Illegal Immigration, a worldwide problem.

wolly.green said:
Why else would you care about immigration? It undermines your power and freedom. That's the threat.
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First I am not conservative and I am not liberal. Second I am not against immigration. Immigration is what this country was and is built on. It makes a country stronger in many varying ways. Illegal immigration has the opposite effect.
I have one hundred percent respect for people who follow the rules and become US citizens. All probably have more of a right to be a citizen of the US than a vast majority of liberals. Ive known a few that have gone down that path. Its not easy and it takes time. More than a few have said they cried when they finally got to take the oath.
 
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AUM said:
@Eventhorizon You're a smart man, but I think you're missing a crucial point in all of this: the democrats and republicans serve a bigger master. The same master that keeps Mexico enslaved to the United States. Did you know that just last year, our president Enrique Peña Nieto privatized our oil to big companies from your country? That means that in order for us to have gasoline for our cars among other uses we need to import it from the US which originally came from Mexico itself. The same thing happens with other products such as corn and other produce. This has resulted in extremely high prices for basic necessities. Also thanks to NAFTA, all of your manufacturing companies are coming here because it's so much cheaper and the quality is very high. Our minimum wage is at 85 pesos a day(about $5 dollars).

My city is one of the biggest Mexican cities for manufacturing. About 80% of them come from Canada and USA. Sure you could argue that we should be thankful for giving us jobs. However, the reality is that families need to work 2-3 jobs just to cover the essentials because these companies don't pay enough. Didn't Trump say that he was going to keep Carrier jobs in the United States? Months later after saying that and becoming president, Carrier shut down their factory and moved to Monterrey. Thousands of American were left jobless and furious. While from your pov it seems like a big win for Mexico and you might say things like "they took our jobs", the reality is that your business over here hurts us more than they help. If you have the time, I'm going to leave a video at the end of the post that gives you further insight into this situation.

These masters are, of course, the big corporations that profit from keeping the average Joe and Jose working for almost nothing. Your government takes millions of dollars from these corporations that expect them to do their bidding. Which they do. Mexico's government is also their bitch because they're the same corporations.

Just take a look at the bigger picture, man. You can then see how all treads connect together. Illegal immigration has a cause, and yes, my government has A LOT to be blamed for. However, your government is not innocent either.

I loved something you said, though. We, as citizens, need to start taking a more active participation in our country's affairs. We need to stop depending on government to fix our problems. You're absolutely right about that. The same thing could be applied everywhere else in the world. With all that said, the reason that I'm more optimistic about this new administration that's coming in is because it's the first time in history that we'd be having a president from a third party, not the traditional corrupt ones we've had these past 80 years. But who knows, maybe they will disappoint us as well. We'll see what happens.

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Good thought process here but much of it has little to do with the subject of illegal immigration. Why would I care that Mexico has to import its gas from the US now? I didnt know that but I also did not make that choice. From the US's perspective it makes complete sense. It gives us more power over you, more ability to control you. Nothing wrong with that especially when your goverment apparently was an active player in that decision. Not sure what you are getting at. If you have disgust with your goverment over that I absolutley understand. I would as well. But, what does that have to do with illegal immigration into the US?
 
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I think my likes are going into the abyss. None are showing up on my posts.
 
