How many more children need to die before the USA can have gun control?

[slant]

More information about how the state of Utah responds differently to school shootings and their use of strict preventative measures may in part completely circumvent planned attempts:



In no way is it the access to guns that is the problem. That's silly. There was at least 1 gun in every house I lived in as a teen and I knew the general location of them. Why didn't I use a gun to perform a school shooting? Because I had no *reason* or motivation to perform a school shooting. Y'all act like guns whisper into kids ears and tempt them to commit mass murder. In reality we have children that are unsupervised, possibly in neglectful and abusive homes, struggling with possible mental disorders, and we're surprised when they act out?? Really? The issue here is with the people that WANT to use guns to kill people! Why do our kids want to kill other kids?? It seems like focusing on the gun aspect is really beside the point. The bigger issue is that we have teenagers purposefully killing mass numbers of people and is becoming more and more common. The gun thing is the side problem not the motivation behind why kids want to murder.

We had a false alarm yesterday; a science teacher had a loud experiment and a neighboring teacher heard it and called in a school shooting. Generally teachers communicate if they're going to have loud noises but that didn't happen in this case. I wanted to mention this to bring up that this is the way school shootings SHOULD be handled. I'm very confident we would not have the scenario that Texas has had because we are constantly drilling our police here despite there never having been a mass school shooting before.

 

[Cinnamonmints]

More information about how the state of Utah responds differently to school shootings and their use of strict preventative measures may in part completely circumvent planned attempts:



In no way is it the access to guns that is the problem. That's silly. There was at least 1 gun in every house I lived in as a teen and I knew the general location of them. Why didn't I use a gun to perform a school shooting? Because I had no *reason* or motivation to perform a school shooting. Y'all act like guns whisper into kids ears and tempt them to commit mass murder. In reality we have children that are unsupervised, possibly in neglectful and abusive homes, struggling with possible mental disorders, and we're surprised when they act out?? Really? The issue here is with the people that WANT to use guns to kill people! Why do our kids want to kill other kids?? It seems like focusing on the gun aspect is really beside the point. The bigger issue is that we have teenagers purposefully killing mass numbers of people and is becoming more and more common. The gun thing is the side problem not the motivation behind why kids want to murder.

I'm sorry to pull an older post, but I am curious. While the main problem is mental based, if there was stricter gun control system the consequences would be smaller. The same kid that shot other kids at school would perhaps beat up a few if he had no access to a gun. Why is it that guns seem like a normal thing to have in US?

 

[just me]

Sit a loaded gun on a huge round table, surrounded by Senators, Congress, and the House. Let me know when anyone sees gun violence.

We have violent people, who are continually walking our streets. They are in jail a moment, then they are back out in public. Would you rather they use planes? Truck bombs?

We need more strict laws on violent or crazy people. Some may have their hearts bleed for the new laws, but my rights are more important than theirs. Children's rights are more important than theirs.

Citizens need guns. Governments should have a better deterrence.

 

[SlowUpTake]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/'No_Way_to_Prevent_This,'_Says_Only_Nation_Where_This_Regularly_Happens

 

[just me]

Don't care for the article. This is the mentality of many US citizens? There will always be guns in the USA. Period. Stolen guns are for sale on many street corners. I do not see this going away.

Lunatics are the problem. Why does someone want to kill people then take their own life? Did nobody in law enforcement have details of these people from their stints in jail or the mental hospitals? Were killers released from jail because they turned on a friend? Let off early? DA trying to appease people? As far as I am concerned, a sicko who wants to kill people and kills randomly or premeditatedly has given up their rights. Let them ask God for forgiveness. He can decide to forgive them. I don't want them strolling around society out there making things look worse for those who cannot see.

Little Johnny was asked by his Father at the dinner table, "Can I pass you anything, son?"

Little Johnny says, " Yeah. Pass me the MF@# dinner rolls."

