INFJ & Enneagram

INFJ gender differences & enneagram 4s & 5s

  • 4w5 female

    Votes: 14 36.8%

  • 4w5 male

    Votes: 7 18.4%

  • 4w3 female

    Votes: 5 13.2%

  • 4w3 male

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 5w4 female

    Votes: 3 7.9%

  • 5w4 male

    Votes: 6 15.8%

  • 4w5 female

    Votes: 3 7.9%
  • Total voters
    38
Von Hase said:
From what I have read, most people have one main fear that drives their defense mechanisms and needs, but some of us have more. Most people are at their core a balanced Enneagram type. Some people have a strong wing, and others have two strong wings. Because my issues are so deep, my Enneagram personality traits are also very broad. This implies that there is a hidden connection to cognitive functions... not with respect to the order of our functions, because function order is unrelated to our fears, but to the degree to which we develop our functions since stress is the greatest factor in function development and stress is a byproduct of our fears.

This makes me consider the possibility that the width of someone's Enneagram base is proportional to how well developed their cognitive functions are.
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So, in other words, you test a wider range of enneagram bases? I've tested everything between 1-7 except for 6, I think...would that somehow be related to my cognitive development?
 
gloomy-optimist said:
So, in other words, you test a wider range of enneagram bases? I've tested everything between 1-7 except for 6, I think...would that somehow be related to my cognitive development?
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Only if you've been frequently faced with the fears upon which your Enneagram types are based, and therefore stressed to the point of developing your other functions. Having a broad range of Enneagram types might actually be a good reason why you have such a broad cognitive function base.
 
That's strange...I wouldn't think of myself facing a wide variety of fears...but that makes sense
 
my situation is...i am 4w5 (although i have not voted in the poll)
i relate to both (and of relative equality) 4 and 5.

i am rather confused, i am on INTPforum and am....i think INXP so 4w5 would be plausible
i talk with a person with a similar situation that has a theory that I (and her) are INJ's (based on Childhood personality, dominant function as child etc) and i relate more to the description of INJ than ITP or IFP - although i DON'T have any organisation either internally or externally.

so, what do you guys think. are you, as an INFJ, organised (in any way)? and if so to what degree?
is it possible i am INFJ? do i sound INFJ-ish?
do i sound INFP? or do i sound INTP?

anyway...
 
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So I'm a female who's enneagram is 9w1. As for the whole sexual preference, I prefer men, but I have been occasionally attracted to females for whatever reason. It very rarely happens but I would be lying if it I said it wasn't true. I don't really understand what the correlation is but I believe that that was part of the initial question right?
 
Thanks Von Hase that should come in handy :)

Seducer of the Homeless said:
my situation is...i am 4w5 (although i have not voted in the poll)
i relate to both (and of relative equality) 4 and 5.

i am rather confused, i am on INTPforum and am....i think INXP so 4w5 would be plausible
i talk with a person with a similar situation that has a theory that I (and her) are INJ's (based on Childhood personality, dominant function as child etc) and i relate more to the description of INJ than ITP or IFP - although i DON'T have any organisation either internally or externally.

so, what do you guys think. are you, as an INFJ, organised (in any way)? and if so to what degree?
is it possible i am INFJ? do i sound INFJ-ish?
do i sound INFP? or do i sound INTP?

anyway...
Click to expand...

it's possible for INTP to test as 4w5 and for INFJ to test as 5w4 though it's more common the other way round. in relation to the MBTI still think it has something to do with the degree of F/T and P/J. personally i test relatively low on F and J, having tested as INTP before. yet, i am an INFJ considering Ni is definately my dominant function and i do not readily use Te.

i don't quite understand what you mean by being organized...do you mean the usual definition of the word as planned, orderly, etc.? i'm not sure about how standardly organized INFJs are...possibly having a disorganized appearance externally, but knowing where everything is? possibly internally needing closure and categorization, yet fathoming an endless depth of possibilities?
 