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If we will not enforce the laws of our country then why the fuck should I care about any law. Citizenship means nothing then. So why should there be any country or government. Actually they need to fire the government it's not protecting us from foreign invasion. If these Mexicans and Central Americans can just stroll into the USA what about others that really want to harm the USA. I would think that the parents of kidnaped kids south of the border care that their children are being sold into slavery. Or that the cartels use them to smuggle drugs. I worked with many illegals 6 years ago and the guys I knew from El Salvador said that they did not want to be Americans. They were here to make money and go back. It's a huge win for them because a US dollar goes farther down there. They told me that they never wanted to learn English. Some of them did but the vast majority do not. On a construction site they are a safety hazard because they do not speak English. So if they warn you in Spanish and you don't speak their language you won't know what they are saying. By law as a plumber I have to have my journeyman card or apprenticeship card before I can be working on a job site. They don't. I got checked they never did. I was only on one job site where all the illegals were kicked off for not having their cards. It's a problem for construction the pay has gone down because they will take less pay than a citizen. I get it they want a better life. If their countries are not shitholes then why come to the USA. Because they are shitholes no one leaves because it's too nice. They leave because life is cheap down there. Henry a legal El Salvador immigrant that I worked with daily sent his brother home to work on their farm they were paying for and building down there was shot in the head in the field the week he got back there. They got some real problems down there. And I don't see any supporters of these guys sending money to El Salvador to help them. They just want to feel good about something and still do nothing. If people want to actually do something they could adopt a family down there and send them some money. Although there is a good chance they will get robbed and killed for the money when they received it. The problem here is global corporations and the American government. Instead of sending jobs to our neighbors to the south they decided to send those jobs to china. It would be much cheaper and more beneficial for us to trade with them than to trade with China. Our government has betrayed us all and has been taking care of corporate interests than the citizens it's supposed to be serving. There is a amicable solution to this problem they don't want to be here they just have zero opportunities where they live. It's our responsibility as neighbors to help those closest to us first after we help our own citizens. Screw China they make garbage products that either break or don't fit correctly. I've seen so many shitty tires coming outta china it's not funny when one blows out on you going down the highway. Many accidents have occurred because of steel belts being rusted inside the tires. The Chinese pipe I used for plumbing was always poor quality and would be cracked or full of pin holes. So you waste time putting it in then pulling it out. Our government has agencies to inspect this stuff but they do not. So in the end we can choose to buy Mexican products and support them. The citizens of this country could kill the Chinese economy by refusing to buy their stuff. We don't need the government to do anything. Stop buying Chinese anything. And go without. A lot of the things they import we don't need. We used to make our own stuff here there is zero reason to let them have our economy. The republican and Democratic Party have sold this country out. And both parties should be kicked out of power. They are one and the same and are traitors to the American Republic. It's time for a reboot in America.
 
AUM said:
Everything.
---------------------------
That's all I'll say about the subject. Good day :)
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Ok. Well so far as I am concerned the type of response you gave is exactly the type I look for. While we may not agree, you offer a perspective that is not often found.
I honestly do not see how it relates but if you are done talking I cant force you.
 
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efromm said:
If we will not enforce the laws of our country then why the fuck should I care about any law. Citizenship means nothing then. So why should there be any country or government. Actually they need to fire the government it's not protecting us from foreign invasion. If these Mexicans and Central Americans can just stroll into the USA what about others that really want to harm the USA. I would think that the parents of kidnaped kids south of the border care that their children are being sold into slavery. Or that the cartels use them to smuggle drugs. I worked with many illegals 6 years ago and the guys I knew from El Salvador said that they did not want to be Americans. They were here to make money and go back. It's a huge win for them because a US dollar goes farther down there. They told me that they never wanted to learn English. Some of them did but the vast majority do not. On a construction site they are a safety hazard because they do not speak English. So if they warn you in Spanish and you don't speak their language you won't know what they are saying. By law as a plumber I have to have my journeyman card or apprenticeship card before I can be working on a job site. They don't. I got checked they never did. I was only on one job site where all the illegals were kicked off for not having their cards. It's a problem for construction the pay has gone down because they will take less pay than a citizen. I get it they want a better life. If their countries are not shitholes then why come to the USA. Because they are shitholes no one leaves because it's too nice. They leave because life is cheap down there. Henry a legal El Salvador immigrant that I worked with daily sent his brother home to work on their farm they were paying for and building down there was shot in the head in the field the week he got back there. They got some real problems down there. And I don't see any supporters of these guys sending money to El Salvador to help them. They just want to feel good about something and still do nothing. If people want to actually do something they could adopt a family down there and send them some money. Although there is a good chance they will get robbed and killed for the money when they received it. The problem here is global corporations and the American government. Instead of sending jobs to our neighbors to the south they decided to send those jobs to china. It would be much cheaper and more beneficial for us to trade with them than to trade with China. Our government has betrayed us all and has been taking care of corporate interests than the citizens it's supposed to be serving. There is a amicable solution to this problem they don't want to be here they just have zero opportunities where they live. It's our responsibility as neighbors to help those closest to us first after we help our own citizens. Screw China they make garbage products that either break or don't fit correctly. I've seen so many shitty tires coming outta china it's not funny when one blows out on you going down the highway. Many accidents have occurred because of steel belts being rusted inside the tires. The Chinese pipe I used for plumbing was always poor quality and would be cracked or full of pin holes. So you waste time putting it in then pulling it out. Our government has agencies to inspect this stuff but they do not. So in the end we can choose to buy Mexican products and support them. The citizens of this country could kill the Chinese economy by refusing to buy their stuff. We don't need the government to do anything. Stop buying Chinese anything. And go without. A lot of the things they import we don't need. We used to make our own stuff here there is zero reason to let them have our economy. The republican and Democratic Party have sold this country out. And both parties should be kicked out of power. They are one and the same and are traitors to the American Republic. It's time for a reboot in America.
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You have made good points. I think that probably makes you a target here.
 