Little Johnny is slapped off his chair and finds himself on the floor. Johnny had a younger little brother, Tom. His Father turns and asks him, "Anything I can pass you, Tom?"

" I sure don't want any of those MF@# dinner rolls."

Has society derailed itself?

 

[aeon]

Has society derailed itself?

No. When parents are physically violent toward their children, it shows we were never on the tracks in the first place.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[just me]

Only some parents are physically violent toward their children, and those people have derailed. It has most likely always been like that, and the children do suffer. A lifetime sometimes.

Sometimes older are larger people violate children. I know first hand. Even babysitters. I think maybe being cautious with my words, society has gotten worse.

 

[aeon]

Only some parents are physically violent toward their children, and those people have derailed. It has most likely always been like that, and the children do suffer. A lifetime sometimes.

Sometimes older are larger people violate children. I know first hand. Even babysitters. I think maybe being cautious with my words, society has gotten worse.

To quote Tolstoy:

“Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.”

Of course we may find individual examples with which to construct a narrative, but taken as the societal cohort, children are neglected, starved, beaten, raped, and killed with a regularity which would be alarming in a civil society.

On the whole, evidence would suggest that as a society, we are getting better.

But the situation is still beyond grim. We never were on the tracks. We call this a civil society because we are eager to ignore and lie to ourselves so we may sleep at night.

Also, children are akin to property, legally, so have no power or enforceable rights, and we do not believe them if and when they tell.

Our civilization is not even a thin veneer. Our society is one of barbarism, vulgarity, and trespass.

The idea that society has ever been a manifestation of a moral or ethical good would be laughable, were it not one of abject disgust and despair.

Still, we go on. For better, and for worse.

Best to You,
Ian

 

[Verison]

Gun control? Read some history.

England tried to disarm colonists in North America to prevent them from being able to revolt due to new taxes to pay for the Seven Years War. After the Revolution, the creation of the U.S. Constitution and the Amendments. There is a reason why the 2nd Amendment is the 2nd.

One of the first things Hitler did was to disarm his country. It was all down hill from there.

More recently....and very briefly mentioned in the media...Czech Republic...they had no firearms to fight the Russians, they were illegal to own....WE supplied them. The problem is the overwhelmingly ever increasing lack of respect of fellow human beings. It's in the news every single day. Criminals get caught, dragged into the courts, and let off to do it again and repeat.... I have read of people with up to 22 felony convictions being arrested for yet another visit to court. "Don't do it again" is coming quite popular in modern society.

The ultra liberal media is controlling how the population thinks and coming up with their own daffynitions. Such as "assualt weapons". Modern thinking, thanks to the media, has a semi-automatic rifle as an assult weapon. Our soldiers do not go into battle with a semi-automatic rifle. They are or are capable of full auto. SOme are belt fed. So how did a semi-automatic rifle become an "assualt weapon"? The media.

The media will also put forth any type of shooting on the news. And hash it to the bitter end. If they can they'll interview the sick individuals preschool teacher......

Rather than giving the whacko what he/she/it is looking for... a name in history....they should be totally ignored. One shooting happens, the media dramitizes it and another happens within days. What would happen if they were ignored?

The person in Maine was almost screaming for help. The system ignored him as it do to many others.

We've become a society that says it's okay to be bad,,,,,until it goes too far. Then it's "why did this happen, we have to do something", then some professional poltickian gets another useless feel good law passed.

How do we get away from this? It doesn't take a village to raise a kid. It takes 2 parents that give a damn. Allow parents a slap their kid for doing wrong on the ass went needed. I was and I did. I'm still here. I've never been arrested. I'm a productive member of society. Make the parents responsible for what the kids do. Make the kid responsible for what they did.

A firearm is a tool. So aren't screwdrivers, pencils, box cutters, knives, diesel fuel and fertilizer............... Take away one, there is another. The largest mass murder wasn't done with a firearm.

 

[just me]

Good post, @Verison. So are many things.

