In light of School Shootings. What about the shooter themselves?

S'crow, I am a sportsman. I abide by the laws. Who are you to tell me what to call it? You have no experience and no idea.
sports·man
ˈspôrtsmən/
noun

  • a man who takes part in a sport, especially as a professional.
    • a person who behaves sportingly
    • a man who hunts or shoots wild animals as a pastime.


    • Conservation Pledge

    • I give my pledge as an American,to save and faithfully defend from wastethe natural resources of my country -its soil and minerals,its forests, waters and wildlife.

      How much of your time and money have you spent caring for this?
    • I have been partaking since a pre-teen.
  • Who kills your chickens, fish, cows, lambs, tuna, pigs? Do you eat eggs? Ever stepped on a roach inside your house? Poisoned a rat? Poisoned an ant bed? Ever sprayed vegetables to keep the worms from eating the leaves and destroying your crop?
  • The oceans are overfished by illegal fishing trawlers. Some countries still kill whales. Farmers kill trees and plants to have areas to grow crops. They irrigate water for their crops, taking from the fisheries and lives on the rivers. Large cities build dams for water for their people, affecting everything downstream. You really want to help? Stop having babies. OMG! Seriously, though: how much more can our world take? People wanted judges. They wanted a king. They wanted rulers. They want children.
  • When I kill a deer or a fish, that doesn't make me a killer by today's standards. If you run over a squirrel, are you a killer?


 
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S'crow, I am a sportsman. I abide by the laws. Who are you to tell me what to call it? You have no experience and no idea.
sports·man
ˈspôrtsmən/
noun

  • a man who takes part in a sport, especially as a professional.
    • a person who behaves sportingly
    • a man who hunts or shoots wild animals as a pastime.


    • Conservation Pledge

    • I give my pledge as an American,to save and faithfully defend from wastethe natural resources of my country -its soil and minerals,its forests, waters and wildlife.

      How much of your time and money have you spent caring for this?
    • I have been partaking since a pre-teen.
  • Who kills your chickens, fish, cows, lambs, tuna, pigs? Do you eat eggs? Ever stepped on a roach inside your house? Poisoned a rat? Poisoned an ant bed? Ever sprayed vegetables to keep the worms from eating the leaves and destroying your crop?
  • The oceans are overfished by illegal fishing trawlers. Some countries still kill whales. Farmers kill trees and plants to have areas to grow crops. They irrigate water for their crops, taking from the fisheries and lives on the rivers. Large cities build dams for water for their people, affecting everything downstream. You really want to help? Stop having babies. OMG! Seriously, though: how much more can our world take? People wanted judges. They wanted a king. They wanted rulers. They want children.
  • When I kill a deer or a fish, that doesn't make me a killer by today's standards. If you run over a squirrel, are you a killer?



You can call yourself whatever you want…once again, I never said you couldn’t hunt or that I was against it.
Just yesterday on Facebook my cousin posted this huge buck he just took down…guess what? He’s still on my friends list! Can you believe it with all your other preconceived notions you have about me and what I know about what.
(btw that highlighted bit was uncalled for…you have no idea of my experience with guns…I grew up shooting guns, was trained in the military and carried a side-arm quite frequently while in, beside being trained to use the much larger caliber guns like the .50 cal on the front of the patrol boats…so tell me again about how inexperienced I am around guns smart guy)
Killing is never a sport…it’s called acting in an ethical manner at all times, and it shouldn’t just be reserved for when people go hunting…and this is waaaay off the original topic now of mass shootings occurring at schools.
Once again…no one is trying to take anyones' guns away.
Just maybe trying to help keep them out of the hands of the insane…so if they do decide to go on a rampage maybe at least it won’t be so lethal.
What do you think is going to happen? The US Gestapo is going to goose-step down main street and round up all the guns?
What do you have against common sense laws being passed…do you really think it’s going to start a downward spiral of tighter and tighter restrictions?
Or at the very least, can we have gun laws (and yes I do know what they are for my state Mr. Assumption-pants) that are congruent across the 50 states?

I just don’t buy the whole point of view that what we need are MORE guns in private hands to stem gun violence.
Are we going back to the wild west here? Is that what we need….just make it legal to solve disputes with guns and then it’s all good?
Because everywhere where they have passed laws to help keep guns from criminals and the mentally ill show they it does indeed work, and without infringing on your or my own right to own a gun should we so choose.
I can provide links to sources for that last bit if you like.
 