Eventhorizon said:
You have made good points. I think that probably makes you a target here.
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I doubt it. One should be allowed to voice opinions how else would you learn. Anyone that's upset with a comment they don't like wants to be offended. And they would take offense at most anything they deem offensive. It also shows a lack of maturity on their part. Most of these types are just useful idiots. And will continue to be so until they get their mental house in order. Which for some may never happen. Usually it's a small number of people that change the world. As you know democracy is mob rule. And usually the mob is wrong the majority of the time.
 
Eventhorizon said:
I think my likes are going into the abyss. None are showing up on my posts.
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I think it would be quite a conspiracy if you were getting a lot of likes but somehow the forum did not show it. Seems like something the mods would do.
 
Eventhorizon said:
I think my likes are going into the abyss. None are showing up on my posts.
Click to expand...
That’s because you don’t receive likes. Be a nicer person.
 
AUM said:
@Eventhorizon You're a smart man, but I think you're missing a crucial point in all of this: the democrats and republicans serve a bigger master. The same master that keeps Mexico enslaved to the United States. Did you know that just last year, our president Enrique Peña Nieto privatized our oil to big companies from your country? That means that in order for us to have gasoline for our cars among other uses we need to import it from the US which originally came from Mexico itself. The same thing happens with other products such as corn and other produce. This has resulted in extremely high prices for basic necessities. Also thanks to NAFTA, all of your manufacturing companies are coming here because it's so much cheaper and the quality is very high. Our minimum wage is at 85 pesos a day(about $5 dollars).

My city is one of the biggest Mexican cities for manufacturing. About 80% of them come from Canada and USA. Sure you could argue that we should be thankful for giving us jobs. However, the reality is that families need to work 2-3 jobs just to cover the essentials because these companies don't pay enough. Didn't Trump say that he was going to keep Carrier jobs in the United States? Months later after saying that and becoming president, Carrier shut down their factory and moved to Monterrey. Thousands of American were left jobless and furious. While from your pov it seems like a big win for Mexico and you might say things like "they took our jobs", the reality is that your business over here hurts us more than they help. If you have the time, I'm going to leave a video at the end of the post that gives you further insight into this situation.

These masters are, of course, the big corporations that profit from keeping the average Joe and Jose working for almost nothing. Your government takes millions of dollars from these corporations that expect them to do their bidding. Which they do. Mexico's government is also their bitch because they're the same corporations.

Just take a look at the bigger picture, man. You can then see how all treads connect together. Illegal immigration has a cause, and yes, my government has A LOT to be blamed for. However, your government is not innocent either.

I loved something you said, though. We, as citizens, need to start taking a more active participation in our country's affairs. We need to stop depending on government to fix our problems. You're absolutely right about that. The same thing could be applied everywhere else in the world. With all that said, the reason that I'm more optimistic about this new administration that's coming in is because it's the first time in history that we'd be having a president from a third party, not the traditional corrupt ones we've had these past 80 years. But who knows, maybe they will disappoint us as well. We'll see what happens.

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This! Exactly! Thanks for putting effort into your response!
 
Eventhorizon said:
First I am not conservative and I am not liberal. Second I am not against immigration. Immigration is what this country was and is built on. It makes a country stronger in many varying ways. Illegal immagration has the opposite effect.
I have one hundred percent respect for people who follow the rules and become US citizens. All probably have more of a right to be a citizen of the US than a vast majority of liberals. Ive known a few that have gone down that path. Its not easy and it takes time. More than a few have said they cried when they finally got to take the oath.
Click to expand...