I opened three egg cartons today. Each had a broken egg in it. The one I left open partially now has two eggs broken. I brought a good carton of eggs home. One bad apple does not spoil the whole bunch, but they have before I'm sure. It is best to place the bad apple away from the good ones.

All we like sheep have gone astray. We have turned every one to his own way...

There is a huge difference in going down a wrong path and turning back, and in a dog returning to his own vomit.

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

There really isn't any issues with guns but rather some deep rooted cultural and societal issues that will likely go unresolved plus just taking away the guns won't solve anything as seen in some countries people resort to using knives etc. Hell even in the UK there are machete gangs these days so I guess the usual crowd that already loves controlling everything will ban those as well.

 

[Asa]

There really isn't any issues with guns but rather some deep rooted cultural and societal issues that will likely go unresolved plus just taking away the guns won't solve anything as seen in some countries people resort to using knives etc. Hell even in the UK there are machete gangs these days so I guess the usual crowd that already loves controlling everything will ban those as well.

I agree. While I do believe we need better screening for firearms ownership, the real issue is a deep-rooted cultural and societal issue. I tried to address this in my peace thread, but I guess I wasn't that good at conveying my thoughts on this. Aside from the rampant socio-political issues that are building pressure like an Instapot, cultures that eliminate organized and safe ritual violence tend to be more actively and chaotically violent... causing real issues (like mass shootings) instead of ritualized ceremony or play.

I've been to Lewiston, BTW, and witnessed an intense and violent racially motivated crime. (No guns involved. There was an explosion, though.) Many in Lewiston may be good people, but the town has deep-rooted problems that go back to the socio-political issues that need to be addressed. Lewiston is not unique. There are tons of towns just like it. The shooter also had a history of problems. I'm not saying this is a mental health issue. It's deeper than that. It's about the entire structure and culture of our country. Until we address this as a whole and make changes, pressure will keep building.

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

I agree. While I do believe we need better screening for firearms ownership, the real issue is a deep-rooted cultural and societal issue. I tried to address this in my peace thread, but I guess I wasn't that good at conveying my thoughts on this. Aside from the rampant socio-political issues that are building pressure like an Instapot, cultures that eliminate organized and safe ritual violence tend to be more actively and chaotically violent... causing real issues (like mass shootings) instead of ritualized ceremony or play.

I've been to Lewiston, BTW, and witnessed an intense and violent racially motivated crime. (No guns involved. There was an explosion, though.) Many in Lewiston may be good people, but the town has deep-rooted problems that go back to the socio-political issues that need to be addressed. Lewiston is not unique. There are tons of towns just like it. The shooter also had a history of problems. I'm not saying this is a mental health issue. It's deeper than that. It's about the entire structure and culture of our country. Until we address this as a whole and make changes, pressure will keep building.

My view on this for a while is that we really do need a new more "civilized" culture as a well functioning society just doesn't have issues like this never mind so much else. One of the roots of the problem is how violence and criminality is glamorized along with things like drugs and hookup culture etc.

 

[Verison]

The problem, as it has been pointed out, is what society is changing into. Here in VT, I recently read (a freakin' joke) that unless someone has committed a violent crime that person can be released on bail. "Catch and release". This system of non-justice is catching up. In a local "news"paper this morning is an article about a man who decided he didn't need to show up in court (there have been several of these lately) to face 47 criminal charges. Forty-seven. There was a drug related gang shooting a year or so ago, one of the member's body, a 17 year old kid, was discovered on a very rural road. He was put on a freakin' pedestal by his family and the media!

All involved are from the Springfield mASSachuetts area. Well known for drug dealers. They moved here because they knew they were going to be able to do a fantastic business. They knew they could use "minors" to do their dirty work and get away with it. There is a constant line of traffic between that area and Vermont. Constant. One car was pulled over, drugs were suspected and found. A MAJOR bust. The lowlifes got off. Why? The court felt it was an illegal stop, because they were black. They were caught again in a drug bust at a known drug dealers house. This house was raided because it was believed drugs from that dealer killed a women who overdosed. She died from her own stupidity, and because the court allowed this dealer to continue his business.