It's weird to me how uncommon 3 and 7 are for INFXs -- those two have usually been one of my wings.
 
gloomy-optimist said:
It's weird to me how uncommon 3 and 7 are for INFXs -- those two have usually been one of my wings.
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According to the chart, you could be an ENFP, like Satya, hehe. 4w3's are quite common, and 7's are the most common. You've certainly got the cognitive functions for one.

My 1w2 status didn't seem to fit at all until I realized I was an ENFJ. Now I'm quite common and right in alignment with the chart.

Hehe, convert to the ambiverted extrovert side. We have cookies.
 
Von Hase said:
According to the chart, you could be an ENFP, like Satya, hehe. 4w3's are quite common, and 7's are the most common. You've certainly got the cognitive functions for one.

My 1w2 status didn't seem to fit at all until I realized I was an ENFJ. Now I'm quite common and right in alignment with the chart.

Hehe, convert to the ambiverted extrovert side. We have cookies.
Click to expand...

I can act pretty extroverted -- but I'm absolutely sure that, down at the base, I'm a tried-and-true introvert :) No doubt in my mind, really.

But upon review, I noticed that my twin sister is ENTJ, and my best friend of 8 years is ESTP, both of which have very common 3 and 7 traits, respectively...that might be it...
 
gloomy-optimist said:
I can act pretty extroverted -- but I'm absolutely sure that, down at the base, I'm a tried-and-true introvert :) No doubt in my mind, really.

But upon review, I noticed that my twin sister is ENTJ, and my best friend of 8 years is ESTP, both of which have very common 3 and 7 traits, respectively...that might be it...
Click to expand...

You know...

I have been neglecting the simple fact that people are malleable and easily influenced to a certain degree. Our attitudes and especially our perceptions are greatly influenced by those we care most about.

No one is going to perfectly fit any mold, but most importantly, no one is ever going to fit the same way all the time. We shift and change in reaction to our environments. We adapt. It's part of being human.

I am often more INFJ than ENFJ, but when I am ENFJ I seem to be more deeply ENFJ than I am INFJ when I am INFJ. I switch back and forth because I've learned how to switch my function preference to adapt to my situations. The simplest solution is that I'm both. That's really not that much of a stretch considering my Ni and Fe are always tied for preference on any tests I take.

I also seem to do the same with my Enneagram type. I am as much a 1 as I am a 9 as I am a 2 as I am an 8. Some days I'm more of a 1w2. Other days just a 1, other days a 1w9, or a 9w1, or a straight up 9, a 9w8, or even an 8w9 when I am extremely stressed, when I'm influenced by certain people, or a situation demands it.

Thanks Gloomy, for being as brilliant as usual, and reminding me that people are first and foremost adaptable creatures.
 
Von Hase said:
You know...

I have been neglecting the simple fact that people are malleable and easily influenced to a certain degree. Our attitudes and especially our perceptions are greatly influenced by those we care most about.

No one is going to perfectly fit any mold, but most importantly, no one is ever going to fit the same way all the time. We shift and change in reaction to our environments. We adapt. It's part of being human.

I am often more INFJ than ENFJ, but when I am ENFJ I seem to be more deeply ENFJ than I am INFJ when I am INFJ. I switch back and forth because I've learned how to switch my function preference to adapt to my situations. The simplest solution is that I'm both. That's really not that much of a stretch considering my Ni and Fe are always tied for preference on any tests I take.

I also seem to do the same with my Enneagram type. I am as much a 1 as I am a 9 as I am a 2 as I am an 8. Some days I'm more of a 1w2. Other days just a 1, other days a 1w9, or a 9w1, or a straight up 9, a 9w8, or even an 8w9 when I am extremely stressed, when I'm influenced by certain people, or a situation demands it.

Thanks Gloomy, for being as brilliant as usual, and reminding me that people are first and foremost adaptable creatures.
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Well, it was by no means a conscious brilliance, but thank you :B

I was actually thinking about this too -- I'm certain at the base, I'm INFJ. But if you looked at my lifestyle, you'd see an ENFJ, and I have the cognitive functions of an INFP, and an enneagram of an ENFP. And I often act more like my INTJ dad than my ENFJ mom.