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This is the American attitude and what many believe to be true.
Well, then I guess that call I got as a Paramedic to the home of a County Sheriff (who had been one for 25+ years) doesn’t count…the one where he accidentally shot himself through his knee, completely shattering his Tibia into fragments as the .40 cal bullet finally came to a rest just poking out of his destroyed ankle.
You see, he was gonna clean his gun and got out his kit…didn’t notice that his gun oil had leaked out a little and being so light on the hands went to pull back the slide on his handgun when it slipped forward from his grasp at the worst possible time. He kept saying “I should have known better!” - in-between the screams; he was in so much pain I gave him the max dose of IV morphine and it didn’t touch him.
So yeah, fucking Ted Nugent…he must be right.
You see, I am very
familiar with guns @just me , not just handling them, but I got to see the first hand aftermath of their destruction.
Have you seen a child die with their face half way blown off?
Have you been the one responsible to try and save that child??
Have you seen Birthday parties turned into massacres because someone’s stupid uncle showed up who is friends with some gang banger…who fucking cares why they were shot?
Innocent people are being killed by guns being so easily and readily available to ANYONE who has a will to get one.

Or there was that one Cop, he came into the ER and I was on call for Neurosurgery assist that night, I went down to see if we were doing brain surgery or not….he found out he had cancer and instead of telling his family and waiting to die, shot himself in the head…you’d be surprised how many people survive gunshots to the head. He sat there with half his head blown off and was conscious enough to tell the doctor the cell number of his wife…so I would say, he fucked that one up pretty good….though, by the time the wife got there, they were doing CPR because he was losing so much blood…there really was no getting at the sheer number of busted blood vessels…your brain, your head…so incredibly vascular…when you open the skull to do surgery the brain pulses with the heartbeat of the patient. Anyhow, the Surgeon was there by then and had a quick talk with the wife…came out and they stopped CPR.

But yeah…again…Ted Nugent probably knows waaaaay better than I ever could.

I’m so inexperienced!
 
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S'crow: how misleading you can be. You should learn to shoot straight from the hip.
 
I agree: not the time. Wait til it sneaks up on us.
 
S'crow: how misleading you can be. You should learn to shoot straight from the hip.

I have not mislead you or anyone else, I have spoken the truth about myself and what I have done and seen. My opinions are my own and I am entitled to them just as you are yours. And though we may disagree on some subjects I don’t appreciate you inferring that I am misleading someone somehow.
Don’t attack my integrity Sir. you don’t know me from Joe.

I agree: not the time. Wait til it sneaks up on us.
Till what? They take everyone’s guns?


Man Trying To Be Good Guy With A Gun Accidentally Shoots Himself During Children’s Movie

AUTHOR: JAMESON PARKER
OCTOBER 18, 2015 11:37 PM

A mass shooting still has yet to be stopped by the actions of a “good guy with a gun,” but again we find an example of how flooding our society with heavily-armed civilians magnifies the dangers of being shot.

During a Friday night at the movies in Salina, Kansas, a theater full of families heard a loud bang followed by a man screaming that he had just accidentally shot himself.

According to police, an unidentified man accidentally discharged his pistol about 45 minutes into the popular kid’s film, Maze Runner: The Scorched Trials.
As if immediately regretting his decision to carry his gun into a movie, the man is said to have screamed out, “Oh, my God! I just shot myself! I just got my concealed carry.”

Others in the audience rushed to give aid, several more dialed 911.
Witnesses described the scene to the Salina Journal:

She said someone used a belt to make a tourniquet on the man’s leg to stop the bleeding from a wound on the inside of the man’s thigh.
“I feel really sorry that guy shot himself, but at least he didn’t shoot someone else,” Myers said. “That would have been 10 times worse.”

As if to reinforce the fact that shooting incidents are so commonplace as to be business as usual, the undeterred theater managers told guests they could get a free coupon to see another film some other day or wait until staff could mop up the blood and resume the film.

It’s not known exactly why the man had recently acquired a conceal carry license, which gives a holder the ability to take their handguns pretty much anywhere in Kansas.

It would not be at all surprising to learn that he was simply taking the advice of gun rights activists and encouraged by his lawmakers. Kansas, under Republican Governor Sam Brownback has some of the loosest gun laws in the country.

Just this summer, Brownback signed a law that no longer required concealed carry license holders to take training courses.
Apparently, asking a gun user to know how to use a gun now falls under “government tyranny.”