Society, the media and the libs in government have got to change. People need to wake the f&^k up and say no more of this sh*t. And the problem with that is the libs in government give the lowlifes money, food, housing, healthcare, babysitting services, drugs (" a little bit is okay")......these low life's aren't going to vote out the hand that feeds them.

Better screening for firearm ownership isn't the problem. When it comes to firearms used in a crime is the lowlifes living off the welfare system breaking into homes and stealing firearms, selling them to other lowlifes, who then commit crimes on a repeating basis. An extremely low percentage of firearms that were purchased legally are used to commit crimes by the true purchaser. Would better screening of a purchase have helped in Maine? Doubtful.

Citizens of the planet aren't going to be protected 100% of the time from 100% of the planet's sick society. Impossible. Eight Billion people and counting..............."where there is a will, there is a way".

 

[Verison]

I agree. While I do believe we need better screening for firearms ownership, the real issue is a deep-rooted cultural and societal issue. I tried to address this in my peace thread, but I guess I wasn't that good at conveying my thoughts on this. Aside from the rampant socio-political issues that are building pressure like an Instapot, cultures that eliminate organized and safe ritual violence tend to be more actively and chaotically violent... causing real issues (like mass shootings) instead of ritualized ceremony or play.

I've been to Lewiston, BTW, and witnessed an intense and violent racially motivated crime. (No guns involved. There was an explosion, though.) Many in Lewiston may be good people, but the town has deep-rooted problems that go back to the socio-political issues that need to be addressed. Lewiston is not unique. There are tons of towns just like it. The shooter also had a history of problems. I'm not saying this is a mental health issue. It's deeper than that. It's about the entire structure and culture of our country. Until we address this as a whole and make changes, pressure will keep building.

There's a reason why they are referred to as "Mainieacs"

No. When parents are physically violent toward their children, it shows we were never on the tracks in the first place.

Cheers,
Ian

There is disciplining and then there is being violent. Disciplining gets their child's attention for doing something wrong. A violent action just perpetuates violence. I had some of my actions brought to my attention via a slap on my ass. My parents were performing their parental duty, teaching me how to behave. I learned. The government is denying parents that responsibility, that duty. The government has overtaken it. We are dealing with that result.

When violence is used, having gone too far, the parent should be charged and pay for his/her/it's actions.

 

[aeon]

When violence is used, having gone too far, the parent should be charged and pay for his/her/it's actions

Physical violence of any kind is too far.

Why choose it when operant conditioning is more effective?

Best,
Ian

 

[aeon]

People need to wake the f&^k up and say no more of this sh*t.

Agreed. End the War on Drugs and end criminalization of a consensual act.

Destroy the underground market, end the violence, end the use of children, stop wasting taxpayer dollars, use police resources more effectively, remove money and power as incentives.

Create a safe, legal, and regulated market. Treat addiction as a medical issue, not a legal one.

Absolute insanity since 1970. It has led to the crack epidemic, CIA guns for drugs, the destruction of Afghan poppy fields which in turn created markets for Chinese fentanyl and Purdue pharma, and human lives destroyed.

Itʼs not about being right, itʼs about human need, human suffering, and what has already been proven to work elsewhere.

Pragmatism.

Wake the fuck up indeed. End this Puritanical witch hunt and go with what works.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[just me]

Respect those with a pure heart and mind.

I have found many in this world who try to turn the boat over and place the pure in the same pool they are in. They do not really respect different, though they want to be respected for their different.

Be of sound mind and body. Yessir, she is beautiful in that blue sequens dress. She is filled out to a mature, awesome body most any man would admire. Beautiful, and acts nice. Ask her how her spirit is.

Clean your bathroom like it is the most important room in the house. Maybe it really is!

Restore decent morals and ethics taught but trampled under foot.