I do think that enneagram, especially, has more to do with nurture than nature in comparison to MBTI...and I think the people around you have a lot to do with how you react to your fears and what causes them.

And I don't know what kind of point I'm trying to make, but I hope someone can get something out of that.
 
this may sound strange, but i can swear i was a 4w3 before this year came around. either that or i spent the past year as a very unhealthy 5w4...in other words with many 7 characteristics such as excessively indulging in emotional highs whether through caffeine, risks i wouldn't otherwise have taken in romance, donning on capriciously creative outfits, or amplifying my pain into charged poetry/writings etc.

i also was very competitive internally, though not explicitly in outward appearance. i needed to come on top in all areas important to me. furthermore, i emphasized the need for genuine relationships much more than i do now and literally lived through my emotions, constantly delving deeper and more wholly into relationships new or old. i was far more outgoing than i am now, and sometimes even flirtatiously whimsical.

as my real needs became more and more unfullfilled/neglected i became increasingly empty inside. during the past year, previous to joining this forum, there came a time, a pivotal point i had reached after exhausting all areas of my entire being. my heart was torn because i fell in love with someone i could not like, i was doing well in school yet felt depleted in the direction i was headed, and my emotional highs were not validating anymore (and never were truly of course). i lost a friendship of which i ended myself and becuase of the drama i had conjured, the traumatic character i had created out of my ego, i could not go on anymore like that. i was at the point of suicide.

in hindsight, i can recount what happened, yet i don't feel identified with that person anymore. something happened to me and i'm not sure words can explain it. all i know is that i made some remarkable and drastic changes from that point on as it literally forced me to look inward and be accountable to my inner being. i realized that death wasn't an abstract concept out there in the future somewhere and that it was right there in that moment facing me...that i wouldn't be going anywhere in that moment if i were to die, that i'd be receding into myself unconscious. so all in all i had to reach a breaking point before i came to understand what was most important.

ooops alright i really didn't intend to write this much.

the point is, since the Enneagram is a system, i'm not sure if you can change your 'natural' type due to traumatic or defining experiences. i'm not sure if mine did, but i remember taking the test and identifying with 4w3 before that all happened.
 
I've already read through that, and I didn't see anything specifically regarding 9w1 or 9w8 (all that's there are simple nicknames for each, no descriptions), otherwise I would've mentioned it before.
 
gloomy-optimist said:
Well, it was by no means a conscious brilliance, but thank you :B

I was actually thinking about this too -- I'm certain at the base, I'm INFJ. But if you looked at my lifestyle, you'd see an ENFJ, and I have the cognitive functions of an INFP, and an enneagram of an ENFP. And I often act more like my INTJ dad than my ENFJ mom.

I do think that enneagram, especially, has more to do with nurture than nature in comparison to MBTI...and I think the people around you have a lot to do with how you react to your fears and what causes them.

And I don't know what kind of point I'm trying to make, but I hope someone can get something out of that.
Click to expand...

Makes perfect sense. Actually that's why I like the enneagram in comparison to the MBTI. Not as static. Any one type, will eventually meet the other eight.
 
I think I'm a 9w1. I'm basically drawn to females, largely because they're easier to interact with (guys I find tend to want to "bro out" or not be in as much contact with their feelings; not that broing out is bad or anything). On top of that, I'm more likely to become infatuated with a girl based on her looks, while with guys, I just register that they're attractively handsome.

Back to the original question, I suppose my presentation is mixed and matched? This didn't sit well with my dad, who always comments that I'm too "girly". Part of that is natural, part of that was picking up on that aspect and deliberately shaping myself to be gender-neutral. I now understand the latter behaviour as being compensatory, so I'm less focused on being confusing and ambiguous now.

Hmm, additionally, I feel fairly "genderless", without identifying as transsexual. I think it's because my own self-image is fairly deviant from what I've inherited a "man" as being. This is still a fairly sore spot for me. Or it could be that I identify with being a child more, and "man" implies "grown", lol. And again, other people have picked up that I've got a fairly child-like aura, even while noting that I seem way older than my age. Go figure /shrug

Personality soup ftw :D
 
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