“We’re saying that if you want to do that in this state, then you don’t have to get the permission slip from the government,” Brownback said. “It is a constitutional right, and we’re removing a barrier to that right.”

Brownback signed the law with members of the NRA quite literally standing over his shoulder grinning.
In recent months, as America struggles to grapple with an average of one mass shooting a day, the gun lobby has taken the counter-intuitive position that more guns are needed.

Despite the evidence, they insist that more guns in the hands of “good guys” will mean less gun deaths.
In fact, we’ve seen the exact opposite.

As guns continue to sell in record numbers, mass shootings have gotten worse.
Meanwhile, suicides and accidents — making up the majority of gun deaths — still devastate the lives of tens of thousands of families every year.

Did this man keep the theater safe by having his gun?
No.

He endangered the lives of everybody in there.
It may not have been his intention to do harm.

It was certainly not his intention to shoot himself in the leg.
But his gun went off, because that’s what guns do.

Gun accidents happen and the more guns are around, the more likely that is.
We see this played out again and again.

When pro-gun lawmakers push guns onto college campuses, teachers accidentally shoot themselves.
When they encourage people to bring guns to church, people accidentally fire their gun in church.

And when they tell gun owners to carry their weapons with them even during a children’s movie, they reach for the bucket of popcorn and end up with a bullet hole in their leg.

 
10881569_820865381306215_2366823048136314905_n.jpg
 
Ted Nugent? I do not think many people think like him.

If a LEO did what you said, maybe he shouldn't be carrying a gun? That is the attitude I do not like. He did something stupid. He had an accident. How many lives has he saved or helped as a LEO, though?

There are idiots all over the world asking all Muslims to kill Americans and Jews. Muslim shooter= Muslim shooter and nothing else. If he yells something? Extremist Muslim shooter....there may be more.

There are black on black shootings almost every day or night where I live. Black shooter= Black shooter and it is going to happen again tomorrow night.

White shooter? A white shooter is being profiled for a reason: tell me what it is if you will.

Like I said: more people die by texting while driving. Maybe they should be screened before having a phone? Make them take classes and fill out a Form 4473 before they can buy a phone.

A lot of this could be traced back to "Where were the parents?"
 
Ted Nugent? I do not think many people think like him.

If a LEO did what you said, maybe he shouldn't be carrying a gun? That is the attitude I do not like. He did something stupid. He had an accident. How many lives has he saved or helped as a LEO, though?

There are idiots all over the world asking all Muslims to kill Americans and Jews. Muslim shooter= Muslim shooter and nothing else. If he yells something? Extremist Muslim shooter....there may be more.

There are black on black shootings almost every day or night where I live. Black shooter= Black shooter and it is going to happen again tomorrow night.

White shooter? A white shooter is being profiled for a reason: tell me what it is if you will.

Like I said: more people die by texting while driving. Maybe they should be screened before having a phone? Make them take classes and fill out a Form 4473 before they can buy a phone.

A lot of this could be traced back to "Where were the parents?"


I think there should be a “kill switch” for cell phones in cars TBH (minus emergency numbers).
That’s also a false argument, it’s comparing two completely different things….even more people die from cancer…what is your point?
That we shouldn’t care about the number of people killed by gunfire because even more die from “X”?
That’s ridiculous and it also has nothing to do with mass shootings, specifically school shootings.
Just yesterday, (or today depending on where you live) some nut attacked teachers and students (with a sword and knives) at a university in Sweden….now hand that man a couple assault rifles, numerous handguns, all with nearly endless clips and ammo and you have a much, much deadlier attack.
These kids in many cases are basically suiciding themselves, so how is that different than a suicide bomber?
The reasons may be different but in both cases people can’t say they didn’t notice any warning signs…(yes, even suicide bombers have families that are hurt and can’t believe their own child would do such a thing.).
I posted that meme not to entice a response from you specifically just me, but because that is the mentality that many people seem to have.
There was no tag to you to mock or tease…you’re reading too far into things that aren’t there.
Also, I am sure the LEOs in both cases were fine people who did a fine job, I didn’t allude otherwise.
My point that seemed to be missed was that even the best trained people have accidents, intentional or otherwise - because we are human.
Have I seen surgeons make mistakes, you bet your ass - it comes with the territory, and if they aren’t absolutely perfect then people die - also something I have experienced. I’ve had to testify twice because a Doctor has screwed up and someone died.
Also, congratulations America!! We have reached a new standard!!!
http://time.com/4074648/toddler-gun-violence/

Yes, that’s right, a toddler shoots someone once a week in the US!!
So awesome…makes me a proud American!

