong and very intimating in places (but the video has been edited, 10hrs has been compressed into a 4min video and other observations too long to go into……and walking silently for 10hrs — I don’t understand that!).

I thought some of the men actually sounded quite pleasant and jovial (from their tone of voice, sounded sincere)… and I wouldn’t immediately interpret it in a derogative way. The “How are you this morning?” and “How you doing?”… and somewhere else, “Have a nice day” - I would definitely have reciprocated with a polite “Good morning, hello, you too” with a smile…a simple “hello” for some people is really appreciated and probably the only positive bit of human contact they may have. It’s a bit of a catch 22 situation for me because being friendly and comfortable talking to strangers can get me into trouble. So every situation is different and discernment is required in identifying delinquent behaviour and those who “loiter with intent.” The only time I don’t want anyone to say “Good morning” to me is at 7am when I’m out for a run! :nono:

Could someone please explain why there are some men in the video sitting in their fold up chairs on a busy high street…that’s just strange!????
 
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