Ok, this seems reasonable. Sure, illegal immigration is a "problem". But like others have already mentioned, the power structure is America's single biggest problem. Both major parties are traitors that must be replaced.

USA is in an interesting situation because American colonialism depends on the ingenuity and creativity of the public. Since happiness and freedom are directly connected with innovation and increased creativity, those in power have a vested interest in keep the public relatively happy and free. Regardless of how corrupt they are, their success is intimately connected with our happiness.
 
Oh so your just impressed with that egghead of a ,"leader" we have? Then your head should blurt into flames after reading my idea for the problem. My solution solves two problems at once and doesn't cost anything. First off, let’s start off with problem one, the African Americans. You know why they call themselves Africans in their description of themselves because they don’t feel like real Americans. Why, because they were kidnapped from where they lived thus they don’t feel, “at home” here and they never will. They will destroy this country before calling themselves Americans.

Which, brings me to how we can solve both problems. See, you give the blacks the land at the border. It would extend from Texas to California at 150 to 200 miles wide thus creating an artificial wall so to speak. Can’t see to many South American, which are normally tan, making past 200 miles of black neighborhood, they would stick out like a sore thumb. Two problems solved at once.
 
Smake said:
Oh so your just impressed with that egghead of a ,"leader" we have? Then your head should blurt into flames after reading my idea for the problem. My solution solves two problems at once and doesn't cost anything. First off, let’s start off with problem one, the African Americans. You know why they call themselves Africans in their description of themselves because they don’t feel like real Americans. Why, because they were kidnapped from where they lived thus they don’t feel, “at home” here and they never will. They will destroy this country before calling themselves Americans.

Which, brings me to how we can solve both problems. See, you give the blacks the land at the border. It would extend from Texas to California at 150 to 200 miles wide thus creating an artificial wall so to speak. Can’t see to many South American, which are normally tan, making past 200 miles of black neighborhood, they would stick out like a sore thumb. Two problems solved at once.
Click to expand...

I love this thread.
 
wolly.green said:
Ok, this seems reasonable. Sure, illegal immigration is a "problem". But like others have already mentioned, the power structure is America's single biggest problem. Both major parties are traitors that must be replaced.

USA is in an interesting situation because American colonialism depends on the ingenuity and creativity of the public. Since happiness and freedom are directly connected with innovation and increased creativity, those in power have a vested interest in keep the public relatively happy and free. Regardless of how corrupt they are, their success is intimately connected with our happiness.
Click to expand...
We have ripe corruption in our goverment. Replace them though and it would be just a matter of time before the ticks would find their way back. We should start with term limits. And get rid of all the perks senators and others get. As a start...
 
Smake said:
Oh so your just impressed with that egghead of a ,"leader" we have? Then your head should blurt into flames after reading my idea for the problem. My solution solves two problems at once and doesn't cost anything. First off, let’s start off with problem one, the African Americans. You know why they call themselves Africans in their description of themselves because they don’t feel like real Americans. Why, because they were kidnapped from where they lived thus they don’t feel, “at home” here and they never will. They will destroy this country before calling themselves Americans.

Which, brings me to how we can solve both problems. See, you give the blacks the land at the border. It would extend from Texas to California at 150 to 200 miles wide thus creating an artificial wall so to speak. Can’t see to many South American, which are normally tan, making past 200 miles of black neighborhood, they would stick out like a sore thumb. Two problems solved at once.
Click to expand...
giphy.gif
 
Smake said:
Oh so your just impressed with that egghead of a ,"leader" we have? Then your head should blurt into flames after reading my idea for the problem. My solution solves two problems at once and doesn't cost anything. First off, let’s start off with problem one, the African Americans. You know why they call themselves Africans in their description of themselves because they don’t feel like real Americans. Why, because they were kidnapped from where they lived thus they don’t feel, “at home” here and they never will. They will destroy this country before calling themselves Americans.

Which, brings me to how we can solve both problems. See, you give the blacks the land at the border. It would extend from Texas to California at 150 to 200 miles wide thus creating an artificial wall so to speak. Can’t see to many South American, which are normally tan, making past 200 miles of black neighborhood, they would stick out like a sore thumb. Two problems solved at once.
Click to expand...
 
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