So you are willing to do all these things to keep kids safe, like you just described about being screened for a phone…but we can’t have common sense laws in every state? Like a standard practice?
Perhaps we should just incorporate more gun safety songs into Sesame Street? We can send them to “Toddler Gun Safety Training” - I volunteer you to teach the course Just me.

Also again…the post with Ted Nugent, I made it pretty clear with what I wrote that this was the mentality of many in America, a lot of people DO listen to what flaps out of his pedophile mouth on Fox News…as if a washed up rocker has an intelligent viable viewpoint worth sharing solely because of his pseudo-celeb status and the wacky pro-gun shit he says?

Again, can we try to stay on the topic of mass shooting in America…because it’s happening more and more frequently you know.

harvard_timeline_1260.png


But I suppose Harvard and Mother Jones fudged the “truth” and everything is just dandy?
 
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Everyone here knows where I stand. They know where you stand.

Someone I don't know didn't say he had been overseas for our military three times grabbing bad guys at night. The damage someone like the guy I don't know could do somewhere would be unheard of here in the states. Maybe this imaginary guy knows what is coming our way better than most. I'd bet he is armed, if he even exists, to the hilt. I'd also bet all his pistols have trigger guard locks, WHICH IS A LAW IN THIS COUNTRY TO SELL A PISTOL WITH ONE. I'd bet he has guns in a safe. I'd bet he has children. I'd bet he would never leave a pistol in a cloth on top of the fridge without the lock. I'd bet he wouldn't put a pistol down long enough for a child to pick it up. I'd also bet he has at least one gun racked and ready at all times to protect himself and his family.

When the lights and power go out, the looting starts. Look that up in the history books and show the frequency of that. Nobody is safe and no property is safe. All it takes is a chance or another person to start it. Every home should be able to protect the lives there and their possessions. Guys with guns will rape a woman. It happens. The enemy is among us. Rage. Greed. Fright. No food. No water. No police. I don't condone the shootings. There is a difference in a shooter and a murderer. These people are murderers; call them what they are. Shooter blames the gun.
 
Today in Sweden a there was a sword attack in a school and two people were killed:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/22/europe/sweden-sword-attack/

We need to do something about the need to kill people. Whether it's guns or swords, the mind of a killer is a strain on society.

Even if you take away weapons and make it impossible to kill physically, you still leave the killer who will kill you mentally. They kill harmony. They can kill you emotionally and spiritually. They kill you with anger and hatred. It's like a death because it taints people emotionally and pollutes their potential to grow and be, so even though alive they're not the person they might have been otherwise.

Edit:
And actually I'd say all of us have been killed already. Some more than others.
 
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Murderers and mass murderings have indeed increased with the internet. However, the population has increased. The games people play on their digital whatever foment mass killings. The economy has gone backwards. There have been a lot of changes politically I don't like, and I attribute some of those changes to the situation also.If we look at all the details, we will have a more clear picture of the situation.

If I travel across a few states, I have to have a way to carry my gun. My permit may not be valid in other states. The law you mentioned was to protect legal gun owners from violating another state's laws. On a military base where I hunt, they have a list and I carry a copy of any guns I might hunt with including serial numbers. All ammo must be kept in back of the truck or in the trunk, apart from any and all firearms. The laws have good intentions and are not made for people to break laws.
 
Everyone here knows where I stand. They know where you stand.

Someone I don't know didn't say he had been overseas for our military three times grabbing bad guys at night. The damage someone like the guy I don't know could do somewhere would be unheard of here in the states. Maybe this imaginary guy knows what is coming our way better than most. I'd bet he is armed, if he even exists, to the hilt. I'd also bet all his pistols have trigger guard locks, WHICH IS A LAW IN THIS COUNTRY TO SELL A PISTOL WITH ONE. I'd bet he has guns in a safe. I'd bet he has children. I'd bet he would never leave a pistol in a cloth on top of the fridge without the lock. I'd bet he wouldn't put a pistol down long enough for a child to pick it up. I'd also bet he has at least one gun racked and ready at all times to protect himself and his family.

When the lights and power go out, the looting starts. Look that up in the history books and show the frequency of that. Nobody is safe and no property is safe. All it takes is a chance or another person to start it. Every home should be able to protect the lives there and their possessions. Guys with guns will rape a woman. It happens. The enemy is among us. Rage. Greed. Fright. No food. No water. No police. I don't condone the shootings. There is a difference in a shooter and a murderer. These people are murderers; call them what they are. Shooter blames the gun.