Try to destroy it all, but you cannot have my heart and soul.

 

[Asa]

The problem, as it has been pointed out, is what society is changing into. Here in VT, I recently read (a freakin' joke) that unless someone has committed a violent crime that person can be released on bail. "Catch and release". This system of non-justice is catching up. In a local "news"paper this morning is an article about a man who decided he didn't need to show up in court (there have been several of these lately) to face 47 criminal charges. Forty-seven. There was a drug related gang shooting a year or so ago, one of the member's body, a 17 year old kid, was discovered on a very rural road. He was put on a freakin' pedestal by his family and the media!

All involved are from the Springfield mASSachuetts area. Well known for drug dealers. They moved here because they knew they were going to be able to do a fantastic business. They knew they could use "minors" to do their dirty work and get away with it. There is a constant line of traffic between that area and Vermont. Constant. One car was pulled over, drugs were suspected and found. A MAJOR bust. The lowlifes got off. Why? The court felt it was an illegal stop, because they were black. They were caught again in a drug bust at a known drug dealers house. This house was raided because it was believed drugs from that dealer killed a women who overdosed. She died from her own stupidity, and because the court allowed this dealer to continue his business.

Society, the media and the libs in government have got to change. People need to wake the f&^k up and say no more of this sh*t. And the problem with that is the libs in government give the lowlifes money, food, housing, healthcare, babysitting services, drugs (" a little bit is okay")......these low life's aren't going to vote out the hand that feeds them.

Better screening for firearm ownership isn't the problem. When it comes to firearms used in a crime is the lowlifes living off the welfare system breaking into homes and stealing firearms, selling them to other lowlifes, who then commit crimes on a repeating basis. An extremely low percentage of firearms that were purchased legally are used to commit crimes by the true purchaser. Would better screening of a purchase have helped in Maine? Doubtful.

Citizens of the planet aren't going to be protected 100% of the time from 100% of the planet's sick society. Impossible. Eight Billion people and counting..............."where there is a will, there is a way".

The issue you are addressing is a serious problem. The drug issue has existed all along, though. It gets a lot of attention now. I don't see this as a liberal versus conservative problem. The Dems and Republicans are a wall of issues collaborating to make this country what it is. They are one united bickering circus, and the people suffer. A major problem is that the US lacks deep cultural roots (as a whole), and lacks a support system, and there is now little way anyone from the working class can achieve a meaningful... or even viable... life through honest work. It keeps getting worse every year. Why drugs? Because there is no reason to work an hourly (10+ hours a day, 5-7 days a week) job if you can't afford housing and groceries anyway. People who've played into the system feel disenfranchised and forgotten. Politicians pit us against each other. School curriculums are heavily biased and full of propaganda. Everyone argues about the truth.

It used to be that if white men played their cards right, they could live the American Dream. That wasn't available to most other people in the US, except via tokenism. Now, the American Dream isn't available to anyone except the wealthy. We're still taught that hard work will be rewarded, but that isn't the case. There is no reward. The reward is going home and watching poorly made straight-to-Netflix movies. It's hopeless.

 

[just me]

Having self-retired about a year and a half ago, I used to drive a Kawasaki 175 to work where I was paid about $75 a week. Must have been blessed, lucky, and/or just smart enough to make it. Never been wealthy except spiritually.

Nowadays, for younger people, do they have it so worse than I did? Many people survived the Great Depression that weren't rich. What's missing?
Everyone within five miles spending the day with picnics and hard work to help farmer John rebuild a barn that was destroyed by fire?
Everyone helping farmer Joe gather his crops when he is ill?
Ten strangers sitting at one table together to eat? Potato soup from your neighbor when you are sick? Chicken soup when you have the bug?
Neighbors getting together for a fish fry? Maybe just for fun?

Look around you. We have a picture of my Grandmother with all her sons in a magnetic picture holder on the fridge. to be contd
Underneath her picture it says, " Today I'm going to help as many people as I can, without their knowing about it."