Murderers and mass murderings have indeed increased with the internet. However, the population has increased. The games people play on their digital whatever foment mass killings. The economy has gone backwards. There have been a lot of changes politically I don't like, and I attribute some of those changes to the situation also.If we look at all the details, we will have a more clear picture of the situation.

If I travel across a few states, I have to have a way to carry my gun. My permit may not be valid in other states. The law you mentioned was to protect legal gun owners from violating another state's laws. On a military base where I hunt, they have a list and I carry a copy of any guns I might hunt with including serial numbers. All ammo must be kept in back of the truck or in the trunk, apart from any and all firearms. The laws have good intentions and are not made for people to break laws.

Have I once said that responsible people shouldn't have access to guns?
The facts don’t lie…once a week a toddler shoots him/herself or someone else in America.
Maybe they are not responsible gun owners? I’ll bet you some think they are.
I have no problem with someone defending their home…once again, no one is trying to take your guns away…that is not my intention.
My intention is to have a set of common sense gun laws that are not loose in this state and tight is that one.
That we can at least require (everywhere) that folks get background checks…(because this isn’t required everywhere just fyi)
What do you have against that?
Are you scared you are going to be put on some registry that the government will use someday to take them away?
Our country clearly has some very serious societal problems…so I agree, that has always been part of the problem.
But shouldn’t we at least make an attempt to have nation-wide common sense requirements?
Safety training? (because once again, there are states that don’t require any)

I’m sure you are safe with your guns and your follow the state laws wherever you are - I never inferred otherwise so don’t make it sound like I did.

All I hear from you is - Fear, fear, fear.
 
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[MENTION=680]just me[/MENTION]

Just so you know too…
Your ALL CAPS POINT YOU WERE TRYING TO MAKE about gun locks being required.
Many states don’t have their own requirements either.

federal-header.jpg

In October 2005, as part of the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, Congress passed and the President signed into law legislation making it unlawful for any licensed importer, manufacturer or dealer to sell or transfer any handgun unless the transferee is provided with a secure gun storage or safety device.17 The law includes various exceptions, including transfers to other federal firearms licensees, law enforcement officers, and federal, state or local agencies.18 The legislation does not apply to transfers by private sellers, and does not require that transferees use the device.
The law also immunizes any person who is in lawful possession and control of a handgun and who uses a secure gun storage or safety device with the handgun, from a “qualified civil liability action.”19 “Qualified civil liability action” is defined as a civil action for damages resulting from the criminal or unlawful misuse of a handgun by a third party if: 1) the handgun was accessed by another person who did not have the authorization of the lawful possessor; and 2) at the time the handgun was accessed it had been made inoperable by the use of a secure gun storage or safety device.20
There are no current federal standards for locking devices.21 On January 16, 2013, President Obama signed a series of executive orders to address gun violence and school safety in the wake of the Newtown, Connecticut school massacre in December 2012. One of these orders calls for the Consumer Product Safety Commission to review the effectiveness of gun locks and gun safes, including existing voluntary industry standards, and take any steps that may be warranted to improve the standards. As stated by the President: “We also need to make sure that gun locks and gun safes work as intended. Several gun locks have been subject to recall due to their failure to function properly; that is not acceptable.”22
 
Perhaps restrictions could be placed on what caliber of gun can be owned, according to the type of intended use it is purchased for. Perhaps rifles should only be allowed for people who own rural property, or who have permits to hunt on state land?

Gun ownership is highly restricted in Australia. To own any semi-automatic rifle, you basically have to prove that you are a farmer, that runs livestock. Hand-guns are virtually impossible to own privately, except if stored and used at gun-clubs.
 
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Caliber doesn't matter as much as power/case length. And perhaps they should, but they won't.

Of course they won't. I'm no fan of over-regulation in any area, except when absurd situations occur. What on earth would an apartment-dwelling New-Yorker want a sighted rifle for, if not for some broad possibility that if it were ever used, it would be aiming at a person and not an animal?
 
Can we please address how the Brady Bunch is relevant here
 
Can we please address how the Brady Bunch is relevant here

Maybe this - http://www.bradycampaign.org?

But, yeah, he’s the king of being overly vague…and it’s once again off topic.
Yes, the group TRYING to prevent gun violence is the real bad guy here.
Makes sense.
 
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